At What Point Do You Stop Caring For The Child-abused?

[Lance]

I've just finished watching a couple of youtube videos on child abuse, and it's fucked my day up to say the least. I got to the vids by accident really, started off watching some of this years comic relief shows and side links just carried me to them...

Other than the obvious graphical abuse, there was something else that started to turn my stomach. Comments such as "what's sad is that those kids will grow up to be abusers themselves one day" got me asking, at what point do we just stop caring for them and simply settle with the easier option of calling them monsters?

One of the most general views on abuse is that it either messes up the person so bad, they turn into the abuser themselves, or, they turn out to be the most loving person ever and wouldn't harm a spec of dust. Both true. But I ask, what about the people inbetween both? It's not as black and white as turn out good or turn out bad. What about the people that literally have to battle with themselves in order to stop their trail of thoughts leading to something terrible, because at heart, they absolutely DO NOT want to turn out that way? And if one day, just one moment of their lives, they actually acted out one of their disturbing thoughts, do they instantly become a monster? Does all care for them suddenly vanish? Even if they hate themselves to the point of suicide for doing such a thing, are they still a monster?

I appologise for my overuse of the word "monster". It's just easier to say than "disgusting, vile, fucked up waste of life piece of shit".

On these videos comments, the public have sooo much hatred towards the abuser and loads of sympathy and hope for the children. So my first questionable answer would be, perhaps it's age that defines the boundaries of being a monster? After all, they're just kids, they don't know any better, right? But once you're an adult, you gotta care for yourself, right?..........This disturbs me. The thought that once you're free from childhood, you have no rights to be affected by anything traumatic, but if you are, you better not let it control you otherwise you'll beome a monster....it turns my stomach. Adults still feel.

If a child is abused and begins to abuse others whilest still in childhood themselves, they would recieve lots of help. Although you still get people that like to call them SPOILT brats that deserve nothing. I say a big fuck you to people who say that. Yes they're spoilt, but not with love and gifts and money, but with the exact opposite. They deserve help. So why is it that adults don't get anywhere near as much help if they've mistreated somebody? I'm not simply talking about any adult in general, but particularly those that have suffered abuse themselves and have gradually been lead astray throughout their lives by it. Why do the public turn against them at this point?

Peace, Lance

[Lance]

........There's obviously a reason why I'm bringing this topic up and that's because I feel it reflects off of me quite a bit. Having spent my life with a sexual system re-routed to thoughts and fantasies that have forever haunted me, it has become the only way to release it from my soul for a short while. And because of this, I've had to grow up through childhood developing methods to maintaining the overballance of good over bad. These self-taught methods have saved me from the beginning, allowing me to live my life and appear as just a normal guy.

But as your age increases, your thoughts grow too, getting larger and much more of a burden. At 20 , I hit my first rock-bottom and had to start speaking about it. But after a solid year of help, I feel pushed closer to my limit than I've ever been before. The battle against bad thoughts is becoming harder and the releasing is becoming more aggressive. It feels like my kind-hearted soul is fading. I'm becoming snappy with people that don't deserve it, but then I beat myself up about it straight afterwards because it's JUST NOT ME. I spontaneously cry. I sit at my first school at 3AM believing I can talk to my childhood self, trying to fix things before they happen. I can't help but feeling that I've already lost control and that I'm just being desperate now, turning to irrational behaviour for quick fixes.

......But yet, I never show this side of me. The last remaining control I have over myself is to appear normal.

I have but one fear, and that's that one day, I will carelessly act out a thought. The fear of what would happen to me. What would people see me as. Would all the love I've spread throughout my life suddenly be void. Would I lose the right to be cared for, the right to recieve help. Would I be seen as the monster that made me who I am.

I want to be able to love and to care without fighting with myself to do so.

Peace, Lance

[roxy222]

just because abusers have been abused themselves does not mean because a victim of abuse will automaticly abuse others. techniqually one in eight abuse victims later become a perpetrator. I think if you also added up the number of abuse victims whose then grow up to be parents who look the other way when their child is abused under their roofs youd be looking at a higher number, but still much less than half. I think that when people burry their abusive childhoods, rather than face the horror, is when they grow up to replay the pattern. but that is no excuse, absoloutely when someone is an adult they have to take responsibility for their actions and I ahve no sympathy for adult peodos whatsoever, regardless of how horrific they history is. I was s/a from one onwards within a peado ring, and as an adult I never hurt children. In the past I have worked with children who were sexual offeneders and have often found that many are still very confused and hurting, and in need of care and protection, afetr all we have child protection laws beccause children are at risk because they do not have the ability to understand the consequences of their actions the same way an adult does. only a couple of kids I came across have had no remorse for their actions. a few have also had learning disabilities and I feel as adults they would continue to be in need of further care and help to prevent them from offending, because they genuinely would never beable to be resposnible for them selves. but even all of the kids I allways felt sympathy for and felt their offending was only becaus ethey were victims, once they are adults this no longer applies. compassion should allways allways lie with the child only. nothing excuses adult offenders, once adult its their responsibility to find help and not repeat the patterns. an adult is never helpless in the same way a child is, it is only children who truely never have choices.

[Lance]

Thanks for your response Roxy.

Indeed, it doesn't mean they become abusers, I wasn't implying that, sorry if it seemed that way.

May I try and explain something about myself here because I absolutely do not want to come accross as something I'm not with my posts, I feel that may be happening so I gotta recitfy this. When I say about fearing I would do something, it's not exactly what you would think. It's super hard for me to get that accross properly because I can't say what it is. Let me try and put this another way...

...It's not actually the fear of harming somebody, I absolutely would not do that. The fear is that I would somehow do something or say something that would make me out to be something else. Like, being cought whilest I'm talking to myself about it, trying to get it out of my system, people hearing the things I'm saying and twisting it into their own conclusion. I do have control and discipline over myself and my actions, but what seems to be fading is the awareness of how I'm coming accross to people. Since I started talking about myself over a year ago, I've become so trustworthy of people that I could now tell almost anybody about me. And that scares me because if I speak to the wrong person without fully explaining myself, then they get a completely incomplete and corrupt view of me. That hasn't happened yet, but that's what the fear is.

I also need to once again explain that my good ALWAYS out weighs any other thoughts or feelings. I'm very sensitive, very loving and caring and my passion towards passing on all of my good traits to a family of my own is huge. My ultimate goal in life is to be known as someone who is gentle, understanding and passionate about life and people. I want a family more than anything in the world. I would love to be father, a role model, be able to pass on my talents and knowledge and generally make somebodies life a happy one. That's me. That's Lance. What was on my mind during childhood, even though it was corrupt and groomed by a certain somebody, has ultimately made me a better person.

To be honest, I think I'm just too emotional about everything related to children and childhood. Everything. I mean, I see a kid in the street with his parents, I get tears in my eyes. I see a TV add for NSPCC and it throws me into depression for the rest of the day. If somebody jokes about child abuse in any way, I boil up in rage and just want to ram their head into a fucking wall (but I don't, because I'm not like that). When I cry out of the blue, it's just raw emotion, there's no specific reason behind it. If anything remotely connects to childhood, my heart instantly enflames.

*sigh*

Sorry for my big ass posts guys, I just don't talk about this to anybody so it builds up, you know? Come by my house right now and I'd be bubbly and full of life, smiling like I work for Colgate toothpaste. Thanks for reading anyways. I just hope that I have explained myself better this time.

Peace, Lance

[Roses]

This post has really upset me. Children are a blessing to be cherished. Adults have been through the education system and should be aware of basic rights and wrongs. If someone cannot distinguish between right and wrong then they need the appropriate support to ensure they are never in a situation to abuse another innocent. We all have a choice and if we cross that line we should be accountable for our actions no matter how old we are. I was sexually abused by my brother and he was only 11 when he started to assault me and continued to do it for four years. Should he walk away with no punishment?

[roxy222]

why do you tell anyone? why have you lost awareness of how you come accross? maybe if you look at these things then you'll beable to find more answers for yoruself

[Roses]

i don't understand roxy. have i upset you? sorry. xxx

[Roses]

If it was wrong of me to say that then I'm sorry everyone and I'll never mention it again. Also, if I am coming across in the wrong way would someone please let me know how as I've no wish to stay where I'm not wanted.

[Lance]

Roses, she was referring to my last post, not yours. You haven't done anything wrong.

On the other hand, I think I may have done wrong posting this topic? Why do I talk about it you ask? Well how about why should I keep quiet about it? It's the biggest part of my damn life and it tears me appart and I desperately seek help just like everybody else on this board. I talk to people because I feel that getting thoughts from other angles, other people, will help me see things in a different way. And it has helped, a lot.

God damn me and my fucking topics. I hate this HOUR EDIT LIMIT!!!!

Roses, I'm so sorry that I've upset you. I really didn't mean to upset anybody. I'm obviously saying things completely the wrong way AGAIN. I feel sick. Just get rid of the topic please, I won't bring this up any more. Shit. Fucking shit. Lynn where are you. I need you angel.

[Lance]

I've dug myself into a hole haven't I? I can't believe this. There's never any fucking easy way to talk about what affects me without it sounding how it does. I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG DAMNIT!

This has shit me up big style. I don't want this to be publically displayed anymore. Get rid. Pleeeeease get rid. I can't do this anymore now. Upsetting one person is more than enough to feel like shit.

[Roses]

Lance I'm sorry. I was upset by by the subject not by you. I find the whole subject upsetting that doesn't mean it doesn't need to be talked about. You should say what you want and to hell with it. I am not offended by you in any way shape or form. Please, I understand what you are saying and we all get bad thoughts the difference is that most of us (like yourself) don't act on them. xxxxx

[Tammy]

This is a hard thing to talk about im sure...Question- Are you afraid that what happened to you as a child, you will mimic as an adult? Or are you saying you will come across that way, and people will assume just that? Just because it happened to you...(Does that make sense?)

[Benway]

Lance, you are one creepy individual.

i could say much more, but i won't.

[Lance]

Tammy, to be honest I'm afraid of doing anything! I'm afraid of talking about it because of how I come accross and how I'm misunderstood. I'm afraid of the thoughts themselves and the damage they've done. I'm afraid of finding out whether the cock face that did this to me turns out to be my biological dad when I get those test results.

But you know what upsets me the most? It's how much all of this has seriously hindered my chances of achieving my goals. Don't ask me for details as of why because I don't wanna go there. How am I supposed to find somebody who would happily start a family with me after I tell them about myself and what troubles me?!

I won't ever harm anybody, I'm pretty certain of that. But the fear is still there. And it's so easy to say "well you only have thoughts Lance, that doesn't mean you won't act on them". No, but I DON'T WANT THESE THOUGHTS IN THE DAMN FIRST PLACE! It depresses the shiiiiiiiiit outa me! I don't want to have to release these thoughts all of time just to get them out of my system for couple hours. I don't want to be raising a family with these thoughts still in my head! Sure, I won't ever do anything to harm anybody else but what about the harm they're causing me?!

Curse him to the deepest depths of hell for corrupting me. I had a great little brain, great talent and a great future. He stole that from me!!!!!

[Lance]

Lance, you are one creepy individual.

i could say much more, but i won't.

Oh that's just great. Anybody else want to join in?

[Roses]

I get intrusive thoughts and it is common in people who have been abused. We question ourselves because we care, it is the heartless individuals who think it's ok that hurt all the people around them.

[Lance]

I get intrusive thoughts and it is common in people who have been abused. We question ourselves because we care, it is the heartless individuals who think it's ok that hurt all the people around them.

Indeed. This is all true. That's why I still have a certain level of respect myself in this very sense.

Lance, you are one creepy individual.

i could say much more, but i won't.

I actually want to say that it's the topic that's creepy, not ME, which is precisely what I was saying. I can't talk about this without it sounding completely frigging bizarre. And I would love to hear you elaborate some more as your shallow single liner of a reply is quite hurtful.

[Roses]

These forums are intended to offer help and support not to belittle other peoples feelings. I find Absynths comment inappropriate and suggest you just ignore it Lance. xxx

[Lance]

Thanks a bunch Rose.

Peace, Lance

[Crocus]

Interested in this topic but wasn't going to reply just read, but then I saw that horrid response and though I should at least pop my head in and offer my support to lance. Ignore what he said, it's cruel and has no intention but to upset you.

[shed]

Tammy, to be honest I'm afraid of doing anything! I'm afraid of talking about it because of how I come accross and how I'm misunderstood. I'm afraid of the thoughts themselves and the damage they've done. I'm afraid of finding out whether the cock face that did this to me turns out to be my biological dad when I get those test results.

But you know what upsets me the most? It's how much all of this has seriously hindered my chances of achieving my goals. Don't ask me for details as of why because I don't wanna go there. How am I supposed to find somebody who would happily start a family with me after I tell them about myself and what troubles me?!

I won't ever harm anybody, I'm pretty certain of that. But the fear is still there. And it's so easy to say "well you only have thoughts Lance, that doesn't mean you won't act on them". No, but I DON'T WANT THESE THOUGHTS IN THE DAMN FIRST PLACE! It depresses the shiiiiiiiiit outa me! I don't want to have to release these thoughts all of time just to get them out of my system for couple hours. I don't want to be raising a family with these thoughts still in my head! Sure, I won't ever do anything to harm anybody else but what about the harm they're causing me?!

Curse him to the deepest depths of hell for corrupting me. I had a great little brain, great talent and a great future. He stole that from me!!!!!

have you ever had the chance to talk through what happened and the thoughts you have? i was abused for years and have a lot of intrusive thoughts. i think i am super sensitive to some things that others find normal. i have two children and the thought of any-one harming them in any way just makes me burn, and i am sure you will feel the same with your children. you have these thoughts because of what you have been through, not because you are bad. i was always being told i was sick in the head because i asked my mum if the thoughts i had were normal. you learn pretty quick to keep your thoughts to yourself. i hate it when people talk about there first sexual experiences or dating or teenage stuff because i can't relate to it at all. my first experience was at four. it is so hard to grow up not being able to talk, having to hide things and pretend everything is normal. it has screwed me up big time but i have always tried to give my kids a normal healthy upbringing and am very open with them about anything they want to talk about.

sorry you are suffering like this, i hope you can find some peace xxx

[roxy222]

i don't understand roxy. have i upset you? sorry. xxx

no that was a question for lance, sorry, I must have posted at the same time as you.

I was abused by children also. but I think children replay what has happend to them. whenever there is a power imbalanvce within the relationship there is risk of abuse, and parents should supervise siblings better. I think thats your brother was wrong, but also that he wouldnt have understood the seriousness of what he was doing and thats the adults fault.

[roxy222]

Roses, she was referring to my last post, not yours. You haven't done anything wrong.

On the other hand, I think I may have done wrong posting this topic? Why do I talk about it you ask? Well how about why should I keep quiet about it? It's the biggest part of my damn life and it tears me appart and I desperately seek help just like everybody else on this board. I talk to people because I feel that getting thoughts from other angles, other people, will help me see things in a different way. And it has helped, a lot.

God damn me and my fucking topics. I hate this HOUR EDIT LIMIT!!!!

Roses, I'm so sorry that I've upset you. I really didn't mean to upset anybody. I'm obviously saying things completely the wrong way AGAIN. I feel sick. Just get rid of the topic please, I won't bring this up any more. Shit. Fucking shit. Lynn where are you. I need you angel.

I asked why you talk about it to anyone,not talk about it in general. I spend alot of time discussing my abuse, but I think i find people who are trustworthy first. I went through a stage as a teenager of telling anyone, it was a way of throwing my feelings away rather than dealing with them. it also left me at risk. I would tell a stranger on a bus, they no doubt saw how vulnerable I was then and often I have been manipulated by others when I was still at that stage. the fact that i did behaved in this way revealed more truth for me, it helped me see how badly my mother took care at me, that i was almost constantly s/a by so many because my mother had so little regard for my feelings or wellbeing, and that was a pattern I carried within myself, shown in part by talling anyone. in hindsight it felt like I was prostituting my feelings (im saying this about me, not you) which was ofcourse what my mtoher did to me my whole life. finding this out, undertsand what consequences it had on my life, helped me face my feelings and be less at risk. and I dont think this is a bad topic, most people with mental helath problems have some history of abuse, and most abuse victims are abused in more than one way so this is no doubt very relevant for many.

[roxy222]

Lance, you are one creepy individual.

i could say much more, but i won't.

Oh that's just great. Anybody else want to join in?

no I think thats horrid and I dont think that at all

[successful_workthru]

To Lances post

Warning to to members! - possible Trigger, please click off if affected.

In all other cases, please scroll down.

'Sciuse my naivety, but are you saying there is paed0 p0rn on Youtube, and if so, what't it doing there?

I would be back on the psych ward if I had come across a nonced up video on Youtube, trust.

If you mean, videos on documentaries, and programmes addressing the problem, and not p0rn itself, then I apologise now, for misunderstanding.

Acting out and acting in, respectively are dysfunctional behaviours.

The abusers are obviously acting out, and identifying, albeit unawares, with their abuser.

Acting in, involves rage turned inwards, addiction, depression, etc, all still destructive.

As to why some people act out, is dependent on many different factors.

I think personally, acters out, (those who's abuse unresolved sequelae affect others adversely) dissociate while they are abusing. They somehow separate in their minds the emotional impact of what they are doing. Many more are so dissociated from their original pain that empathy is blocked.

They may have been abused while the personality is developing, and so empathy is blocked off.

NOTE, dissociation can happen with acting in as well.

Anyone who acts out, and affects others is potentially harmful, not just sex abuse.

To show remorse, remorse has to be felt. It has to be felt deeply, and not just a superficial show, to gain sympathy from punishment.

When someone imposes their will on someone else, we have the beginnings of dysfunction.

All victimizers were once themselves victims.

I feel angry that some victims are not helped at the right time, so become victimizers.

I feel cross at society for failing them.

Monster? bully? any form of negative behaviour from one person to another is wrong, no matter how old or young the perpetrator.

Obviously for young kids abusing other kids, the young perpetrator may be acting out, and is an obvious case for urgent requirement for therapy.

This intervention is often not available though.

Society swept such things under the mat for so long.

Adults who have been abused as children have as much right to therapy for their pain, as they did when they were kids, and may never have had the opportunity for it.

Adults who have not abused kids, but have been abused themselves, deserve help, as do the adults that act out.

We have every right to be revolted by their behaviour, but better to heal them, than to let them roam free.

Punishment does not work, as it is often punitive relationships that have focked them up in the first place.

When adults act out abuse on kids, who cannot defend themselves, this is contemptible behaviour. This is what the public hate, attacking defenseless vulnerability, and corrupting life itself.

Maybe society condemns them for not getting help for them selves earlier, as in therapy, etc.

The thing is, the abuser is not likely to come foreward for help in abuse mode, as he or she, is scared to.

Your thoughts power only grows with age, if you repress the impulses and do not address the original trauma.

Maybe this is not remembered by lots of abusers. It needs to be retrieved from memory into consciousness to be healed, and the thoughts wont grow.

Unaddressed unconscious material out of our awareness, manifests itself as intrusive thoughts.

Appearing normal often comes at the expense of inner turmoil.

Cry your tears, feel your feelings, and most of all get help.

No other human should be affected by our own bad experiences, whether we are aware of these experiences or not.

Find an outlet, a healthy, healing, and most of all, a harmless outlet for these thoughts.

You sound like you have the self awareness not to act out these thoughts, but you do need urgent care and help, and I dont mean a psychiatrist couch or a bottle of medication, I mean real healing therapy.

I congratulate you on your post, as it takes courage, and I thank you for raising the subject, but the bottom line is harm prevention for the future, and real healing for the past.