'everybody Hates Me'

[catspiracy]

I post my own "I'm a bad person" threads because I hate myself. And I don't know how to stop hating myself and at the same time "irritating" the people around me with my pathetic whining. So I post a thread. And I feel better, because I know in this place, it's "socially acceptable" to enough of my forum friends. These friends help me so much with their virtual hugs and their gentle words of advice and compassion. Words of advice and compassion that never would have been addressed to me if I hadn't pissed and moaned in an "I'm a bad person" thread, simply because who would know how much pain I'm in unless I let that dark light shine? Who would assume I need their hugs unless I communicate my true feelings?

After I read the acts of kindness directed at me, I have so much less compulsion to act out with the "I'm a bad person" behavior with my loved ones in the real world. This is my safe harbor to be as sick as I fucking feel, no more hypocrisy.

I do look over my behavior overall and over time as well. I can look back thru my posts and analyze trends and spikes in my sick times and hopefully use that wisdom to continue to improve myself. For example, i feel and post about extreme self loathing when triggered by my daughter, about once a month (now that I mention it, it's usually during her pms time, makes sense, she's uber-bitchy then.)

I intend to continue to make those "i'm a bad person" posts whenever I feel like doing so. I don't do it lightly, and other people seem to appreciate giving me comfort as much as I appreciate giving comfort to them when they want or need it. It's just as important to receive as to give--that's the bulk of my feeling of being a bad person, is that I still have a long way to go before I believe I deserve compassion.

just my three cents.

cat

[DMHvln1]

Catspiracy, I understand where you are coming from,

I just joined this forum and in a way it kind of almost scared me away thinking I will be condemned for my feelings and bringing them up, something I think all of us here go through in one way or another and not being able to have the support "out there".

You, by your words seem to me to be a strong woman who in spite of what others might say have a strong sense of self, in that place other than is self-loathing, but the one that deals with other people. I wish I had that.

One of the things I am trying to do is to live a quote of Dr. Seuss "Be who you are and say what you feel because those that mind, don't matter and those that matter, don't mind".

[Spiralling]

Just to add my pennies worth....

..I haven't read the whole of this topic thus far but its very clear from the beginning what its regarding.

I can speak for others hear to, I only joined a week ago but I can honestly say i feel as though I can post whatever without the worry of horrible negative comments being thrown back at me. I choose to post about different topics & if people wish to give their opinions then great If they don't...I will still sleep at night. Its their choice. I like the freedom of being able to just release something that has been building up for so damn long (like i have done recently)that you think your going to explode. This could be the ends of the world to one person but something very mild, like a walk in the park for the next person. We all have very different disorders etc.) If this includes self-hatred, then I'll post it. Why should anyone have to feel like they can't confide so freely here? This place is a sanctuary to us all..

[purplechick]

well im shocked after reading this!

i only joined up a week ago, and up until now had been really enjoying this site and being able to express my feelings, but after reading this thread, i now feel that i cant post what i want in fear of people thinking im just doing it to get sypathy!

one person has no right to control what another person says or how they feel! if you dont like what someone has to say then dont read their threads in the first place!

[Rael]

when someone has low self esteem, paranoia, or any number of problems, then hearing people on the forum being referred to as 'annoying', 'irritating' etc is gonna hit you. even if its not directed at you, that little part in your brain lights up and says 'but it could be me...' and that can make things spiral down. it does in me, i can feel fine and then one little doubt kicks in and it tears it all apart.

yeah, i have many many times where i think that everyone hates me, i am evil, worthless, etc and yep i may post about it because that is how i am feeling and this is a place to post about our feelings. we sometimes come here for advice, to feel real, for company, or to feel at least a little more liked than we feel in everyday life - for comfort. no one can say what another person needs, we are not them, i have replied to people who have responded to me through pm and so while it might seem to anyone else that they havent taken anything on board, in fact they have and we have been discussing it, just in private. that has happened with a number of people.

i have many times that i fear to post because of what i am convinced people will think of me and there have been specific threads (ages ago) that have led me to now not being comfortable posting very much of my own stuff. its sad that it could put people off posting but i know it might, and while i can understand their feelings i hope they will, in times of need and desperation (and yep even sometimes paranoid and self-depreciating thoughts) everyone needs support.

xxx

[jenga]

I just skimmed through these responses ands want to make a few quick points:

First of all, I don't think it's fair for anyone to judge why someone is here, or what they expect, or what they should be given, or what they say , or how they respond. This is an open forum meant for everyone: people can choose to agree or not, say what they will or wont, and take or not take what is offered here.

The responses to these post here are NOT only just because so many of us have bpd; I think you would get many of these things on any board where people have different opinions, which means any board at all.

Yes, we come here with different backgrounds and issues, and we know some are more sensitive to things to others. Some take everything really seriously, some are here to encourage participation, and some just lay it on the line.. saying what they think is THE way to do things.

None of these opinions are inherently wrong. We (people in general) do not always consider someone elses response to what we are saying. True freedom of expression has risks. I thought the goal was to encourage thoughtful expression here, whatever that may be, "right or wrong" in your mind. Others can take or leave what they will. Respond or not. When you decide to post, you are leaving it out there.

We are not experts here with all of the answers.. just real people doing the best we can, and it is what it is. Sometimes people may seem off base in their reactions, but these are just judgements. No one here should be "invalidated", yet at the same time I see many people giving appropriate responses that not every one agrees with. Well, some people respond well to come suggestions , and others do not. That is the nature of relationships. To some, any coddling means to others an acceptance of behavior; to others, any challenge is personal. Hey, come on. We are what we are, we can't be whatever everyone wants, and, yes, that is life. WHy should we expect everyone to agree on these things, just because we are on this forum?

Why spend all this time talking about what or how, or why we are doing things, and instead just "be" ?who we are? You take what is useful, discard what isn't. Say what you feel or not, and let other so the same. It's not personal, really, since we don't actually know each other. All we do know is that we are all different. We are people trying to do the best we can, like I said. This dividing of opinions goes against the inherent nature of this forum. ANd part of that IS the acceptance that we are not the same, do not think like everyone else, and have diff needs. Different things bug different people. That is a fact. No judgement here.

[Demeter]

I read this whole thread and I find it very interesting that I can identify with everyone here. Everyone’s got their own point of view which is equally valid. Yes, it can be annoying to deal with whiney people, and also yes, being criticized for being whiney is not always helpful.

But I guess I do have a problem with the original post, not the content but the way in which it was said. I recently interviewed to be in a therapy group and one thing the therapist leader wanted was for people, when they give feedback to other members, to use “I†statements: “I feel guilty when you say that,†“I feel shame because you reminded me of my mother just then,†etc. I think that makes a lot of sense. I think, when a person has a problem with another person, it’s just as much about the person having the problem as it is about the other person. I guess I would have liked the original poster to have owned her (or his, I haven’t been here long enough to know) feelings, rather than just place blame on people. Not that I can’t understand being irritated by whiney people – I’m sure it’s very annoying. I haven’t been involved here long enough to have experienced it, but I probably will at some point in the future.

The other thing I wanted to say is that, by our natures, people with BPD can be paranoid and feel that every criticism is about us. I think the original poster was referring to some extreme cases that are relatively rare, if I read between the lines correctly. But by putting the criticism out there without giving any names, in a way it was almost an (unintended) invitation for everyone here to feel that it was about them. How would it have been, if the poster gave the feedback directly to the person(s) involved, in private message(s)? That way everyone wouldn’t have felt criticized. And taken responsibility for their feelings so the person being criticized wouldn’t have felt quite so bad? Just a thought; maybe it would just make things worse, I dunno.

People with BPD are very used to being criticized for having “negative†feelings . . . we’re the kings and queens of unacceptable, un-PC, non-OK emotions . . . I just hate to see criticisms being put out there that encourage us to feel bad about our feelings, like everyone in the real world does. But of course, as I think more about this issue, I realize that the original poster WAS expressing her/his feelings, which are therefore valid too. There should definitely be a place for people to express those kinds of irritations. But I just think using “I†statements is less harsh and less potentially hurtful. If we’re bothered by someone, the problem is just as much in *us* as it is in the person who’s bothering us. Which of course means that when people say, “Everybody hates me,†they’re really saying they *feel* hated by everyone, which is course is about them, not the other people in the forum or the chat room. So the person, in that statement, also isn’t taking responsibility for their emotions. I know I’m going on and on here, but I’m just trying to be fair to all parties. I really wish this conflict could be resolved, sigh.

[bibiddi]

I am glad this thread is here - it may have taken an awkward turn or too, but I think its good to talk.

My personal feelings on 'everyone hates me' thread, is there are two sides - the sender, and the receiver.

The sender, may write it for various reasons, they may genuinely feel everyone hates them, or they may be wanting some form of validation -confirming or denying that hatred.

But, and this obviously is my own view - what they gain is an external opinion about themselves. Other peoples opinions matter - a lot. So much so, it overrides their own feelings, and one voice that can be perceived as negative, is so much easier to hear than all the positive voices.

Feeling stuck in the vicious cycle is a horrible place to be.

Secondly, there is the receiver. When they hear/read 'everyone hates me' they may feel rejected and abandoned, especially if they have tried to help, and give positive feedback.

They may feel that they are not good enough, or are feeling invalidated. It can be difficult to give unconditional support, when it is being rejected.

Therefore, to protect themselves, they may give less support, or want the person to change - thereby confirming (in the mind of the sender) that they are hated.

So what is helpful to both sides?

I think there will always be 'everyone hates me' posts.

For those who are able, maybe trying to help them slow their emotions down would be helpful.

I would think it depends on the situation, but off the top of my head, things that may help would be trying to help the poster think whether they mean 'everyone' or just certain people, if so who, and why. Perhaps trying to help them see the support, and its ok they cant feel it, but to acknowledge it is there is a positive step.

I can see its not easy to change, and the steps have to be done slowly, and perhaps differently for each person/situation, they will also have to be done repeatedly.

Challenging peoples thoughts can be one of the most supportive things you can do.

It may feel like an attack, but it doesnt always mean it is.

(oh, and I am writing this as someone who has done the 'everyone hates me' thing)

[Dani]

I ve only just read the post.I do understand how it can become frustrating when a person will not believe that they are liked and supported no matter how hard we may try to convince them....however that would be our frustration.

I personally like to ask why a person feels that people hate them and what has made them come to that conclusion.

This site is here for support...so that includes support when a person feels dis-liked.A little re-assurance is always nice expecially if that person isn't getting that in their day to day life away from the forum.A lot of us have days where we feel this way and posting about our feelings help.

x

[les66]

Personally I think we should all be allowed to express our inner feelings and what our thoughts are without being judged, as that is not the way to be. I have never nor shall I ever judge anyone in life, I always do my best to empathise with the person.

We come on this site to be helped and supported, not to be put down for expressing things going on in our head. Last thing we want to do is make people think that if they do post how they feel, they are going to be made feel worse for doing so.

We all have issues with our different mental illnesses, each 1 of us react in different ways. So can we just all be more compansionate about what this site is all about please.

Take Care

Leslie x

[tinkerbelle]

well im shocked after reading this!

i only joined up a week ago, and up until now had been really enjoying this site and being able to express my feelings, but after reading this thread, i now feel that i cant post what i want in fear of people thinking im just doing it to get sypathy!

one person has no right to control what another person says or how they feel! if you dont like what someone has to say then dont read their threads in the first place!

hI purplechick,

I only joined a week ago too,unfortunatly this happens on forums alot,I know it shouldn't,We should be able to come here and feel safe and express our feelings and not to be judged or people thinking we are just here for sympathy.

XXX

[sundries]

Demeter and bibbidi I agree with you.

In my original post I was trying to get across that using the 'everybody hates me' phrase can eventually alienate others. Obvioiusly if I feel alientated and annoyed by someone who continuously tells me 'everybody hates me' that is 'my' issue but it eventually results in me avoiding people who do that all the time.....and the fact is a lot of people DO 'EVENTUALLY' get irritated and avoid continuous everybody hates me posts or flouncing out of chat.

Thats not the same as judging or saying people shouldnt express their feeling that everyone hates them what it is saying is that it can result in being avoided because a lot of people can find it exhausting unrewarding and hurtful when people dont acknowledge (which doesnt necessarily mean agree with or not need comfort anymore) the endless reassurances that they arent hated. Its not a criticism or saying you shouldnt post like that , its saying the effect it can have to continuously tell people they hate you (for a start you dont know thier feelings anyway) and the effect on a lot of people is to make them avoid you, not least because you are actually criticising them by saying they hate you. And then when you are avoided it just cofirms belief you are hated.

And you dont 'feel' everybody hates you. You feel isolated or alone, which is different and a lot less presumptious than informing people they hate you. And I dont think people shouldnt have sympathy and I dont think i said that.

[roxy222]

i do see the point of the original post, i just think that maybe the wording and other tensions have meant that the intension is not playing out.... my personal opinion thats all

with regard to the original topic i am someone who stays well away from most who have that attitude. until i get to know them as individuals and then 'feel' compassionate when they are goign through this type of rough patch. in real life and internet. yeah the 'everybody hates me' attitude gets alot of peoples backs up (in general) but then i would imagine that those posting know this also as i know i did when i was stuck behaving in this way.

its transference, the person in the centre of this type of situation has tons of negative feelings bout themselves and as these are difficult to deal with (especially alone) they act in a way that transfers these feeling onto others, for example if a person feels desperate and disgusted they act in a way that inspires others to feel disgusted by their desperation. this is essentiall unconcious, and even when concious only intellectually so. this is a repertition compulsion. at the heart of this is very very hurt feelings, and damaged integrity dating back to serious past pain. when discussing the idea of controling these behaviours it diminishes the seriousness of the feelings underneath these actions, and in my personal experince i think valuing feelings is the most important step there is in getting better, or whatever phrase fits the recovery idea. self defeating behaviours like this are so much easier to walk away from when we take our own feelings seriously. often to take this step we need to see practical evidence of others taking our feelings seriously, and often we will put ourselves out there by the 'i hate me' actions in the hope to have this need filled, again often unconciously, and often unsuccessfully

this is how i feel on this subject. i hope that i have not inadvertantly hurt anyone by stating this. i do not know where the personal agenda stuff here is coming from (nor am i blaming anyone for it) so this is a general reply, not aimed at anyone

what i would like to say annoys me personally though is people on any type of forum like this who appear to expect people to reply to them and/or automaticly have sympathy for them. hopefully everyone can find that type of support in places like this, but we all have to be responsible for ourselves first and if any of us dont feel we can be sympathetic or supportive standing back and not saying anything is not a reason to be attacked. again, just a general statement, no offense or personal agenda

[catspiracy]

I think three important points can be extracted:

1. We all need to use I statements to express our feelings, as Demeter I think said--it's just plain group therapy protocol to avoid hurt feelings. "Everyone hates me" is not an I statement and so becomes confusing as to how to dole out responsibilities.

2. We all need to be mindful of transference, as Roxy points out. When I believe I am a bad person, I begin the vicious cycle of assuming others can read my mind and share my belief that I'm a bad person, and therefore can only be expected to hate me. That's a complicated system I just described, and recovery requires teasing out the strands, understanding how our own internal system works, and reworking it to be more effective and happier people. This is hard to do when you feel censored and don't believe you have the freedom here to explore that vicious cycle honestly.

3. We all need to be mindful of the distinction between feelings and beliefs, as Sundries just said. "Everyone hates me" is a belief which both explains and generates our feelings. As sundries just pointed out, it might be more effective if we say things like, "I feel isolated and alienated. I feel extremely sensitive to signals that I might be an outcast or hated. Can anyone offer me any comfort or advice?"

Too bad it's not a perfect world, and we get into the amygdala brain state and literally can't think straight. The brain overrides the frontal cortex with fight-or-flight stress hormones, cutting off the ability to be calm and rational about things. That's the whole problem! If we had control over our amygdala response, we probably wouldn't have a bpd diagnosis. So I accept the "everybody hates me" threads. They are made by people who DO want to feel better, as Rael points out, much work is done behind the scenes and all that's left hanging out in the open is an old thread. The thread did its purpose, it got the person attention and help to get better.

It seems to me that there is an underlying denial of the benefits of attention in this thread. Like I said, if I don't tell people that I am self-loathing and need attention in order to stop, I can't stop and won't stop, and will probably escalate and hurt myself or others. What's wrong with a little attention for cryin' out loud????