Murder Of James Bulger, Remember Him?

[Lance]

OK this is again quite a strange topic, but I guess you've already agreed that you're ready for it by opening a topic started by me, lol...

Aaanyways, quite a serious one from me.

Please take note of these trigger warnings because it contains graphic descriptions of a murder which are quite disturbing. I have to say it how it is because it relates to how it makes me feel, which is the point in this topic. Just be warned.

:trigger: :trigger:

Something that has been circulating facebook recently is a very outdated petition of justice about a murder that happened in 1993, so yeah, quite outdated. But for some reason, it's started circulating again.

Why am I making a topic about this? Well the reason is because of how it has affected me and actually uncovered new memories and feelings from my own past. I didn't expect this at all...

Yesterday, shortly after I posted my other big topic, I checked facebook and saw that this petition had been sent to me. And it asked if I remembered the murder. I vaguely did, I was only 6 at the time. The murder was of a 3 year old boy by two 10 year old boys. It happened in 1993 in Liverpool, England. After reading that, I began to remember it a bit more and a bit more. So I carried on reading only to read what actually happened to him. Don't continue reading if you don't want to know...

James (the victim) was in a shopping center with his mum when he suddenly went missing. He was abducted by two 10yr olds who led him out of the building and on a 2 and a half mile walk. Along the way, he was crying for his mum so they tried to shut him up by shaking him, dragging him, throwing him around and even kicking him in the ribs to get him to carry on moving. They carried on and eventually came up a grass embankment near some train tracks. There, they tortured him for no fucking reason at all. They threw paint in his eyes, threw stones and bricks at his face, stuck batteries into his mouth, inserted objects into his body and even chopped off some of his fingers with scissors. They eventually hit him with a metal bar which killed him. But to make it look like an accident, they put his body on the train lines and two days later, he was found in two pieces. He was 3.....

The petition described most of the above. I didn't expect to suddenly read something that graphic. It shook me up big style. But what started to bother me was how triggered I suddenly felt. There was no picture of him on the petition, but I somehow had this vivid photo of him in my head. So I quickly went on google to search for him and wow.....it was almost the exact same picture as I was remembering. I DID remember this story and it had significant meaning to me.

After I saw the photos, I got a rush of a significantly large clump of childhood memories come back to me. I was only 5 or 6 when the murder happened, but the photo I remembered was the one I saw in the newspaper at that time. I remembered how my mum and sister had just finished reading it and were discussing it after they put the paper down. I then picked it up myself and started looking at thie picture of him and listening to what they were saying, how he was killed and such. And I remembered reading the headlines and bold captions, saying how he was tortured, and I didn't know what that word even ment. But I was sooo engrosed in this story and I kept thinking about how somebody could die at that age because they're not old enough yet...

...then I remembered bringing the newspaper to my face and gently kissing his picture to send my love to him

I remembered also how long it was on my mind after that. I would think about him so much. I would look at my own friends and imagine them dying suddenly and feeling upset just at the thought.

I spent the whole last night researching official court hearings, videos and news reports from when it happened. I felt as attached as I was when I was 6. And after recalling so much emotional memory from my past, I just wanted to get more and more. I'm now left wondering if this incident was a significant part of how my mind started to go off track when I was younger. That is probably the very first memory I have of feeling so much sympathy and love for a child. Could this have actually played a part?

The way I see it now is that, because I didn't understand why somebody would do those things to somebody else, I kept on thinking about them over and over to try and figure it out, thus starting some kind of obsession. And the fact that I felt so sorry for him was the start of a strong emotion to children that suffer. It makes so much sense to me. I'm not saying this is THE cause of everything because there are things that happened to me personally. But I'm actually now believing that there may have been multiple things in my head at the time that all merged into one eventually.

What do you guys think? This is like a breakthrough for me. I feel so strange.

Peace, Lance

[Wobbles]

Hi Lance,

I've been reading your posts, and am grateful for them, and for you for having the courage to bring them to light, allbeit online, in the virtual world. Your last thread, i've not commented on yet as i need to do some more processing, you've hit a raw nerve as i relate very much to you and what you're saying in it.

However, this latest thread, my thoughts are these.

Things happen in our childhood, whether it directly to us or to those closest to us, or indirectly to someone we've never met before, such as Jamie Bulger. I too have done a lot of research and reading about this incident, and several other similar ones. I think it is important for you to validate for yourself the impact that such an event had on you at such a young age. Since becoming a member on this forum, and seeing my T, one of the major things i'm learning is to realise the impact that such events have had on me, in my childhood. For example, when i was 11, my next door neighbour was 12, walked down the road to the shops, and was picked up by someone, taken out to the bush, raped, murdered and wrapped in plastic. I don't remember much, but i do remember being terrified that someone was going to come and murder me. I was afraid of the dark, couldn't go anywhere in the house by myself, and it's something i still think about now. A few weeks later i found out that a girl i used to go to school with, was walking to school, grabbed by a man, raped and killed, and thrown into the river. I was convinced i was next. And thinking about this has just triggered another memory, one of me being petrified from a very young age that a man would come to my bedroom window and murder me.

Another event that took place in my childhood that has had a deep profound effect on me is this: (I don't remember the event, all i remember is the re-occuring dream i went on to have for many years and still remember now) I was very young, maybe 2 or 3 apparently, and a man stole a tank from the nearby army barracks. He drove around causing havock for a few hours, followed by police, and drove down our street, up to the top of it, and shot himself in the head. As i said, i don't remember th event, i do remember the dream i had which was horrific. And to this day, the sound of a car engine idling, sends me into sheer panic! I'm guessing because the sound of the tank tracks on the bitumen road is somewhat like an idling engine.

You may not have known Jamie Bulger personally, or knew anyone that did, but it is perfectly acceptable that his murder had a profound effect on you, that is still with you today.

Enough rambling from me, xx

[roxy222]

OK this is again quite a strange topic, but I guess you've already agreed that you're ready for it by opening a topic started by me, lol...

Aaanyways, quite a serious one from me.

Please take note of these trigger warnings because it contains graphic descriptions of a murder which are quite disturbing. I have to say it how it is because it relates to how it makes me feel, which is the point in this topic. Just be warned.

:trigger: :trigger:

Something that has been circulating facebook recently is a very outdated petition of justice about a murder that happened in 1993, so yeah, quite outdated. But for some reason, it's started circulating again.

Why am I making a topic about this? Well the reason is because of how it has affected me and actually uncovered new memories and feelings from my own past. I didn't expect this at all...

Yesterday, shortly after I posted my other big topic, I checked facebook and saw that this petition had been sent to me. And it asked if I remembered the murder. I vaguely did, I was only 6 at the time. The murder was of a 3 year old boy by two 10 year old boys. It happened in 1993 in Liverpool, England. After reading that, I began to remember it a bit more and a bit more. So I carried on reading only to read what actually happened to him. Don't continue reading if you don't want to know...

James (the victim) was in a shopping center with his mum when he suddenly went missing. He was abducted by two 10yr olds who led him out of the building and on a 2 and a half mile walk. Along the way, he was crying for his mum so they tried to shut him up by shaking him, dragging him, throwing him around and even kicking him in the ribs to get him to carry on moving. They carried on and eventually came up a grass embankment near some train tracks. There, they tortured him for no fucking reason at all. They threw paint in his eyes, threw stones and bricks at his face, stuck batteries into his mouth, inserted objects into his body and even chopped off some of his fingers with scissors. They eventually hit him with a metal bar which killed him. But to make it look like an accident, they put his body on the train lines and two days later, he was found in two pieces. He was 3.....

The petition described most of the above. I didn't expect to suddenly read something that graphic. It shook me up big style. But what started to bother me was how triggered I suddenly felt. There was no picture of him on the petition, but I somehow had this vivid photo of him in my head. So I quickly went on google to search for him and wow.....it was almost the exact same picture as I was remembering. I DID remember this story and it had significant meaning to me.

After I saw the photos, I got a rush of a significantly large clump of childhood memories come back to me. I was only 5 or 6 when the murder happened, but the photo I remembered was the one I saw in the newspaper at that time. I remembered how my mum and sister had just finished reading it and were discussing it after they put the paper down. I then picked it up myself and started looking at thie picture of him and listening to what they were saying, how he was killed and such. And I remembered reading the headlines and bold captions, saying how he was tortured, and I didn't know what that word even ment. But I was sooo engrosed in this story and I kept thinking about how somebody could die at that age because they're not old enough yet...

...then I remembered bringing the newspaper to my face and gently kissing his picture to send my love to him

I remembered also how long it was on my mind after that. I would think about him so much. I would look at my own friends and imagine them dying suddenly and feeling upset just at the thought.

I spent the whole last night researching official court hearings, videos and news reports from when it happened. I felt as attached as I was when I was 6. And after recalling so much emotional memory from my past, I just wanted to get more and more. I'm now left wondering if this incident was a significant part of how my mind started to go off track when I was younger. That is probably the very first memory I have of feeling so much sympathy and love for a child. Could this have actually played a part?

The way I see it now is that, because I didn't understand why somebody would do those things to somebody else, I kept on thinking about them over and over to try and figure it out, thus starting some kind of obsession. And the fact that I felt so sorry for him was the start of a strong emotion to children that suffer. It makes so much sense to me. I'm not saying this is THE cause of everything because there are things that happened to me personally. But I'm actually now believing that there may have been multiple things in my head at the time that all merged into one eventually.

What do you guys think? This is like a breakthrough for me. I feel so strange.

Peace, Lance

hey, I also remember jamie bulger very clearly, and allways have as through past work I have known where one of the murders has been incarsirated a and where he is now. so It never left my mind.

as for how this effected you, how it may have impacted on your childhood, consider the following

who did you have to talk to about this murder?

who listened to your concerns?

who cared about your feelings?

were you able to voice your thoughts about this?

were you listened to?

what responses were you given?

how did you feel about these responses?

did this help you reconcile what had happened?

did this help you understand your feelings about this murder?

did this help you gain perspective?

did this help you find renewed security?

we cant control the outside world, or its effects on us, but it is our parents job to help us with our feelings, to support us i our fear and to be there through out our confusion. I think that when children recieve this type of parenting they are less at risk of damage by out side events. and I think your obsession (for want of a better word) over this murder at that time would be an indication of unresolcved, unrecognised feelings about the parenting you recieved.

hope this helpsx

[Lance]

Thanks a lot you guys.

Roxxy, the answer to your questions would be "nobody" and "no" respectively. I don't question my parenting as to why I am how I am. I used to try and figure things out on my own. There's no way they could have picked up on this kinda stuff. I only lived with my mum from that point onwards anyway. I'm not going into details about all of that though as I've already said it before. I used to talk about a lot of things to adults, but never about what deeply affected me or confused me.

By the way guys, it's James not Jamie. His mum used to annoyed when he was refered to as Jamie as it was never his name. Just thought I'd say.

And Roxxy, you say you know where one of them is? Daaamn... Where? Heh, just kidding. I bet that feels strange to know though.

Peace, Lance

[Lance]

Jeese guys I've been thinking about this some more and sooo much of me is linking back to that. Even when I finally reovered memories of Simon and what he did, I always said that I feel as though there is STILL something else missing, even though that seemed like the cause of everything. Dates of events occuring didn't match up properly with my age and other memories so there was obviously something else in play that I didn't know of...

This is now my current conclusion, and believe me, I feel more complete than ever before. Something minor was done to me before the James incident, It wasn't an attack, but I know what it was and who it was. That then made me a little protective about it happening again, but my past photos show that I wasn't all that good at it. (Very cryptic I know, sorry but I wanna keep this short).

...I've always struggled to believe that just that moment was enough to spark such a life changing chain of events which led to all of this. Then I rediscover this murder, and suddenly I think I feel that I've found the most significat piece to my puzzle yet, if not the last one.

Like I said in the first post, it shook me up a lot. I felt so bad for him and kissed his photo to make him feel better. That was the first time I had ever shown and felt such feelings for a young child. I wanted to protect him but it was too late you know? I believe that was what triggered the snowball of care I have today.

...And then when I was reading the headlines, I remember reading the word "torture" and I just didn't know what that ment. I could understand that he had died and was beaten and such, but that word stuck in my head and confused me. And you know what? For the first 19 years of my life, I could never EVER speak that word out loud or even type it. I feared it and it still makes me uneasy just typing it. Isn't that weird? I never knew where that came from but jeese, surely it can't be a coinsidence?

...And now the biggest part. Like I said, I tried to figure out why this could happen to a young boy, why somebody would want to do that, just why. And I believe that because this played in my mind for so long, this is where my first fantasies and visions began. But because I was too young to imagine the details of what they did...I instead blended these thoughts with the incident that happened to me. THIS is the combining moment. THIS is what I've been trying to uncover. Something that turned what happened into an obsessive state of mind.

So age 5 or 6 is when the snowball started rolling. Trying to understand why led to disturbing thoughts and reinactments in my own head. These would continue to grow and grow and shift in their detail until they're finally as they are today.

...And the good side of me? Well that came from the sympathy I felt, the raw feeling of wanting to help him. How it made e fear something happening to my friends and wanting to protect them. And as I grew through childhood, the age remained the same. I still wanted (want) to make sure no harm ever comes to children. The deep deep emotions I feel about them. And the aweful thoughts are my brain still trying to figure out my first question as to why it could happen. And the more I have those thoughts, the stronger my will to love becomes.

And that, is me. Wow. I honestly can't describe how this makes me feel. It's mixture between pure excitement but also tears of sadness because of the irony of it all. All these years of having to cope with these immense emotions and it has come to an end with being affected once again by the very story that started it. And if it wan't for somebody randomly sending me that petition and triggering my memory of it, I would have never known.

Peace, lance

[roxy222]

Thanks a lot you guys.

Roxxy, the answer to your questions would be "nobody" and "no" respectively. I don't question my parenting as to why I am how I am. I used to try and figure things out on my own. There's no way they could have picked up on this kinda stuff. I only lived with my mum from that point onwards anyway. I'm not going into details about all of that though as I've already said it before. I used to talk about a lot of things to adults, but never about what deeply affected me or confused me.

By the way guys, it's James not Jamie. His mum used to annoyed when he was refered to as Jamie as it was never his name. Just thought I'd say.

And Roxxy, you say you know where one of them is? Daaamn... Where? Heh, just kidding. I bet that feels strange to know though.

Peace, Lance

but parents should know whats going on with their kids, its their job to build a safe relationship where children can tell them. just cause they dont know doesnt mean its any kind of excuse.

when I say I know where, I mean roughly, Im no where near there and know through work contacts. thats all.

maybe your care and empathy for him was your way of feeling for what you had been through, but didnt have a way of adressing safely.

I used to get hooked on lots of similar things within the news, kids going missing, plus suicides etc too. this case, the kids robert black took (case that was near where I grew up), the rachel nickle case, ted bundys victims (read the stranger beside me when I was only v little), plus kurt cobains suicide, river pheonix's death, ritchie edwards disappearance, the many writers who died young despite having such amazing insights, all of this really was much more to do with me than them. it was a way of safely addressing lots of confusing and difficult feelings I had that I had no safe way of dealing with on my own as a child while I was so helpless and at risk and v much on my own with these feelings. but thats kinda the point, no child should be on their own with their feelings, my being drawn to these things was because I had so much hell going on at home and I indentified with these victims because it was safer to feel empathy and agony for them than it was to feel it for myself. If I had felt it for myself that would mean facing how at risk I was while still a little kid, and no child can live with that reality, we all have to build up rationaliations as children to help ourselves survive unbearable situations.

[Wobbles]

They've both been sent to Australia as far as i know, with new identities.

[Lance]

They've both been sent to Australia as far as i know, with new identities.

That was a rumour because of somebody looking like them over there. But who knows.

Peace, Lance

[roxy222]

They've both been sent to Australia as far as i know, with new identities.

not true, or atleast it wasnt as off this time last yr

[Wobbles]

Well there ya go, learn something new everyday.

Good to hear you've realised the significance of this event Lance. Hope it's only forward moving from here.

[Rael]

finding it hard to put into words what i want to say but i guess the gist of it is i am glad that you have found something that helps you work things out.

take care

xxx

[Lance]

finding it hard to put into words what i want to say but i guess the gist of it is i am glad that you have found something that helps you work things out.

take care

xxx

Thanks Rael. I am too. Take care yourself too. Xx

What an emotional fews days these have been.

Peace, Lance

[Lance]

I have just discovered what seems to be a very interesting book about this whole murder case. It is written by a man who asks "why" it happened and delves into childhood innocence and how one child could kill another.

Read the description for more info:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/As-If-Blake-Morrison/dp/1862070458

As quote by one of the user feedback comments:

"I came away with a sence of shame, at being an adult and for allowing other adults to band together and not see that it was in fact our fault that James got killed, read the book with an open mind, and don't put it down until you have read each word and understood each line."

I have to read this book.

Peace, Lance

[roxy222]

paul brittons book the jigsaw man has a big section on this case cause he was the profiler who helped catch them. I dont remember the after math that well, I was ten I think, but I do remember that no one looked into why kids would do this. parental responsibility went out the window entirely. bit like the maddie mcann case where no one is willing to admit that leaving kids alone is a bloody criminal thing to do

[Lance]

That's why I want to read it as he writes about just that, the reasoning and build up prior to the incident. From what I read in the reviews, it isn't a book for passing a personal judgement or opinion, but bravely asks the questions most of us choose to completely ignore.

How could a large crowd of blood thirsty adults scream at, shout at, curse at and wish two 10-year-old children to be hanged? That turns my stomach as much as the murder itself. The book questions the responsibility of adults and the world we create for our children. I personally think as a whole, we don't protect kids enough and leave them exposed to incredible amounts of adulthood material. Those boys would have learned their actions from somewhere, a time and place in which protection was nil and their young brains were left exposed. That is the responsibilty of the ADULT generation to prevent that from happening.

...So when groups of adults literally gang up on 2 children and unleash the most vile words and insults and wish them DEAD, without ever questioning reasoning, they only emphasize the very reason it ever happened in the first place; themselves. Reasoning and understanding should always come before demonising and judgement.

Peace, Lance

[Lance]

Just to add to my previous post: On Saturday, I was out in the great weather we had wearing my Hooters t-shirt. It had a big picture of a rather lovely girl on the back holding a couple beers. No nudity or anything though. And outa nowhere, a group of kids, couldn't have been any older than 6 or 7, started shouting "look at that sexy girl on his back!!!!". At first I just laughed, but that was followed by "ey, would you FUCK HER?!!!" over and over again. At that point, my laugh was a nervous laugh as inside I felt sickened by their tone, language, and their apparent knowledge of 'fucking'.

This is precisely what I'm talking about. What kind of parents would allow their kids at that age to wander around a busy city road by themselves, shouting abuse, vile language and literally setting their own boundaries? And the answer is unfortunately, one of the most common types of parents in the world today, that's who.

I thought about how by the time they were 8 or 9, they could quite easily sexually abuse someone with just the attitude that girls are for 'fucking'. They're already corrupt and nobody gives a shit. And then I thought, if they did such a thing at that age, adults would once again take no responsibilty for the outcome, and gang up on them too.

But the final thought I had was about myself. Where did I stand in that situation? Was I as guilty as their parents? I allowed my t-shirt to be viewed by the eyes of young children, provoking their response. Was my lack of responsibilty playing a part in it all? I believe it was. I am as guilty as the next person. We all are. Potential corruption surrounds us but as adults, we overlook it, and that's what we have to work on as a whole. All in my opinion of course!

Peace, Lance

[Tulip]

I remember this murder like it was yesterday,I'm actually from Liverpool,I remember at the time my daughter was about the same age as Jamie when he was torturted to death,At the time i wouldn't let my daughter out my sight,Those 2 boys who murdered him should of never of been let out,It makes me bitter.

Lance it does have an affect on people,I remember at the time of it happening i was and i'm sure many others were too were totally shocked and angry with what had happened and even now when i still read about it i still feel sad,Jamies parents also split up not long after it happened,Which is so sad.

Tulip xxx

[Crocus]

I've read the Jigsaw Man and it talks about the case as cold hard facts, it does not discuss the reasons behind why it occured or ask the question.

[Lance]

Thanks for the replies you two.

I've just recieved my copy of "As If" through the post today and have read nearly half already. It's a brilliant book... Blake Morrison is an excelent writer.

I'm also wanting to say at this point that his name is not Jamie, it's James. The media got it wrong at the time, papers, tv, magazines. His family were so annoyed at the use of Jamie when they've never called him that. He's a James and just wanted to point that out.

But yeah...this book is beautifuly haunting, if that makes any sense x_X

Peace, Lance

[Shelley]

DONT WANT TO BE REMINDED OF THAT, DONT POST ABOUT THAT, DIDNT READ WONT READ TAKE THE FUCKING TITLE DOWN TAKE THIS FUCKING TOPIC AWAY.

[Lance]

DONT WANT TO BE REMINDED OF THAT, DONT POST ABOUT THAT, DIDNT READ WONT READ TAKE THE FUCKING TITLE DOWN TAKE THIS FUCKING TOPIC AWAY.

I'm sorry Shelley, really I am. I won't say anything else about the incident. I shall void all emotions and connections I have on this subject.

[AndyL]

I haven't read this topic carefully, so forgive me if this is out of line, but I think I love the idea of being sent to Australia with a new identity. Will they do that for Americans? The best I can expect here is probably Utah.

Anyway, on a more serious note, I have been forced to step in to keep the peace. All appropriate actions have been taken, so I think it would be a good idea to move on and continue what looks to me like an interesting, if initially gruesome, topic.

I'd also like to remind folks that if anyone runs into inappropriate behavior on the forums here, please submit a ticket instead of firing back. That only tends to exacerbate things and then the mods have to step in and, well, you get the picture. Submitting the ticket avoids the mess. Alternatively, you can click the little "Report!" button in the lower left-hand corner of each post, which will alert the staff immediately.

Thank you,

Andy

[Lance]

Thanks Andy.

Peace, Lance

[Joshua]

I have brought the two posts that were disabled back again

I feel its important to hold debates around these issues and be accepting of other peoples differing opinions. That said i would ask that oposing views are written in a civil manner and not swearing ec.

Certainly an interesting post, strange that i have also had this debate very recently....

[Lance]

Interesting move Josh...interesting.

What I find most sad though now is that one of the most significant topics of my life has now been tainted with all of this flame debate. I just wanted to explain how I believe the event threw my mind off course and caused the chain reaction to being how I am today. When I first started recalling these memories, they hit me so hard, almost as if my mind has been waiting for me to remember them, a huge release of emotions as I realize what it means. I now have answers to anomalies that I previously didn't. It's not about the murder itself, but how I interpreted it at that age. That's what I wanted to talk about....not just stir up crap about the murder, I'm not like that.

I hope this can get back on topic again, there's much more to it than the initial post. I'd hate to see a topic so important to me just fade off into arguements, cursing and mod interventions, completely shadowing what it was I wanted to talk about.

Peace, Lance