'everybody Hates Me'

[sundries]

Ive noticed so many people frequently post about how everybody hates them on the forum or off it....

I can understand why people feel this way but Ive also noticed that when people say this they seem to want lots of posts replying 'we dont hate you' blah blah

I truly don't think anyone on the forums hate each other but i think the people who feel everyone hates them can often be incredibly annoying and drive people away. Half of the reason they are annoying is because they spend so much time saying everybody hates them (or they feel everybody hates them) and that is actually so rude towards the people they are directing thier comments at.

After reading posts today i know this is an issue for people and i hope this post will help. Im afraid their isnt an easy way to say it and Im not trying to hurt anyones feelings.

People say they learn a lot about themselves on this forum and yet the people who say everybody hates them often seem to be blind about how they drive people away. Quite the most obvious thing about a lot of the people who feel everybody hates them is how stroppy and whiney they are. Im really sorry this sounds so blunt - but when people say this they often also profess not to understand why people find them annoying. When someone flounces out of chat or a thread announcing that everybody hates them it makes people feel very irritated and impatient with them. It makes people think 'oh for heavens sake why doent they grow up'....and that is how those who think everybody hates them push people away. Its not that people hate them, its just that the behaviour is very frustrating...and that is someting can easily be changed.

When they storm out they very obviously want everyone to feel guilty and run after them saying 'we dont hate you, talk to us, we want you to feel ok. There are so much better ways of getting support than trying to make people feel guilty. People say want input and to learn about themsleves, but then they get furious when people tell them why they get annoyed with them. People arent hated or dislike but others can just find them exhaustingly annoying and hardwork.

I know it is a borderline trait...but you can deal with it and you will feel much more accepted if you stop annoying everyone.

[Roses]

We are all on this site because we have some degree of difficulty with our emotions/feelings/behaviour. If blunt speaking is the OK on this thread, I would like to say that I find this entire thread offensive. You are pre-judging and reacting to people whom you know little about. It is not your place to decide whether they are annoying or whether they left a conversation for attention. We are all here to support each other through acceptance and patience we strive to help others.

[sundries]

I am quite capable of knowing who i find annoying and im also capable of knowing that when people strom out other typically find it annoying and usually say how irritating it is...especially when people do it it loads (perhaps it is not a case of me prejudging people i dont know....it is your assumption that i am not referring to the storming out as being a repeated and typical and unchanging reaction by some people).

I think the points made in my post are valid. I know a lot of people have the same views and it is unkind to let people think everyone hates them when that is not the case.

It is also your assumption that patience and compassion have not been present in abundance and that sometimes something other than 'poor you' might be compassionate.

[walker]

Its not that people hate them, its just that the behaviour is very frustrating...and that is someting can easily be changed.

as this post is quite clearly directed at me and those like me - although you will doubtless deny it and pretend that is just more evidence of me thinking the world owes me something - it is not

easily changed EH?????

so

can your behaviour easily be changed too??

can it

can you just stop all the things that torment your day to day existence

i am well aware that many people hate my posts and therefore they do not have to read them

i like responses - just as everyone else does - including you

but

i do not EXPECT them - it is just that part of my problem is i dont feel heard - so when people dont reply that can be a trigger, yes - as it is for tons and tons of people on here

and

when i 'storm out' as you put it - or when others do so - it is often because we are angry, or upset, or at risk of being rude - and i for one DO NOT expect people to run after me or drag me back

i dont give a f*ck to be honest - i just want to get away from triggers like this post

[yorkiegal73]

tbf i feel sundries has a right to express how she feels. And as someone who has been on the site for a while she does know what people are like and remembers their posting history. The 'i'm such a bad person, no one likes me' posts are highly irritating when they continue month after month. I tend to find that those posters only come for what they can get from the forum rather than trying to give something back too. And whilst I know how annoying it is when we get told to take responsibility for ourselves by our mental health teams, I think its' something that some people here need reminding of. We are adults not teenagers.

[Marchmadness]

Hey -

I can understand your point of view to an extent. Yes there have been times where

I have felt that people are saying everybody hates me for attention. Then there are

other times, where if you talk with the person, for some reason they do believe they

are not liked. To say this behavior can be changed "easily" that is clearly an over

statment. In order for any of us to change, first there has to be admitting on our part,

then awarness, then change. Change is the most difficult thing to accomplish. Especially

if we had done things one way for so long. Taking small steps forward towards change

is something that can be done. As long as you are moving forward and not standing

still that is a positive thing. Each one of us from time to time, fall prey to our inner fears,

emotions of not being liked. Point is don't stay in that mode, process it, work on why

you are feeling like that, and take steps forward to change your outlook about yourself.

March

[hummm_mabbe]

I can see the validity of sundries comments. Whilst it is hard to look at some of our less apealing traits, it is nonethless true that in personality disorders we are blind to our own behaviours that actually keep us stuck. That is actually sad for the person, and not a criticism, but very often its nearly impossible to point out the self defeating nature of their actions without causing upset.

An extreme example of this would be someone with very bad narcissistic traits, who belives firmly that they are entitled to take advantahe and abuse others. They lack empathy not out of choice but because they do not realise. I have a problem - when I feel afraid, or lonely, or anxious, I can begin to act out of a position of fear but it seems arrogant or haughty. Other see me as a dick, and reject me - but I am totally unaware that I am doing it because all I feel is fear or anxiety or anger. I am unable to see how others view me at that time, and get very upset if people then tell me that I seem arrogant because I do not recall FEELING arrogant.

The way I am feeling does not reflect the way others perceive me, and so I end up rejected and do not know why. This is a pattern so common in personality disorders and this makes them even harder to treat, because it is so hard to confront those behaviours in the person. Numerous people have told me in the past i can be arrogant, and this made me angry and feel misunderstood. I wouldnt listen, I rejected their comments as attacks. Now years later I can see that yes, its true - I can come across like that. I need to be aware now that when i feel anxious or angry or lonely that i can end up coming across like this, and so actually cause the very thing Im afraid of.

If I hadnt been willing to look into the darkness, it would still be consuming me - and it takes someone like sundries to be willing to say that out loud. I see it as "tough love" because I am fully aware that sympathy and compassion alone cannot touch it. It takes someone to forcibly confront those parts of us - but we must also belive that they truly have our best interests at heart. On a forum that is difficult to belive because we will not have had the chance to form a relationship with them. That is why it most commonly happens within the confines of a positive therapy or honest romantic relationship.

Not evceryone is ready for this stage and will react as I did years ago - with anger, hurt, upset and denial. It takes time for us to be ready for it.

[sundries]

It is true that posts can be ignored, however when people feel everybody hates them Ive noticed they tend to respond with extreme distress to having thier posts ignored. (usually resulting in a 'why doesnt anyone answer my posts yo uare all so selfish thread) I think it is very unkind to just ignore someones posts and leave them not knowing why.

I would agree change is difficult, perhaps 'easily changed was unhelpful to say. It was more meant to say. dont give up hope...behaviour can be a lot more easily changed than the original feelings...and the feelings hopefully will change more easily if the behaviour changes...that is often some of what cbt is about....its likely that if someone stops annoying people they will be more welcomed if they feel more welcomed thier feeling of not being welcomed would hopefully subside to some extent.

I hope i wasnt suggesting that the beleive everybody hates them is not a genuine belief. I was trying to show how it impacts on others and can end up in a vicious cycle where it annoys people, the people are then less friendly, and then it is taken as evidence everybody hates them....and this can often be after ages and ages of 'patience and compassion'

It is also true that awareness is the first step and in that respect i am trying to be helpful in this thread.

[Roses]

I'm sorry but I never said Sundries was not entitled to express her views I merely said that if plain speaking was OK here that I thought her post as a tad harsh and insensitive. That is just my opinion though and two opinions make a debate. It is healthy and normal to debate. I think I might have misunderstood the part about annoying people as it came across to me that Sundries was intolerant of their behaviour which I think is wrong I'm not sure? Myself and a lot of other people quite often respond to posts without using the "poor you" approach but tough love can be hard to give out on a website where you don't know if the person at the other end has 100 tablets lined up in front of them.

[walker]

i am well aware i am trapped in destructive cycles

i am not blind to them

or their impact

but

i am blind - when i am in the middle of them - when the day or week or moment is bad

oh

woops -

i act imulsively -

clearly no one else does

and much of my hatred and disgust and anger - is precisely because i DO see much of what is going on - but i cannot stop it

just as people cant stop their binge eating or their cutting or their spending or their drug taking, or drinkng,

but

as usual

those stuck with what are detestably called IMMATURE behaviours - are the ones that are persecuted the most

how about dishing out some tough love on the addicts then - or the self harmers -

[yorkiegal73]

Frankly if the person has tablets lined up in front of them that's down to them and no one else and I don't think you should try and guilt trip sundries in that way.

Change is difficult. I totally agree with that. But there is a big difference between the sort of posts where someone talks about what is going wrong with their life and how they feel about it, and those other posts which are just 'why does no one like me'. On another forum I look at occasionally there is a poster who literally just starts several threads per day going 'I feel bad' or 'Just ignore me'. It's like getting blood out of a stone trying to help them open up and in the end I've had to leave it with just replying with a 'thinking of you' comment. Why waste time thinking out a balanced and hopefully helpful answer when you know that person just doesn't listen. Ever. Maybe some of us are just further along the path to recovery thanks to therapy. I can handle challenges because I've experienced them in group work. But you know what? I did that group work because I got off my bum and got myself referred for it. I went through several types of therapy, meds etc. Did everything I could to get better. Had periods where I felt like crap just like others here. But I didn't turn those episodes into a way of life which would last forever. If a member has been here for some time and does little other than say the same again and again then perhaps internet forums aren't helpful for them after all.

[Roses]

I would like to think that anyone reading this would know that it is my honest opinion I offer and that I am not waging some bitching war. However it is dressed up the facts are:

there are some people that are deemed 'annoying'

there are people who want to give them tough love

These are facts and I'm sorry if I am being ofensive but to me it sounds like the person needs to take a look at themselves.

[Sammy]

I think tough love is essential sometimes too. I however also know that to give it you need to know the person, or at least know where their feelings are coming from. If...as walker said this thread is inclusive of being about her, then I'd like to defend walker by saying I've learnt a lot about her current situation and some of her past situation that causes the feelings that she gets, and therfore have a better understanding of why she feels the way she does.

Yes it upsets me that after all our chats that she still can't see how much I care, or how much others care is frustrating to me, but I can recognise that the frustration I feel is about me not her. I also feel frustrated with myself because I feel helpless in her situation, and sometimes in others too, but that's my problem that I need to learn to overcome, not hers or anyone elses.

I don't feel I should have to keep repeating myself over and over again in every thread someone posts that I don't hate them and actually care about them and so I do it occasionally rather than every time. I can only hope that it will one day be enough.

[tinkerbelle]

My opinion i think anyone reading this thread will be put off posting,It is dreadful.

No matter how much we debate this "EVERYBODY HATES ME" it will always happen,I have been a member on many forums and i've seen it happen loads of times,So i think its pointless discussing it really.

XXX

[AveMaria]

I don't think sundries is picking any specific one person out! I think Sundries is just saying that it can be difficult to continue to feel empathy and compassion to people that bring up the same issues over and over and over again and don't seem to really be trying to get better. I know that I do that sometimes, and then I realize I am being annoying and try to stop. Everyone needs support sometimes. I believe on here we are all trying to give and take, and sundries is mentioning that it isn't fair to only take. I agree with what has been said, that I think if you feel someone is deserving of tough love... then you should actually get to know them first so you really understand what they are going through. It is easy when you are upset and can't totally understand why to just do a simple, "everybody hates me" post just so you feel like you are getting some support. Yeah it might be annoying to the rest of us, but if that helps you cope with whatever is going on in your life... is it really that big of a deal? I know I don't mind trying to support people even if it is the same issue over and over. Some problems are very difficult to overcome, that doesn't mean the people suffering from them should be made to feel guilty that they aren't able to get better on someone else's time schedule.

xxx

[Paris]

Id like to say i feel this thread has got rather personal by singling a member out and i feel its very unfair. We should be able to post whatever we feel as long as it in the terms etc. I would even go so far to say its intimidating and qujite bully like tactics on this thread.

Just my view

[hummm_mabbe]

Just to say

Before my comment gets blown out of context, "tough love" is how I would describe what happened to me, and that actually helped me. I was trying to see the positive aspects of the original post and identify with how such an approach has helped me. As you can hopefully see from my post, I was not aiming it at anyone except myself, and the broader context of buried patterns in personality disorders. Just because i agree with the theme does not mean I agree with any possible implied target in the OP.

This is not a personal view aimed at a given person, and not at walker either. We all have those patterns, but yet there is a way and a time of broaching them with any given person.

Please do not interpret my comments as taking any side. I have talked about my own negative qualities and no one elses.

[Sammy]

My reply was based solely on walkers own assumption that this thread was about her. I used the word if because I cannot guage sundries intentions as she didn't single anyone out. I don't feel I was singling walker out but in fact trying to defend her based on her feelings and beliefs that the thread was aimed at her.

[yorkiegal73]

paris i wasn't aware that sundries had picked anyone out in particular. in fact she was obviously very careful to not name names. If anything it is sundries who is being singled out and if the thread is about the other person mentioned then i happen to know that sundries has spent a lot of time trying to help and support that person and others who have the same issue, despite having to contend with her own problems.

i think in fact that tough love is often extremely useful to help us move forward. i learn a lot more when my friends are honest with me than when they just send virtual hugs.

and lets be honest here and stop skipping round the subject. people who constantly whinge and moan and are always negative are bloody irritating. You all know that so stop being so sanctomonious. I see the comments about these people when they leave chat so don't pretend to be so caring.

[sundries]

Yes SAmmy it was not my intention to make this thread personal or single any one person out.

[Sammy]

paris i wasn't aware that sundries had picked anyone out in particular. in fact she was obviously very careful to not name names. If anything it is sundries who is being singled out and if the thread is about the other person mentioned then i happen to know that sundries has spent a lot of time trying to help and support that person and others who have the same issue, despite having to contend with her own problems.

i think in fact that tough love is often extremely useful to help us move forward. i learn a lot more when my friends are honest with me than when they just send virtual hugs.

and lets be honest here and stop skipping round the subject. people who constantly whinge and moan and are always negative are bloody irritating. You all know that so stop being so sanctomonious. I see the comments about these people when they leave chat so don't pretend to be so caring.

excuse me? I've not seen anyone in chat make nasty, rude or otherwise derogatory statements about other members of this forum and I'm there a lot!

[tinkerbelle]

Why was this thread started?It's obvious its going to cause upset,People post for support,Ok i agree sometimes maybe the person can be annoying SO WHAT.

I really don't see WHAT THE POINT IS.

[walker]

i think the game is

saying - It is NOT directed at anyone inparticular

and ofcourse when people like me respond -

it looks like i am the one being touchy

but it is plain

and

no ross i do not thnk you are taking sides at all

we are none of us stupid - we know what is being said and why

but

in my case - i have always been OFF MY BUM

i have done 2 degrees - brought up 2 children - worked full time - and not sat at home feeling sorry for myself

i have undergone different therapy for a number of years

and taken meds

and now i am exhausted - and stuck - because all the things that got me through in the past - have never, ever, taken the pain away or actually brought about deep seated change

and i dont think it does for most people - it just covers things up for a bit - makes them feel better - and enables them to function

I know some of what i need to do

and i am terrified

utterly terrified

so

i sit on my arse

and work through the shit in my head - and wait - until i can move

[Sammy]

Sometimes I think everybody hates me too, then someone might make a snide remark or look at me a certain way and it just confirms my belief. If there are people in your life that daily make indications that you are worthless it's hard to not take it as truth even if it's not truth.

I just wanted to say that.

[tinkerbelle]

paris i wasn't aware that sundries had picked anyone out in particular. in fact she was obviously very careful to not name names. If anything it is sundries who is being singled out and if the thread is about the other person mentioned then i happen to know that sundries has spent a lot of time trying to help and support that person and others who have the same issue, despite having to contend with her own problems.

i think in fact that tough love is often extremely useful to help us move forward. i learn a lot more when my friends are honest with me than when they just send virtual hugs.

and lets be honest here and stop skipping round the subject. people who constantly whinge and moan and are always negative are bloody irritating. You all know that so stop being so sanctomonious. I see the comments about these people when they leave chat so don't pretend to be so caring.

:o