For Those With An Actual Bpd Dx

[hummm_mabbe]

1) Acting in grandiose or haughty ways, as though you are very important or superior (whilst feeling very much that you are not) - Sometimes i like to come across as abit of a know it all and that i am so more experienced in things than other people (i always know better)

2) Trying to act as though you are not afraid of anything, being 'counterphobic' and deliberately doing stuff that scares you. - I push boundaries, i am scared of heights but does that stop me climbing ladders or standing on the edge of a cliff, oh no and its just to prove a point that nothing can beat me!

3) Trying to be centre of attention - Around men more i guess, i know how to be flirty and get the attention i need, though not in a nasty way

4) Feeling you shouldnt have to do certain tasks or that you should not have the same expectations placed on you as others - I act like because i have a mh problem that i have an excuse not to do things like pay bills etc if i feel bad

5) Not letting anyone get close to you, acting as though you do not need anyone else - Very big prob for me. As soon as i feel hurt or upset i push away and vocalise that i dont need them, i am strong and i have survived so far, when i am dying for some love and a hug but the fear of rejection is too big.

6) Suppressing or denying emotions such as anxiety that you view as weak - focusing on only showing 'strong' behaviours. Being too self controlled. - I will deny that i am anxious or upset, i will push tears away etc but i will openly show i am strong and independant, pride is high!

7) Acting in a controlling or dominant way (again with a feeling of underlying fear) - will decide who comes around and when, when we go out, what we do, all depends on what kinda day i am having

8) Being extremely competitive and that you cannot be beaten (again out of fear) - My inner tantrum when i am beat is huge!!!!, i feel attacked and that i am not good enough

9) Being rebellious (out of a feeling of being controlled or dominated) - Oh yes!!!, if i percieve that i am being controlled then i will do the very thing that i know pisses the person off just to make a point!!

10) Intellectualising or rationalising emotions or actions to the exclusion of healthy expression - whenever i have a feeling like sadness or anger i have to describe it, why i feel it and discuss it like i need to explain myself because it isnt "normal".

phew, that was hard xxx

Hi angel

Why was it hard? Did you find like me that these are tough things to admit? Thats the bit that most made it difficult, I think thats mabbe why I put the post up! To find out if other people do this too. Its not a bad thing, we just punish ourselves for it and as a result, actually do it more because we drive it underground I think.

I am thinking If I were more up front with feeling I was just as entitled to having my needs met as other people, then I wouldnt feel guilty about expressing emotions or asking for my needs. Then I wouldnt suppress them, and because Im not suppressing them, Im not building up that resentment and sense of deprivation that actually causes me ultimately to go pop and act entitled The hard part is actually believing I have a right to express my needs and feelings in a healthy way and that they will not be punished ( I am always on edge waiting for the person to go "oh no way are you getting away with THAT - im gonna kick your azz" and hyperfocising on every little facial expression and gesture for signs of impending assault or abuse) - BPD is sooooo good at making us think our emotions and needs are bad!

[Data]

for those that actually have an 'official' BPD dx from a psychiatrist

What if you went to see the psychiatrist, but his ink pad had gone dry and so he was unable to use the rubber stamp ('BPD') on your forehead?

[hummm_mabbe]

The reason I put it is because I am looking at one branch of psychology that uses something called 'modes', which are broad ways of behaving and feeling that a person may have at any given time. In this branch of psychology, they do not usually rcognise 'pure' BPD as having an overcompensator mode. A very strong overcompensator that lacks the feeling of anxiety or fear behind it is much closer to NPD. Just about anyone might identify with overcompensation - people with depression, anxiety or any of those. Its the purity and strength of the mode that is unique to NPD, to the point that that is ALL there tends to be with the person. Other personality disorders may also have the overcompensating feature - but the reason I was asking, and the reason I put BPD only, is because that is the dx that was discussed as being my main feature. As I know I have the overcompensating feature, I wanted to know if others with BPD as a pure dx also felt similar, to find out if I am an exception. If I asked everyone, and got replied from people with multiple dx's, it might have seemed fairer but wouldnt actually have answered my question.

I recognise that I have an overcompensator, but that I have a very strong feeling of anxiety and fear behind it. Unlike those with more overt narcissism, I do not feel that I am entitled to be that way, I do not feel like "this is how it should be" or that others should just give me everythuing I want - I feel like I am forced into behaving that way becuase I have no choice. My overcompensator mode isnt a pure one then, like in NPD, but it doesnt totally fit the model (which is kind of theoretical anyway) of BPD.

[Data]

The reason I put it is because I am looking at one branch of psychology that uses something called 'modes', which are broad ways of behaving and feeling that a person may have at any given time. In this branch of psychology, they do not usually rcognise 'pure' BPD as having an overcompensator mode. A very strong overcompensator that lacks the feeling of anxiety or fear behind it is much closer to NPD. Just about anyone might identify with overcompensation - people with depression, anxiety or any of those. Its the purity and strength of the mode that is unique to NPD, to the point that that is ALL there tends to be with the person. Other personality disorders may also have the overcompensating feature - but the reason I was asking, and the reason I put BPD only, is because that is the dx that was discussed as being my main feature. As I know I have the overcompensating feature, I wanted to know if others with BPD as a pure dx also felt similar, to find out if I am an exception. If I asked everyone, and got replied from people with multiple dx's, it might have seemed fairer but wouldnt actually have answered my question.

I recognise that I have an overcompensator, but that I have a very strong feeling of anxiety and fear behind it. Unlike those with more overt narcissism, I do not feel that I am entitled to be that way, I do not feel like "this is how it should be" or that others should just give me everythuing I want - I feel like I am forced into behaving that way becuase I have no choice. My overcompensator mode isnt a pure one then, like in NPD, but it doesnt totally fit the model (which is kind of theoretical anyway) of BPD.

In my opinion, psychiatrists and diagnosis are both overrated and I am sceptical of generalisations made about people with particular personality disorders.

I hope you got your question answered .

In the past I have felt guilty about my emotions and pretended to feel the opposite. In fact, in a way pretending to feel the opposite has actually helped me socially. If you are the only one thats laughing at a funeral it is hard to fit in.

[hummm_mabbe]

EDIT: Ive got a feeling that this is just going to turn into conflict, so decided to remove my reply.

[Data]

EDIT: Ive got a feeling that this is just going to turn into conflict, so decided to remove my reply.

Although we might disagree on things, Ross, I respect the way in which you try and understand your disorder and find answers. A lot of people come here for support, which is fine, but not many look inward in as much detail and as deeply as you do and I sincerely hope that you find the answers you are looking for.

[Shelley]

1) Acting in grandiose or haughty ways, as though you are very important or superior (whilst feeling very much that you are not)

Have done yep.

2) Trying to act as though you are not afraid of anything, being 'counterphobic' and deliberately doing stuff that scares you.

Nope

3) Trying to be centre of attention

Whilst being drunk, yes.

4) Feeling you shouldnt have to do certain tasks or that you should not have the same expectations placed on you as others

Yes, If I am feeling 'unwell' there are thing/s that I cannot do, and believe I shouldn/t have to do.

5) Not letting anyone get close to you, acting as though you do not need anyone else

Yep, hurt them before they get a chance to hurt me.

6) Suppressing or denying emotions such as anxiety that you view as weak - focusing on only showing 'strong' behaviours. Being too self controlled.

Nope

7) Acting in a controlling or dominant way (again with a feeling of underlying fear)

Sometimes, very much so In my 20's

8) Being extremely competitive and that you cannot be beaten (again out of fear)

Nope

9) Being rebellious (out of a feeling of being controlled or dominated)

Yep ALL my life.

10) Intellectualising or rationalising emotions or actions to the exclusion of healthy expression

Yep.

I actually have an 'official' BPD dx from a psychiatrist! That kinda' make/s me wanna go "ner, ner, ne, ner, ner!" :rolleyes:

[Morbid_qt]

Oh my, I identify with almost all of these. I've never had someone put it so well before. The one the screams at me the most right now is number 4. I feel like normal people expect too much of me because I just can't do some of the things that they can. And I feel like no one gets that. It's so hard to be in school and never hand anything in because I just can't physically do the work. I'm not unintelligent, I just simply can't do it. And I get penalized and I feel although they feel justified that it's wrong. So I really identify with that one. Almost all the other ones are also me to a T. Crazy. Hope this helps. Or makes sense at all.

[xamg]

1) Acting in grandiose or haughty ways, as though you are very important or superior (whilst feeling very much that you are not)

2) Trying to act as though you are not afraid of anything, being 'counterphobic' and deliberately doing stuff that scares you.

3) Trying to be centre of attention

4) Feeling you shouldnt have to do certain tasks or that you should not have the same expectations placed on you as others

5) Not letting anyone get close to you, acting as though you do not need anyone else

6) Suppressing or denying emotions such as anxiety that you view as weak - focusing on only showing 'strong' behaviours. Being too self controlled.

7) Acting in a controlling or dominant way (again with a feeling of underlying fear)

8) Being extremely competitive and that you cannot be beaten (again out of fear)

9) Being rebellious (out of a feeling of being controlled or dominated)

10) Intellectualising or rationalising emotions or actions to the exclusion of healthy expression

I'll be honest, I think I do ALL of these things. For example, a lot of the time I actually feel really ugly, so in a vain attempt to try and make myself feel better and not show my weakness to others, I pretend like I think I'm the most beautiful thing to walk the planet. I am also an extremely competitive person - I pick up on the smallest, most stupid of things and become irritable about them - I feel as thought the person is trying to metaphorically squash me in a fight for dominance based on the smallest of comments they've made.

In terms of acting controlling/dominant, this one rears its ugly head when my boyfriend announces ANYTHING that doesn't involve me. I manage to control it now, but before ... wow, let's just say I'm the last person you should want to date. As I mentioned in another post, I get this RIDICULOUS feeling of betrayal when I'm not involved with things that my boyfriend does. Ergh.

I think the majority of people with superiority complexes are actually overcompensating for the fact that they actually feel like dirt. This certainly rings true for the majority of people I know who act particularly haughty - often they're pretty down about themselves and feel like they have to make up for it. Of course, you get the occasional REAL narcissist who truly believes that he/she is God and IS actually delusional, but most of the time, I find haughty people are insecure about themselves.

[Crocus]

It's funny because I have always felt the bpd dx is wrong for me. I don't do or act the way the bpd'er supposedly acts. I don't believe I have a fear of abandonment, if someone 'abandons' me, I feel it's their loss not mine, but I guess this could be me making myself feel better?

My partner is scared at how far I push the bounderies in terms of the fear factor and how I purposely put myself at risk and do things I should feel scared of, though I don't feel scared! Except confronting people over things, it terrifies me but I push myself to do it so I don't get walked over and so that I'm honest. It may take me a couple of days to get my head together enough to do that.

I do feel that people put too high expectations on me, not sure where you're going with that one, I AM ill and therefore shouldn't have high expectations on me, or expectations for me to do it all at once...getting well is about baby steps, one thing at a time and working on it bit by bit, so what is wrong with that?

I'm pretty intelligent and have a good set of moral standards. I feel that I should be with others with similar starndards. I live on a council estate and the behaviour I see disgusts me, crime etc...I don't see anything wrong with feeling that I am a better person than them. I do however think I'm not as good as the rest of the people I see in my life, people that work, own homes etc...

Not letting anyone get close, hah! This is from lack of trust. When I met Martin I told him I don't do love and I don't do relationships. Everyone I ever met in my life till then had abused me or my trust or both. What reason did I have to think that there were people out there that would not do this to me? I did unexpectedly fall in love though and eventually learned to trust him and let him in. Kinda crept up on me without me seeing it!

I don't like to be in competitive situations but when I have to be yes I give it my all, without mercy.

I used to be rebellious but most certainly am not now. To be fair all I want in my life now is peace and tranquility and no drama's.

Everyone says I think too much, I rationalise/analyse everything. Life, my thoughts, my actions, what I say, what someone else says/does. I'm not sure it's unhealthy as such, or at least not always, though I one wanted my arm amputated and my reasoning was that I wouldn't be able to cut it anymore. I believed that was a pretty rational thing to do but obviously with hindsight this was ridiculous.

Although I'm not a controlling person by nature and am pretty laid back, if something random and traumatic occurs I go into a downward spiral of depression, self hatred etc... I can't stand feeling helpless and out of control. Eg: miscarriage. Though I was extremely sad that I lost the baby, the biggest factor in it for me was that I couldn't do anything to stop it, I felt helpless and I couldn't stand not being in control. I don't try to control other people though, just myself.

I also get upset or angry when people talk to me disrepsectfully or patronise me, for example in a shop or customer service phone call when they are not doing their job properly and being rude or patronising. But I think that it's ok to expect respect and common decency. I've done nothing to deserve being talked to like crap by anyone.

I still don't think I have bpd.

[tizzywizzy]

As a genuine, bona-fide, person who has been diagnosed with F60 Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder ( Borderline Type), I feel qualified to comment. Please take this as genuine not mockery! I have been reading through all the posts on this subject and the more I have read, the more I am relating to it. Feeling knackered so not gonna take them one by one , but I know and have been told by therapists, shrinks etc that OVERCOMPENSATING is a big issue for me. Like others have said, I have (and still do) use intellect as a barrier, mask. I am completely driven internally by FEAR....................................shitloads of it. Yes I can appear overconfident but inside I'm sreaming because I wait in fear to be exposed as the piece of shit I am. I have used a major amount of control especially when starting relationships and often scare people away by my independance that reallly hides someone who wants to be looked after. For someone who is too scared to go to bed most nights, I do strangely end up as centre of attention in group situations due to being ' a bubbly personality' , a use humour to keep people at ease and am genuinly friendly....................yet so afraid. I guess I portray the person that I was raised to be, yet inside, when on my own do I know the person??? Well thanks for your depth of info on the subject. I too am on this voyage of self-discovery and feel honoured to be bobbin along next to you guys. you all contribute something so special, whether it is an emotional one-liner or 10 paragraphs of in-depth psychoanalysis it is all valid. Keep it coming, take life at your own pace, xxxxxxxxx

[profound1]

Hi hummm,

Hi I can understand you asking those with a dx of bpd especially if it is in relation to schema therapy, modes etc.... I am currently reading a book on schema therapy after reading some of your posts. I do not have a diagnosis of BPD although I believe I have a hell of a lot in common with others here who have - I hope you don't mind me replying. Overcompensation is a biggy for me, I have done it since I was a child in many different areas of my life, although I was quite oblivious until recently. It is interesting reading but in my case I get a bit emotional just reading about it and I know it will take a few attempts to sink in. It is good to read how others are too.

p1

[hummm_mabbe]

hi profound

yes I found that too - that even though they are "technical" books, they seem to have a real emotional understanding that makes me feel quite sad at times.

I was the same - I realised I had this side to me a couple of years ago, but actually fully understanding its nature took, and is taking, much longer. Its these completely automatic parts of me, that evolved to cover over the cracks, that now form a part of my personality that causes me to suffer. Thats the reason I like schema so much - it actually works to change elements of personality, not just help you feel less depressed or anxious. It takes away the foundations of what causes you to feel depressed or anxious or whatnot.

Sadly it just takes quite a while to do it

Which book are you reading? Have you been able to say which modes you think you have? If you feel you have a strong overcompensator and are reading the practitoners guide, then mabbe read the section on Narcissistic PD. Because of the presence of the OC mode you may find that some of it provides insight as NPD is all about the OC mode. Thats as you say mainly what is confusing me, because I have such a blend :(

[profound1]

hi profound

yes I found that too - that even though they are "technical" books, they seem to have a real emotional understanding that makes me feel quite sad at times.

I was the same - I realised I had this side to me a couple of years ago, but actually fully understanding its nature took, and is taking, much longer. Its these completely automatic parts of me, that evolved to cover over the cracks, that now form a part of my personality that causes me to suffer. Thats the reason I like schema so much - it actually works to change elements of personality, not just help you feel less depressed or anxious. It takes away the foundations of what causes you to feel depressed or anxious or whatnot.

Sadly it just takes quite a while to do it

Which book are you reading? Have you been able to say which modes you think you have? If you feel you have a strong overcompensator and are reading the practitoners guide, then mabbe read the section on Narcissistic PD. Because of the presence of the OC mode you may find that some of it provides insight as NPD is all about the OC mode. Thats as you say mainly what is confusing me, because I have such a blend

Hi Ross, yes it is the Practitioners Guide I am reading and it is very good too. I agree that understanding schemas and being able to progress to Healthy Adult is a long drawn out process and I am only just looking in on this as an outsider. Like you say the schema's are automatic and challenging and understanding them and how they lead to maladaptive behaviour helps with understanding yourself somewhat, I suspect that my problem would be perhaps recognising this in myself and being unable to think of solutions without the aid of a therapist. I think I will read through the book from beginning to end then look in more detail at myself. I haven't thought of myself in narcissitic PD terms before but there may well be some revelations when I get to that part, I definately have some BPD traits.

I am only up to the Cognitive Chapter so not even a third through the book. I could do with doing the assessment questionnaires but am not sure where I could access them. I will have a look online at some point.

Tatty bye

p1

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Ross, yes it is the Practitioners Guide I am reading and it is very good too. I agree that understanding schemas and being able to progress to Healthy Adult is a long drawn out process and I am only just looking in on this as an outsider. Like you say the schema's are automatic and challenging and understanding them and how they lead to maladaptive behaviour helps with understanding yourself somewhat, I suspect that my problem would be perhaps recognising this in myself and being unable to think of solutions without the aid of a therapist. I think I will read through the book from beginning to end then look in more detail at myself. I haven't thought of myself in narcissitic PD terms before but there may well be some revelations when I get to that part, I definately have some BPD traits.

I am only up to the Cognitive Chapter so not even a third through the book. I could do with doing the assessment questionnaires but am not sure where I could access them. I will have a look online at some point.

Tatty bye

p1

Hullo

The parts I find myself going back to the most are the individual schema descriptions, the mode work and the behavioural change section. The bits that tend to have the most emotional impact are the case study parts. You are right about the need for a therapist, as you will see when you get to the section on the therapeutic relationship as well as the sections on schemas and BPD / NPD. One of the main parts of schema is the imagery work, and personally I cannot make that work without the therapist yet - this reflects the strength of the Healthy Adult Mode, which in me is still quite weak If you have the Mistrust and Abuse schema they especially say with this one that you need a therapist. Maximum hugs.

Do you have a copy of Reinventing Your Life by Klosko and Young? They go into much mroe depth on 11 of the 18 schemas in there, its the patient guide for people having 'standard' (non mode) schema therapy.

If you want to take the questionnaires you can either get that book and take 11 of them, or you can go to www.schematherapy.com and find the inventories for all 18 schemas on the site, I think its listed under inventories. If you are close to BPD you may find that you have nearly all the schemas - dont be overwhelmed, this identification with all the schemas is the reason they developed the mode approach because it lets you handle multiple schemas at once.

[profound1]

Thank you so much for that, I will look for the Klosko and Young book, and on the schema therapy website, thanks for the link. Like I say I think I already have a lot of the schemas so I don't think I could be too shocked but actually thankful that for once all this crap that I have struggled with for the biggest part of my life actually seems to be understandable now. I feel relieved to make some sense of things.

I agree imagery work would be a struggle with regards to the mistrust and abuse schema, I know that I dissociate and I have flashbacks which is why I find reading about things such as schemas can be emotional depending on what it triggers for me.

Thanks for your reply.

p1

[hummm_mabbe]

Youre welcome

Huggles

Glad it feels like it has some answers for you, thats how I felt too ... like finally understanding. Sad to hear that you have had experiences bad enough to cause you to have flashbacks and dissociate **gives more hugs**. Fingers crossed that this is the start of something very important in your life.

[AveMaria]

Thanks for the website! I have wondered how to see what are my major schemas after hearing about all of your hard work with yours. They sound so interesting.

xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Ave

I dont usually give links to the inventories, for a few reasons. The main one is something that may be relevant for you at the moment, and that is the amount that you may be detached from feelings. It is possible to have a schema and not realise that you do, answering with low scores on the tests - this would be the case if you cope with it entirely by overcompensation or avoidance. Not that you have this, but an example is that for folks with NPD, they very often come up with very low scores on their "Young Schema Questionnaire" and so can be missed. I dont have NPD, but for me, I had 3 schemas I wasnt emotionally aware of until months into therapy, but the mode approach picked their effects up.

There are other questionnaires that can be done to pick up the ones that may be buried out of sight, such as the Young Rygh Avoidance one, and the parenting questionnaires. These tend to reveal schemas that the YSQ will miss. Also, people with BPD will usually have almost all of the 18 schemas which can be overwhelming, and so I dont tend to give the link.

If you do take it and find you have many/all of them, dont despair - this is the whole reason the special form of schema was developed :)

[AveMaria]

I am confused, from the questionnaire, how do you know what ones you have? And, if you don't mind, what are the parenting questionnaires?

xxx

[canadian mike]

Toward the end of my counselling, not too long before they kicked me out, I had a flair-up with my primary therapist, while in a support group. My therapist had recently joined the group, as a group leader, replacing a therapist who'd moved over to run the dual-diagnosis clinic. I had had a great repoire with the previous group leader and had never felt positive about my primary therapist, had even asked to have him replaced.

At our group meeting, my primary T had brought up the fact that I had missed the previous two meetings because I was in the psych ward after a drug od. One of the women in the group, someone whom I had really connected with, began crying. When my therapist brought up the point that I didn't seem to be reacting to the other member's tears, I said nothing, truth be told; I was seething with anger at my therapist's apparent lack of tact & my heart was torn by wanting to comfort the other member, yet, remembering that her previous advances were a concern for me, as I was/am married but had cheated on girlfriends in earlier relationships. At the end of the group meeting, I had an appointment with my primary T. When in his office, he brought the situation up again. When I deflected his comments by asking about the CBT program, he told me that he didn't think that it would be of value to me as, in deference to the resident psych & other psychs & psychotherapists, he felt that I wasn't borderline, but that I was narcissistic. Man, was that a kick in the nads! When I asked how he came to this conclusion, he said that it was due to my apparent lack of empathy for the other member's grief. I responded that I felt that it was most inappropriate for him to have told the group about my suicide attempt, without my prior permission, & that I was not about to react in any manner to what was a poorly played game, on his behalf. It's been about 8 years since then. Due to my penchant for reviewing my past, I can not think of my days of treatment without thinking of that therapist & the aforementioned event. In fact, After reading your initial post on this thread, Ross, I'm seething, again! Do I see myself in your list, Ross? Almost everywhere! In fact, when I've calmed down a bit, I fully intend to come back & reread the post & read the many responses. Though I may not - temporarily/presently - feel so, I do really appreciate your thoughts & opinions on these forums. Much thanks!

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Mike

Im sorry to have made you recall such a painful time in your life. With my post I had wanted to find out about something that bothered me, about myself. Im not trying to put anyone in a box - if that were the case, id be putting myself in one. These are just features, one corner of my personality, and I am sorry that you identify with them. But just because you identify with them, does not mean they are the sum total of your character. Everyone is a huge blend of many different traits, and certainly for your therapists to call you a narcissist in that offhand way is dismissive. It invalidates the pain that you are feeling underneath and that others should have compassion for. It seems that your theraists treated you with contempt, not compassion - and that reflects THEIR shortcomings, not yours. Perhaps in that situation you have described, you were actually trying to detach because it was a painful situation, not because you wilfully ignored the woman in your group. It was a painful situation and I would probably have done the same, and i think that you were badly misinterpreted. I understand how upsetting that can be especially if you end up feeling wrongly criticised for an intention you never had.

I do realise that people often resent labels and diagnostic categories. However they are out there, and I find it useful to use them applied to myself as lines in the sand. With my post I wanted to know where for me, personally, those lines were drawn realtive to the defined - if not totally accepted - diagnostic lines. It is all very vague, but by asking for folks with a BPD dx, I was trying to find a general reference point and find out if I lay far outside it. It seems that i do not, and have unfortunately upset you and another user in the process which makes me sad.

Is it the label "narcissism" that has upset you? Did it feel like I was saying "if you have these qualities then you are a narcissist"? Im sorry if it felt that way because that was the last thing on my mind. I do not like this term either, and prefer the way schema looks at these behaviours - as a coping mode, called counter-attacking (or perhaps less pleasantly, 'over-compensation'). All it means is that you are hurting inside and act on the outside like the opposite is happening. Sometimes this is a useful skill and very much needed. It is only if this is what a person tends to do all the time, that it can become damaging to them. Some therapists may wrongly call that narcissism, and so I have used those words ONLY because they will be recognised, not to try to demean you personally. Counter-attacking a painful emotion can look like a self-centred behaviour, and this is where less experienced therapists can misinterpret a fear or pain driven response as a 'narcissistic' one if they lack the ability to detect the underlying emotions. The massive difference is the emotional place that the behaviour is coming from. Is it done out of fear / pain, or is it done because the person genuinely belives they are superior or more entitled? For me it comes from pain, and I get the impression that is the case for you too.

If anything you and I are or have been in the same situation. I hate the term narcissism, and the thought that any of it could be applied to me makes me wince. However I do realise that I have these qualities which come on as a result of fear. They have come up in therapy and my therapist has dealt with them with compassion, understanding and acceptance. I also need to accept them so that i can deal with them. If I deny them just because someone else gives them a name I dont like, then I cannot grow and in fact I give the issue more power. The whole point of this post was me trying to find out how these behaviours come up for others so that i could learn more about myself, and as a nice side effect for others to make realisations too. Schema does not see these things in the pejorative and dismissive way that many other corners of psychotherapy do - it sees them as human reactions to stress that hurt the person doing them. It is maybe because I was coming from this position that I seemed a little cavalier in talking about them. The taint given them by others is an unfortunate side effect of ignorance about personality disorders that has persisted for some decades. I like to think that open discussion and acceptance will change that because these are not signs of being evil, or bad - they are signs of human pain.

[hummm_mabbe]

I am confused, from the questionnaire, how do you know what ones you have? And, if you don't mind, what are the parenting questionnaires?

xxx

The method of scoring the questionnaires is also on the site. Its best to not read how to score it first as it may influence how you fill it in, especially if you dont like the sound of a particuar schema. This can lead you to deliberately score it low when it in fact might be an issue for you. Instead fill it in like this. For each question, rate the relevance of each item according to this scale:

RATING SCALE:

1 = Completely untrue of me

2 = Mostly untrue of me

3 = Slightly more true than untrue

4 = Moderately true of me

5 = Mostly true of me

6 = Describes me perfectly

Then go and look at how to score it. It is really useful to read the descritions of the schemas, especially in the "reinventing" book because the word descriptions can often pick up more detail for you. The parenting questionnaires are assessments that relate to how you felt as a child. Therapists can then relate them to the 'current' situation as this identifies early schemas that are still active for you as well as ones that may be under the radar. There is also a compensation inventory that helps you identify which schemas you cope with by counter-attacking. Schema has a great deal of depth and can seem complex at first, but when you get down to it I think its very accurate and powerful.

http://www.schematherapy.com/id55.htm - Inventories

http://www.schematherapy.com/id8.htm - scoring (go to second)

The link above takes you to the questionnaires screen. Start with the "Young Schema Questionnaire Long Form" or "short form". Its really intended for therapists and so takes a bit of understanding. The book questionnaires are a little simpler.

[AveMaria]

Thanks. I'm still confused though. I understand how to figure out what your numeric scores are for each type on the questionnaire, but how do turn that into what your main schemas are? I think if I think about it long enough I will realize it is obvious, but so far it seems like a brain teaser that uses common sense things in it... I never get those! Lol. Is it just what ones you have the highest numbers in? So happy people would be either happy child or happy adult... but I'm still confused of how the rest of the types turn into schemas. I can tell I am being amazingly thick, how annoying.

xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

Thanks. I'm still confused though. I understand how to figure out what your numeric scores are for each type on the questionnaire, but how do turn that into what your main schemas are? I think if I think about it long enough I will realize it is obvious, but so far it seems like a brain teaser that uses common sense things in it... I never get those! Lol. Is it just what ones you have the highest numbers in? So happy people would be either happy child or happy adult... but I'm still confused of how the rest of the types turn into schemas. I can tell I am being amazingly thick, how annoying.

xxx

Hi Ave

It souds like you are getting modes and schemas mixed up! The Young Schema Questionnaire only determines schemas - start with that. Its the one with like 205 questions. That is the most thorough one, though there is a shorter version too. To score it, you are really looking for scores of 5 or 6, and in any schema where you have 3 or more 5's or 6's, that is a schema for you. The higher the overall score and the more 5/6's, the more core is that schema.

Modes are something else entirely and in treating BPD a therapist would not normally pay so much attention to individual schemas. Your modes are unique to you and when you see a therapist you will gradually work through to understand which ones you have and how they come up for you. To be honest there is not much you can do "self help" when it comes to modes except to identify them, simply because they way schema works with them i fairly complex and needs an experienced therapist to do with you. At risk of starting the same arguments again, 'core' BPD is thought to have 4 main modes - abandoned child, angry child, detached protector and punitive parent, as well as an undeveloped healthy adult mode. The aim of therapy is to overcome the detached protector, get rid of the punitive parent and reinforce and make the healthy adult mode independently strong. The overall treatment approach for BPD is listed here http://www.schematherapy.com/Borderline%20...files/frame.htm . You will see that individual schemas do not feature in the treatment approach - modes only are used, and that is why a therapist is required. You can do some self-work on individual schemas, but with BPD there are usually so many schemas that it can feel like an uphill struggle. Modes are neater and more convenient.

If you cannot get a therapist, I would just focus on the Young Schema Questionnaire and try to find your most core schemas - these will be the highest scores but especilly the ones with the greatest number of 5 and 6 scores on them. The questionnaire is borken down into sections with little two-letter headings. When you go to the scoring screen on the website, dont worry about the scoring grid, just look at the abbreviation list of schemas. It will tell you which schema each little subsection relates to. Heres an example:

24.______The people close to me have been very unpredictable; one moment they're available and nice to me; the next, they're angry, upset, self-absorbed, fighting, etc.

25.______I need other people so much that I worry about losing them.

26.______I feel so defenseless if I don't have people to protect me that I worry a lot about losing them.

27.______I can't be myself or express what I really feel, or people will leave me.

*ab

41. _____ I subscribe to the belief: "Control or be controlled."

42. _____ I get angry when I think about the ways I have been mistreated by other people throughout my life.

43. _____ Throughout my life, those close to me have taken advantage of me or used me for their own purposes.

44. _____ I have been physically, emotionally, or sexually abused by important people in my life.

*ma

In each example the two letter abreviation relates to the schema - ab is abandonment, ma is mistrust and abuse.

Maybe dont worry about the other questionnaires at this stage, there is so much to take in.