Roses Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 As ever, is concentrating on the negative side of things. This is what all journalists do to sensationalise things and make 'news'. These are the negative traits but it does not mean all people with personality disorders display all these traits - he is generalising and it is inaccurate and unethical. There should be a law against it as it is malicious slander really. If this was an article saying derogatory things about homosexuals or racial minorities - making generalisations about their behaviours it would be in court!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zora Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 So I'm a Cluster C personality "type" but I have lots in common with you guys - and NOTHING in common with my NPD mother.I know there's a lot of anger about this, and it seems justified, but it's impotent anger. This kind of thing happens from time to time and there's nothing anyone can do about jerks writing inflammatory articles like this.Well, there is one thing.Show our efforts to get better to those who know about us. That way when people we know and care about read an article like this they'll say to themselves, "Funny, that's not what Jane is like," and dismiss crap like this out of hand. The more people see us really trying, the less impact this drivel has in the long run.Thanks Andy but impotent anger is still anger. For me personally for my recovery, I have to feel it, not bottle it up.(Doesn't mean I'll let that anger become a negative force.)hairah xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eve-naive Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I liked the fact that he has an article to 'assist losers if they want to change their lives'. uuummm no thank you.Trying very hard to not feel like an evil entity at the moment. Some parts I see in myself, but it is not out of maliciousness, my T says I have to redress the see-saw because I have put myself on the bottom for all these years? Almost everyone says that I am kind and caring - my partner too when everything is on an even keel.It has taken me all this time to just start to see that everything isn't my fault and that I have been treated badly and that it wasn't deserved. This man seems to say that we are just behaviours and that we are responsible for those with no other factors playing a part - although he very lightly touched on PD parents creating PD children. I know that we have to learn to control and deal with our emotions and behaviours but s big part of that is being able to accept that we are not the result of our own evilness, but actually a product of learnt behaviour and coping mechanisms that saved us once and now are ruining things for us and others (I guess). I'm trying to write and my guts are knotting up because all i can think of is his comment on 'typically justifying all....' blah blah! Never mind read the likes before. eve-naive xxxxedited to say: There should be a law against it as it is malicious slander really. If this was an article saying derogatory things about homosexuals or racial minorities - making generalisations about their behaviours it would be in court!!Yay Roses! xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I never said to not feel the anger. If you feel anger you feel anger. The thing is, right now, there's nothing to be done directly with people like this guy unless we want to become activists and work for years for real change. That's potent anger. In the meantime, there are little things that we can do for ourselves that can affect our smaller, but much more important worlds. Showing people that folks with personality disorders are not losers, but are fighting something that was foisted upon us by a combination of genetics and rotten parenting is one big thing we can do. If we make progress, any progress, we are winners. And, as I said, articles like this pop up from time to time and the community here gets all up in arms about it. Fine, I totally understand. I would like to throttle that prick Rush Limbaugh for much the same reason. The good thing is we have a couple of things going for us. One of them I just mentioned. The other one is that, although we are obviously sensitive to articles like this and can pick them up out of all the noise generated by the media, most people are not paying attention. Frankly, they don't give a shit about personality disorders, especially if they don't know anyone who has one. They're blipping over this thing because, to name one issue, the oncoming Depression affects them much more directly. The potential loss of their jobs is much more interesting and, frankly, much more relevant to their lives, than some small group of people who have a hard time getting along with their families and friends. The sad truth is that we're not that important to most people--except those who have to put up with us.So take heart. If you're worried that articles like this affect people's perception of personality disorders, maybe your anger can be mitigated somewhat by the fact that, since no one is reading this, perceptions aren't really getting changed. Josh's book is titled "No One Knows." My experience is that No One Cares. (Hell, I don't care, but that's another issue altogether!) That can work for us and against us. This time it works in our favor.I know this is a kind of indifferent and laissez-faire attitude, but it works for me in the face of something like this. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zora Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Thanks Andy. Good insights. Sorry I inferred wrongly. hairah xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurorablues Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 he is generalising and it is inaccurate and unethical. There should be a law against it as it is malicious slander really. If this was an article saying derogatory things about homosexuals or racial minorities - making generalisations about their behaviours it would be in court!!I second that, this is so very trueAurora :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblepipi Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 This article has me in tears . am I really such a bane on society I've always tried to be there for people even when I was in Hossie because of the baby, it wasn't my child I could not look after myself. I have endeaveaoured to be kind and gentle all my life especially because I was treated so badly as a child. I can't bear it any longer to be the person that is the reason for unhappiness. This has made me feel like I need to cut the devil out. I don't know whether to head for the drink first or to pick up a knife and watch it all flow out. I am so sick of beng judged so sick of being everyones reason why everythings wrong. It just confirms my belief that I should not be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catspiracy Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Whilst the author has quite accurately identified some of the disturbing behaviours present in those with a personality disorder, he has offered very little, if any, explanation as to the root causes of those behaviours. So his analysis is one-sided, and almost completely ignores the founding causes of personality disorders. I am not so much insulted by the article as astounded by the willful ignorance of the one who wrote it.I was struck by that, too. He quoted the dsm and said that bpd is caused by having a personality disordered parent, but then spent tons of time talking about how we make other people crazy. Well, then aren't they just as "evil" as us if we made them the same kind of crazy? This is Victims Consciousness to the Nth degree. Every other word tells the reader that they are victims of personality disordered people (although as has been pointed out, he doesn't bother to add the word "people" to us, he just slings the label around, dehumanizing us further.) We were victimized when we were small children, continuously, throughout all of our developmental windows, until our identities were destroyed. Yet a consenting adult who chooses to spend time with us is OUR victim?It is my personal journey to transcend this Victims Consciousness stage. We are all responsible for the choices we make as adults. No grown up human being is a "victim" unless they conceive of themselves as one, and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm going to make a different self-fulfilling prophecy: I'm going to prove this "author" wrong by Transforming into my buddha self. NYAH NYAH NYAH NYAH!Let's not let this toxic spill of an article work its ugly magic on us. Let us rise above it, as Andy so eloquently described. I actually want to expand my compassion to form a bubble of white light energy around this sad example of a person, penetrate his ignorance and uplift him out of the darkness of his Victims Consciousness state. Ohm.cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catspiracy Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I never said to not feel the anger. If you feel anger you feel anger. The thing is, right now, there's nothing to be done directly with people like this guy unless we want to become activists and work for years for real change. That's potent anger. In the meantime, there are little things that we can do for ourselves that can affect our smaller, but much more important worlds. Showing people that folks with personality disorders are not losers, but are fighting something that was foisted upon us by a combination of genetics and rotten parenting is one big thing we can do. If we make progress, any progress, we are winners.I must say a Gratitude Affirmation regarding this excellent point:I am so grateful for ICU Baby's activism and legal acumen as she fights against the discrimination of bpd people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 It/s about how we, no sorry, I effect the people around me.Been to prison, on purpose, said I was homeless so I wouldn/t get bail, and be sent back to my father, but It broke my Mums heart.Nearly died from OD'ing, several times, never thought about what the effect that would have on my Mum and later my Hubby, and later still my children.Had row's with neighbours just because I was drunk and wanted a fight.Told my Mum that my half brother s/a me, without a thought for how it would effect her.Stay indoors for months because im so fucking anxouis I can/t do anything with my kids.Cling to my bed while the world goes on without me...how does this effect Hubby and kids?!Abused and lost freindships.Automatically think people hate me so give them the cold shoulder routine. (I/ll hurt you before you hurt me!)All this EFFECTS the people we are around.I live a selfish and useless life, feeding off my self-pity for all the 'nasty things' my brother and father did.The man is RIGHT....can/t you see that. I, as someone with B.P.D. am broken, if I were a dog, I'd be put down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catspiracy Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 It/s about how we, no sorry, I effect the people around me.Been to prison, on purpose, said I was homeless so I wouldn/t get bail, and be sent back to my father, but It broke my Mums heart.Nearly died from OD'ing, several times, never thought about what the effect that would have on my Mum and later my Hubby, and later still my children.Had row's with neighbours just because I was drunk and wanted a fight.Told my Mum that my half brother s/a me, without a thought for how it would effect her. ****(cat:) What about how s/a affected YOU??? your mom was supposed to keep you safe, so tough luck she has to hear the truth!*****Stay indoors for months because im so fucking anxouis I can/t do anything with my kids.Cling to my bed while the world goes on without me...how does this effect Hubby and kids?!Abused and lost freindships.Automatically think people hate me so give them the cold shoulder routine. (I/ll hurt you before you hurt me!)All this EFFECTS the people we are around.I live a selfish and useless life, feeding off my self-pity for all the 'nasty things' my brother and father did.The man is RIGHT....can/t you see that. I, as someone with B.P.D. am broken, if I were a dog, I'd be put down.If you were my dog, I would try to heal you with compassion, not continue to beat you. But you aren't a dog at all, you are a wonderful human being, frail and full of love and pain.If you didn't care and were "emotionally hollow", you wouldn't be in so much pain over your amazing confession, which took tons of guts to write. If you were as the author describes, you would be doing those things on purpose with a kind of glee. If this infuriating article somehow helped you to see that your pain affects other people, (which it does because we are all of us interconnected), well, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Increase the peace by decreasing your pain. If this article makes you s/h, then the ass that wrote it is getting a self-fulfilling prophecy and the entire world gets a little sicker. take baby steps into peace. it's true, human suffering is common coin and actually creates interference patterns in the global love vibration. Step away from the suffering and into healing!I am here to share my light with you.lovecat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crocus Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Seems to me he was just putting into words what everyone thinks about us anyway. Whether it's true or not, that's what they think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I did not like this article, because it is really unoriginal and negative.Firstly, I find most articles on personality disorders just recycle the same old crap, which originates from the DSM (the Doubtful Sham Manual of Mental Disorders). This is a system for labelling people, rather than listening to them. Some people like me have a disorder but don't fit into any of these categories. Others fall between several categories.It is also very negative. As others have said, it looks at personality disorders from the point of view of 'victims'. However, people with personality disorders are victims of their own disorder and need help.I don't think that there is enough understanding of personality disorders in the public domain, but when people produce this kind of biased rubbish it does not help. For example, he says in the summary at the end of the last article: “Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser”.. Personality disordered people can be capable of abuse, but they can be capable of many positive things as well. And, what is needed is understanding and help, not predjudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Shelley - I echo Cat's response. Love to you. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AveMaria Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 :lol: omg, the article was so off the wall I found it hilarious to read! First of all every person is totally different, its hard to lump together two similar people with bpd together let alone everyone with any personality disorder. The article doesn't even make sense. You can't lump together traits from totally different mh issues as if it is one person suffering from all of those things. He basically created a Frankenstein of personality disorder issues. If you have a member of your family that you hate to see arrive at a family reunion or holiday dinner — he or she probably has a Personality Disorder. Ha Ha, I think I need to get fliers made of this article I can hand out to my family when I go to family functions. Preferably with this part highlighted and blown up in large bold faced font. I hate seeing almost all of them... guess they are just one big family of pds, lol.When involved in any manner with a Personality Disorder — ...Many of our strategies must focus on protecting our emotional stability, our finances, and our other relationships...we must protect ourselves from their behaviors that might jeopardize our lifestyle and life. Yes exactly, when you unconditionally love and care for someone you focus on making sure that they don't inconvenience you or get in the way of your other relationships, lifestyle, or money.... ummm wtf? Is this guy running a cult teaching people how to make bpds miserable and yet have to suffer in silence as they are evil? Seriously, he needs to crawl back under the rock he came from. A**hole.The early identification of individuals who create unhealthy relationships can save us from years of heartache as well as damage to our personality, self-esteem, finances, and lifestyle. Hmmm nice to know. Now I just need to read about how I am a loser who is undeserving of any love, friendship, or respect in his "Identifying Losers in Relationships"...Weird I guess I am so bpd that I just manipulate the world to think that losers in a relationship are people who physically, mentally, emotionally, or sexually abuse you or people who just use you... nope its Specific techniques used by individuals with a Cluster B Personality Disorder can be found in another article entitled “Identifying Losers in Relationships”. Nice to know I am the monster I have always tried not to date. And if I get really ambitious I can also give his other article to my fiance so he understands that he is a victim who needs to leave me immediately... I have also addressed the issues associated with remaining in an abusive or dysfunctional relationship in an article entitled “Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser”.Thank you Dr Joseph M Carver, PhD. You are the reason people with bpd are discriminated against. The scariest part is on his own website. . I am currently in private practice and employed by the State of Ohio as the Psychology Supervisor at Ohio River Valley Juvenile Correctional Facility. I also provide expert witness testimony for the Social Security Administration. In May 2007 I became a Consulting Psychologist for Counselling Resource in Great Britain, Imagine the damage he is doing working at a Juvenile Correctional Facility! And I for one would definitely flee if he was used for expert witness testimony in anything concerning me. I like that he is spreading his filth and lies to all over the world, though. Nice of him, huh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AveMaria Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Btw, Shelley... his article was bs. Don't let it make you feel bad... not to mention that according to him that would prove you don't have a pd as they don't feel remorse or care about how their actions effect those around them. You are brave to post all of the things you see as issues that you have. From your list I can tell that you are brave, that you care deeply for your family and friends, that you have had to deal with a lot of pain in your life... yet still care about others. You are empathetic, caring, and very worthwhile person. You are not selfish, useless, or any other negative trait that you named. Don't let haters get you down. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crocus Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 If you’d like to leave a comment about relationships with losers, you might want to stop by our blog post on the topic, or submit a question for Dr Carver in his regular column, ‘Ask the Psychologist’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Sorry if I offended anyone. Just a bit of a rant really. Thanks for your comments. :bigarmhug[1]: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbid_qt Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Please excuse my language but holy fuck this guy went as far as to call us losers. Well, if he insists on spewing tripe about how terrible we are, I say that every borderline within a ten mile radius of that guy should get together and make his life a living hell. Since that's apparently all we're good for. What a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elke Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 There are many, many professionals who think this way. One thing I ran into was: If you meet someone you dont like, they are bound to have a personality disorder. I read an autobiography by someone with BPD and he spitefully titled it "My name is Borderline". I was on a site on stigmatization and they wrote that first line it comes from professionals.And Rose you talk about being called an Anti-christ. My ex-friend, who is BPD himself did an oil change on my car. He looked at the mileage and it was 666. He got scared and yelled "The Anti-Christ!!!" and I never saw him again. This is in-group stigmatization. I can understand a bit more now why he panicked and ran. Dont know whether to laugh about it or cry about it.Elke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 There are many, many professionals who think this way. One thing I ran into was: If you meet someone you dont like, they are bound to have a personality disorder. I read an autobiography by someone with BPD and he spitefully titled it "My name is Borderline". I was on a site on stigmatization and they wrote that first line it comes from professionals.And Rose you talk about being called an Anti-christ. My ex-friend, who is BPD himself did an oil change on my car. He looked at the mileage and it was 666. He got scared and yelled "The Anti-Christ!!!" and I never saw him again. This is in-group stigmatization. I can understand a bit more now why he panicked and ran. Dont know whether to laugh about it or cry about it.ElkeI would say look around here - in group stigmatization nowhere to be found Ignorance of what BPD is persists, and it may well do for some time. However research is showing that it is an eminently human, and treatable disorder. Just coming here is enough to see that humanity. If others choose to view it through the lens of "what does this mean for me" and react out of ignorance and fear, then they will continue in the frame of mind no matter what we say. The problem comes because in BP we belive we are bad, evil, dirty. That is almost the slogan of the damn disorder! So when others buy into it, so do we.That is why places like this are important - to get a sense of community. Looking round this forum, I do not see monsters. I see people who are hurting, and have been hurting for decades. I see people that need love and compassion. I see people for whom punishment, shame and rejection have not made changes - but instead have made them worse.Stigma, rejection, ignorance. People who display these traits are not going to be part of our recovery. We are attracted to them like moths to flame because they are repeating our mantra to us "DIRTY .. BAD ... EVIL". Invalidators, abusers, criticisers are what pull us in because its what we know. We need to see that in fact they dont even need attention paying to them. Like a bully, they only have power if we pay attention to them. Their words will never be a part of, or drive any part of our recovery - they serve absolutely no useful purpose whatsoever, and learning to dimiss them from our lives is a step towards the liberation we all need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elke Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Applaus humm-mabbe! :bigarmhug[1]: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilson Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I mean... I understand it's supposed to be centered on "our" "victims", but I still find it incredibly callous towards people suffering from a personality disorder. Perhaps I should stop surfing the web altogether. Anyway - good thing my self-esteem is in the gutter already, it can't get much lower anyway.http://counsellingresource.com/distress/pe...ding/index.htmlPS, can you tell me if refering to a person with a personality disorder as "a Personality Disorder" is standard in English? I mean in sentences such as "When involved in any manner with a Personality Disorder — as their partner, parent, child, sibling, friend, etc. — we must not only recognize their behaviors but also develop a strategy to protect ourselves". It's certainly not correct in my first language. Hey, I'm a person, not a disorder!I have read the article and read a number of the posts about it. My first thoughts while reading were strangely sympathy for this guy. It seemed to me that he was writing from the perspective of a small child who went through this, didnt get help and now can use adult words to describe and blame his home life. I cant find it in me to be particularly angry or upset about the article. It is only one article amongst many thousands that have been written. Some of the symptoms are true to me to varying degrees - some arent. I haven't had a diagnosis yet that fits absolutely perfectly.I'm not over-empathising, and I'm not triggered. I'm am just a bit saddened that he feels this way and wonder at the causes. He does not hold any authority over me or have the power to define who I am or how I will turn out. He just seems bitter, sad and angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 I would say look around here - in group stigmatization nowhere to be found Ignorance of what BPD is persists, and it may well do for some time. However research is showing that it is an eminently human, and treatable disorder.My mantra these days is this: The attempt to get better is exemplary; making progress, heroic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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