Disturbing Act.

[Ocean Wolf]

You think no one here is the kind of person who has urges to kill/harm other people? The kind of people you're describing?

[roxy222]

You think no one here is the kind of person who has urges to kill/harm other people? The kind of people you're describing?

i didnt say that. we were talking about the reasons behind them and how it feels so difficult to understand.

[Ocean Wolf]

Also, what makes you think I'm refering to you? Earlier, people were calling a hypothetical person like a "sick fuck" and questioning whether or not a person like that could still be referred to as a person. I tried pointing out a reason why that happens, but no one listened. They just kept up with that "sick fuck" crap. Maybe it shouldn't be bothering me still, but... Well, it's hurtful. And now, maybe it's just me overacting. It probably is and if so, I apologize. But it feels like (and again, it could just be that I was triggered to begin with) like people are saying "well, I went through abuse and I didn't end up that way. why do these people?" Again, it's possible that I'm jsut still triggered from having people like me insulted earlier.

[Sammy]

I personally think calling 'anyone' a sick fuck is too judgmental, even had someone killed this cat, there are reasons behind this behaviour. Would you rather they killed a human? Because often like we may self abuse to stop us acting out on others, these people (who are ill) act out on animals to stop themselves acting out on humans. And yes, I don't like what has been done to animals by people who are ill but I would rather that then hear about someone going on a killing spree of humans than hurting an animal. My priority is with people.

Also despite animals being innocent victims I have more compassion for the tortured person that commited the act than the animal. Rather than judge and condemn I would much prefer to understand the person and try to help them to get better or learn better coping mechanisms to deal with their feelings.

People on here show compassion to others here that are abusive to their partners, yet call someone who harms an animal something as harsh and judgmental as a sick fuck! People are more important than animals, because we are people. I wouldn't expect another animal to defend us in such a way, I am sure they wouldn't care if we were hurt or injured, except to see us as their next meal for being defensless.

The person who harms an animal may have your best interest more at heart than you can possibly imagine. They may be considering you more than you ever consider them. It's easy to say well I've been abused and I don't hurt animals, but people cope differently, and some don't cope as well as others. It's not even about who has suffered the worse degree of abuse, it's simply about coping mechanisms.

Would you rather someone you know had been killed than a cat or even your own cat?

[Sammy]

Oh and I think it's disgusting that someone would suggest that the person that did this should have it done to them! Maybe it would be more constructive to find a way to improve the mental health system or care in the community rather than hope these people are hurt or locked up for what they've done.

[Ocean Wolf]

If think we should face the consequences if we act, but if people hate those actions so much, you'd think they'd tried to stop it from happening.

[Data]

From what I've researched, it something that people like me do. Not all of them, but some. And yes, people like me are people even if you have different things in your head than us.

Basically, what I have found out is that we still don't know where the urge to kill people comes from. What has been found out is that it tends to stronger and stronger and ways of dealing with it have to adapt. Some people eventually try to deal with it by acting it out on animals.

So yes, it is disturbing. Personally, I feel sorry for the cat. But I strongly suspect it's also an attempt to control something that most of the population finds much worse.

I'm sorry if I've offended anybody, but the fact of the matter is there aren't that many options for people who do get urges that strong.

Irrespective of what is in your head, you have a choice as to whether you act on your urges. The offender did, and was very wrong in doing so.

I can't see how you can infer the intent of the wrongdoer from the little information in this post, either.

[Roses]

I would like to clear up this misunderstanding that I have caused.

When I first read the post I mis-read it and thought that it had been a teenager/adult who had done this to a poor animal. I knee-jerk reacted from the point of view of a Mum who has kids that go play on these sort of parks on estates and if either of mine had found this animal in that state I would have been devastated and I stated that the the I hoped the sick fuckers got caught.

I cannot apologise for my statement as that is how I feel. However I understand that I should probably have kept my feelings to myself and will be more careful in future postings.

[successful_workthru]

i find it hard to understand too, the more and more i remmeber about the past the more i realise how extreeme the abuse i went through was. rarely if ever do i come accross others anywhere who have been through the things i have and yet i dont hurt others, ever. i have hurt myself alot in the past, but much less so now. the thing that i find as an explaination for me is that despite how horrific the abuse and brainwashing was i did have some care from out siders, they may never have known what was going on or rescued me but there tiny imput i think was enough to let me know that there was another option in life, and i think when people grow up to take on the role of abuser it is because they dont get this option.

I think there is some truth in that.

You do get many caring compassionate people, with childhood abuse experience, who wouldnt hurt a fly.

Maybe, as you suggest, the people who do hurt others, had no support, or worse still, had their cries for help ignored, or even mocked and discouraged.

Maybe, even if they see others receiving help, they have a personal complex that help for them is an alien concept.

This is my very poor understanding at trying to fathom out mans inhumanity.

If I did understand it, I think I would cope with people better than I do now, in the same way, my resentment of my parents decreased somewhat, when I had the lightbulb moment about the degree of abuse indicates the degree of shit they went through in their own childhood.

I have lost my temper in the past with people, but it was provoked, and I was the most hurt in the end, as my tantrum was ineffective.

I am not being judgemental, and the following, is a statement about myself, in that, I cannot get my head around someone having the urge to hurt someone who hasnt hurt me. I think the guilt would drive me mad.

What do these people do with the guilt? there is only so much alcohol and drugs will do to block it out, but it always comes back. All of my unprovoked anger goes on me, sometimes scarily so.

Again, though, this statement is about me, and my lack of understanding.

I normally rate myself ok at understanding stuff I read, in relation to human coping mechanisms. I have lived with people who have shown little remorse at what they inflicted on undeserving victims, and I still can't understand.

But, back to the cat, better it died in the hands of mother nature, than a human with confounding and perplexing destructive urges.

[Ocean Wolf]

meme, you have a point since it turned out to be a fox anyway. But if it had been a person, it still is often done by people like me as coping mechanisms. That is a pretty well-established fact. Although I guess it could have also been a revenge thing.

Roses, how does calling someone a sick fucker change anything? Does it keep it from happening? I like you, but I would appreciate if you did keep comments like that to yourself. If someone was saying that about borderlines on here, they would be kicked off for trolling.

Many people who hurt others can be caring and compassionate. To different people most likely, but it's not one or the other.

That is a possibility, although I can only speak for myself. When I asked for help with this, I as ignored. When I asked for help with other people hurting me, I was ignored and laughed at. No one else defended me but myself and I got punished for defending myself. I know for a fact that contributed to a lot of this kind of stuff.

For myself, seeing others receiving help and never getting any myself has created a beliefs that I still firmly believe. Like what is so wrong with me that I don't deserve what everyone else gets?

As for guilt, it gets warped.

I can't really say what goes on in another person's head. That's why I mostly talk about my own.

[roxy222]

I personally think calling 'anyone' a sick fuck is too judgmental, even had someone killed this cat, there are reasons behind this behaviour. Would you rather they killed a human? Because often like we may self abuse to stop us acting out on others, these people (who are ill) act out on animals to stop themselves acting out on humans. And yes, I don't like what has been done to animals by people who are ill but I would rather that then hear about someone going on a killing spree of humans than hurting an animal. My priority is with people.

Also despite animals being innocent victims I have more compassion for the tortured person that commited the act than the animal. Rather than judge and condemn I would much prefer to understand the person and try to help them to get better or learn better coping mechanisms to deal with their feelings.

People on here show compassion to others here that are abusive to their partners, yet call someone who harms an animal something as harsh and judgmental as a sick fuck! People are more important than animals, because we are people. I wouldn't expect another animal to defend us in such a way, I am sure they wouldn't care if we were hurt or injured, except to see us as their next meal for being defensless.

The person who harms an animal may have your best interest more at heart than you can possibly imagine. They may be considering you more than you ever consider them. It's easy to say well I've been abused and I don't hurt animals, but people cope differently, and some don't cope as well as others. It's not even about who has suffered the worse degree of abuse, it's simply about coping mechanisms.

Would you rather someone you know had been killed than a cat or even your own cat?

its very very common for people who torture and kill animals to go on to do the same to people, the reseach in this shows the relationship is v high

[roxy222]

Also, what makes you think I'm refering to you? Earlier, people were calling a hypothetical person like a "sick fuck" and questioning whether or not a person like that could still be referred to as a person. I tried pointing out a reason why that happens, but no one listened. They just kept up with that "sick fuck" crap. Maybe it shouldn't be bothering me still, but... Well, it's hurtful. And now, maybe it's just me overacting. It probably is and if so, I apologize. But it feels like (and again, it could just be that I was triggered to begin with) like people are saying "well, I went through abuse and I didn't end up that way. why do these people?" Again, it's possible that I'm jsut still triggered from having people like me insulted earlier.

appriciate that, it felt like you were directly replying to my convo with swt and saying i was insulting you, which i hadnt. thank you for clarifying. thin is a highly triggering subject for me due to the use of animal sacrfice in r/a and my background with this

[roxy222]

i find it hard to understand too, the more and more i remmeber about the past the more i realise how extreeme the abuse i went through was. rarely if ever do i come accross others anywhere who have been through the things i have and yet i dont hurt others, ever. i have hurt myself alot in the past, but much less so now. the thing that i find as an explaination for me is that despite how horrific the abuse and brainwashing was i did have some care from out siders, they may never have known what was going on or rescued me but there tiny imput i think was enough to let me know that there was another option in life, and i think when people grow up to take on the role of abuser it is because they dont get this option.

I think there is some truth in that.

You do get many caring compassionate people, with childhood abuse experience, who wouldnt hurt a fly.

Maybe, as you suggest, the people who do hurt others, had no support, or worse still, had their cries for help ignored, or even mocked and discouraged.

Maybe, even if they see others receiving help, they have a personal complex that help for them is an alien concept.

This is my very poor understanding at trying to fathom out mans inhumanity.

If I did understand it, I think I would cope with people better than I do now, in the same way, my resentment of my parents decreased somewhat, when I had the lightbulb moment about the degree of abuse indicates the degree of shit they went through in their own childhood.

I have lost my temper in the past with people, but it was provoked, and I was the most hurt in the end, as my tantrum was ineffective.

I am not being judgemental, and the following, is a statement about myself, in that, I cannot get my head around someone having the urge to hurt someone who hasnt hurt me. I think the guilt would drive me mad.

What do these people do with the guilt? there is only so much alcohol and drugs will do to block it out, but it always comes back. All of my unprovoked anger goes on me, sometimes scarily so.

Again, though, this statement is about me, and my lack of understanding.

I normally rate myself ok at understanding stuff I read, in relation to human coping mechanisms. I have lived with people who have shown little remorse at what they inflicted on undeserving victims, and I still can't understand.

But, back to the cat, better it died in the hands of mother nature, than a human with confounding and perplexing destructive urges.

i think anyone who abuses or hurts another living thing continues to do so so that they dont have to face the guilt, i think thats a big part of why most offenders of this type have a pattern of reoffending, most of which escalate as they go on. i think this type of offending, wheather abusing a child, attacking an adult or killing an animal or person, is all about not running from feelings, tranfering them onto an innocent victim or scapegoat (animal sacrifice in where this term first came from)

i allways knew my mother had a horrific childhood, i think i spent my whole life trying to figure her out, showing compassion, but that was a survival instinct to try and find some control, some way of figuring out how to change myself so that to avoid abuses. i think understand the facts is a good thing, but i dont think we need to show compassison for abusers, i think that its more important to keep this for ourselves to heal ourselves. at the end of the day she was an adult and had choices. now i am in that same position i choose to face my past rather than take it out on others

[Pink stars]

Oh that is so horrible! How can any one do something like that? I hope who ever did it gets caught

[Roses]

Fine. I get the point. But I think the lines between right and wrong are far too blurred here.

[roxy222]

i find it hard to understand too, the more and more i remmeber about the past the more i realise how extreeme the abuse i went through was. rarely if ever do i come accross others anywhere who have been through the things i have and yet i dont hurt others, ever. i have hurt myself alot in the past, but much less so now. the thing that i find as an explaination for me is that despite how horrific the abuse and brainwashing was i did have some care from out siders, they may never have known what was going on or rescued me but there tiny imput i think was enough to let me know that there was another option in life, and i think when people grow up to take on the role of abuser it is because they dont get this option.

I think there is some truth in that.

You do get many caring compassionate people, with childhood abuse experience, who wouldnt hurt a fly.

Maybe, as you suggest, the people who do hurt others, had no support, or worse still, had their cries for help ignored, or even mocked and discouraged.

Maybe, even if they see others receiving help, they have a personal complex that help for them is an alien concept.

This is my very poor understanding at trying to fathom out mans inhumanity.

If I did understand it, I think I would cope with people better than I do now, in the same way, my resentment of my parents decreased somewhat, when I had the lightbulb moment about the degree of abuse indicates the degree of shit they went through in their own childhood.

I have lost my temper in the past with people, but it was provoked, and I was the most hurt in the end, as my tantrum was ineffective.

I am not being judgemental, and the following, is a statement about myself, in that, I cannot get my head around someone having the urge to hurt someone who hasnt hurt me. I think the guilt would drive me mad.

What do these people do with the guilt? there is only so much alcohol and drugs will do to block it out, but it always comes back. All of my unprovoked anger goes on me, sometimes scarily so.

Again, though, this statement is about me, and my lack of understanding.

I normally rate myself ok at understanding stuff I read, in relation to human coping mechanisms. I have lived with people who have shown little remorse at what they inflicted on undeserving victims, and I still can't understand.

But, back to the cat, better it died in the hands of mother nature, than a human with confounding and perplexing destructive urges.

i think anyone who abuses or hurts another living thing continues to do so so that they dont have to face the guilt, i think thats a big part of why most offenders of this type have a pattern of reoffending, most of which escalate as they go on. i think this type of offending, wheather abusing a child, attacking an adult or killing an animal or person, is all about not running from feelings, tranfering them onto an innocent victim or scapegoat (animal sacrifice in where this term first came from)

i allways knew my mother had a horrific childhood, i think i spent my whole life trying to figure her out, showing compassion, but that was a survival instinct to try and find some control, some way of figuring out how to change myself so that to avoid abuses. i think understand the facts is a good thing, but i dont think we need to show compassison for abusers, i think that its more important to keep this for ourselves to heal ourselves. at the end of the day she was an adult and had choices. now i am in that same position i choose to face my past rather than take it out on others

i meant running from feelings, not not running from them, if that makes any sence

[Sammy]

In learning to understand my abuser and show compassion to him, it helped me heal. I am not naive and I am sure this is not possible in all cases and wouldn't even help in all cases, but for me personally it helped.

I do find it hard to have compassion for ALL types of abuse though, child abuse is a difficult area for me and I find it impossible to show compassion for abusers in that situation.

I can understand if ritual animal abuse was a part of your own abuse as a child, finding compassion in this instance difficult, but obviously not everyone here has suffered that.

However this is a site for people who have mental health issues in one way or another, that's why they are here, and it seems strange that they cannot show compassion for someone who is also ill like themselves.

I think it is a shame when an ill person is written off as bad because of one bad deed or bad urges, rather than seen for what they are as a whole and treated likewise.

Yes it is true that in some cases people that act out animal abuse go on to hurt or kill people, but that is even more reason to recognise the early warning signs and intervene and treat the person before it gets that far.

[Roses]

Which is why I said I hoped they got caught. So they can be helped/treated whatever they need.

[Ocean Wolf]

We don't get much treatment. There isn't even a name for what we have except BTK called it factor X.

The thing is, as I've said before, the animal killings, while horrible are often a coping mechanism by people who have... whatever it is... pretty bad. Calling them names doesn't stop them from killing animals and it won't stop them from moving on when it gets worse. According to what research there is, it does get worse as time goes on.

It's like an addiction even before we've acted. And it just gets worse over time until it gets really overwhelming.

[Ocean Wolf]

Edit: sorry accidentally double posted.

[roxy222]

In learning to understand my abuser and show compassion to him, it helped me heal. I am not naive and I am sure this is not possible in all cases and wouldn't even help in all cases, but for me personally it helped.

I do find it hard to have compassion for ALL types of abuse though, child abuse is a difficult area for me and I find it impossible to show compassion for abusers in that situation.

I can understand if ritual animal abuse was a part of your own abuse as a child, finding compassion in this instance difficult, but obviously not everyone here has suffered that.

However this is a site for people who have mental health issues in one way or another, that's why they are here, and it seems strange that they cannot show compassion for someone who is also ill like themselves.

I think it is a shame when an ill person is written off as bad because of one bad deed or bad urges, rather than seen for what they are as a whole and treated likewise.

Yes it is true that in some cases people that act out animal abuse go on to hurt or kill people, but that is even more reason to recognise the early warning signs and intervene and treat the person before it gets that far.

i actualy would have thought it would be more difficult for people with m/h to show compassion for those who commit criminal acts. i work with people who have scizophrenia and they often get upset if there is new about a pychotic criminal, they feel people belief they will also be violent, which isnt true, most people with m/h problems are less likely to be violent than the general population, and ofcourse because they are not violent the last thing the feel is compassion for some killer who blames their actions on m/h because they know themselves that pyschosis does not cause violence.

in the past iv worked with kids with learning disabilities, they would blame their behaviour on their adhd, and ofcourse as i have adhd i know thats no excuse, it may make someone more impulsive but it does not make anyone violent. i guess for the people i work with its the same kind of understanding.

criminal actions are not a direct result of m/h, there are lots of offenders who dont have m/h problems, and even those who do are often still legally classed as sane so clearly they have a choice. and ofcourse action should be taken to intervene early on, but even when it is not it in no way excuses later criminal acts

[Sammy]

Not in all cases no, but each person is different, each case of mental health problems is different, and sometimes yes psychosis does cause violence.

[Sammy]

Another important factor is a violent background. Individuals suffering from psychosis or neurological impairment who live in a stressful, unpredictable environment with little family or community support may be at increased risk for violent behaviour.

That is a scientific fact. So being provided with a stable environment and support such as where you work with these people can help to lower the risk factor.

[Ocean Wolf]

I don't think anything is an excuse. I think it's a reason. There is a difference. Yes, we should be held accountable if we do illegal actions, but calling people names still doesn't prevent stuff from happening. Actually trying to prevent the behaviors does a much better job.

It's easy enough to say someone doesn't have a mental illness when you don't have it. It's easy enough to say it doesn't exist when there isn't a name for it yet. It's easy enough to judge someone else.

[Sammy]

Statistics do also show that those with mental health problems that commit violent acts are greater than those without mental health problems. However, it is important to note that this is a broad statement and doesn't indicate which particular illness has the greatest rate, and could well be that one illness might have lower rates whislt another has the highest. Therefore the study is not particularly accurate and yes causes stigma on ALL those with mental health issues, even if they fall into the category where they are less likely to commit crimes or violence.