Would You Report Someone For Benefit Fraud?

[Roses]

((((((((((((((Sammy)))))))))))))))

Wish I was still niiave! xxxxx

[sundries]

( just like to say first sammy that i personally think we are incredibly lucky in britain for all the things you mentioned).

Ive been thinking more about things cos of this thread and im feeling a bit more sympathy for people who feel they 'need' to cheat (which is not to say whether i think its right or its wrong to report).

When you are 'recovering' epseically from something like a mental illness there can be a major problem.

hardly anyone will employ you. the anti discrimination laws arent much better either because after prologend illness especially if its started in early adulthood you CV isnt likely to be great or because it is so easy to find some reason not to employ someone that cant directly be caled discrimination.

So you cant get a job a) because you are unlikely to have good cv and because more than 70% of employers wouldnt even CONSIDER employing you even if you did.

So say you manage to get to the stage where you are able to do up to or more than 16 hours a week voluntary work. You decide you are 'well' enough not to be able to claim incapacity anymore. So you go on jobseekers.

a) jobseekers calculations for what it is necessary to live on underestimate considerably because based on very old calculations that havent gone up at the same rate as other things. jobseekers was never intended to be a long term benefit because the necessities it originally calculated for assumed you wouldnt be on it very long but you are likely to be if youve got a mental illness. c) you are working, maybe youve even gone up to full time hours now, in a voluntary position - yet 'earning' far less than the minimum wage (im including the benefits and other things like free prescriptions as wage).

I dont know im not saying cheating is ok, but i do think people shouldnt be put in the above situation. None of us are entitled to any salary really, however hard we work. Thats part of why the national minimum wage was brought in, so employers couldnt push down salaries by employing people who would work for the cheapest...and people needing to work for anything however small because otherwise they couldnt eat. I guess just cos you work for something doesnt mean you are entitled to it so why bring entitlement into it at all.

[Sammy]

This is where that free education comes in, where you can have something recent on your cv enabling you to get a job when you feel ready to.

[Ocean Wolf]

I brought entitlement into it because it's getting something for nothing. Getting paid for work is something for something. I actually can't understand in the slightest how someone cannot see the difference between the two. But if you seriously can't, benefit fraud (aka stealing) is illegal, getting paid for your work is not. In fact, it's protected by law, at least in Canada.

Personally, I'm likely to get pretty defensive if someone suggests that I am not any more entitled to the money I work for than the beggars who swear at me because I won't give it to them. And yes, there are some. They don't even bother to find out if I actually have any to spare. They just swear at me.

[sundries]

Nobody in any situation can go and buy a job off the supermarket shelves though. Quite often having a mental health problems means you are living in a recession like environment all the time cos hardly anyone will consider employing you. Jobseekers isnt enough to live on, toherwise it would be in line with the national minimum wage.

An ironic but kinda sad story though, from my own personal experience, i got the opportunity to do 2/3 hours 'work' a week for a student that i could do anytime at my house or thiers etc... 'cash or rather cheque in hand. i went to the disability advisor at the job centre he told me i was being ridiculous wanting to inform income support, it was too insignificent amount to matter and was within the £20 a week you are allowed to earn (on incapacity it is more like £80 i think, so a lot of people who seem to be 'cheating' might actually be doing permitted work but anyway). I went to the income support office and got pretty much same response so i put it in writing. They send me back this massive form to fill in asking details of company, employer, payslips!. I write back to them saying i dont get any of those so i cant provide them, its basically just paid work for a friend and enclose letter from friend indicating wouldnt be more than permitted amount (was mostly for only and hour and half a week anyway). So it was sorted in the end. But i was shocked by the DSA. Looking back actually i think i shoudl have reported him. Having been in the system i have had so many of the 'advisers' suggesting i cut corners here or keep quite there...but its not going to be them paying back the F money is it.

[roxyandboys]

I think it can be a very difficult thing to determine if someone is well enough to work or not unless you know them and know their situation, someone said to me recently that i was just sitting at home and not working becuase i was getting so much benefits that it wasn't worth my while to work. I have worked my entire life, never had a day off sick, was a professional educated and qualified person, i fell apart and now can hardly leave the house or make a phone call. Things do change. There are times when i come accross as being intelligent and organised, but i cant maintain that for more than a few days before i crumble. As for being employable, i used to work in recruitment and i'd certainly not employ me!

[Sammy]

Minimum wage is not based on what you need to live on, as it includes being able to afford some luxuries too, reward for working i guess, otherwise it would be pointless to work as get more or same amount on job seekers. Job seekers is to fulfill basic living needs without luxuries, and we got by on it just fine, yes we struggled and had to budget shop and no luxuries but we survived.

[Ocean Wolf]

Yeah I definitely think some people need it. I know I did when I was homeless. But then, as I've said, I got by on what I got. And I know that getting that was a privilege, so I'm pretty grateful for it.

And I understand that jobs may be hard to come by for some and, if they need help while looking, hey it's great to get some right?

And again, for me it would also depend on the severity.

I guess I just have a problem with people who don't understand that it is privilege. Well, and stealing and lying. But yeah.

[Roses]

In response to sundries thread I would like to say that I don't think you have to tell potential employers about your mental health history, only if you are working with vulnerable adults or children or such places. If you want a job at Asda or something I don't think they ask you about your mental health on the form.

[roxyandboys]

i count my lucky stars that i live in this country, many many places in the world there would be no financial support for someone like me at all. I'd like to thank all the tax payers of the world for making it possible for me to continue to live while i'm too ill to work

[Sammy]

Yes m2 Roxy! I feel grateful and privelaged regardless of whether it's still a struggle or not, because I know there are people so much worse off in unsupported countries.

[roxyandboys]

I recently wen through a massive employment tribunal, i lost the point about disability discrimination because although they were very well aware i had mental health problems i didn't tell them what my actual diagnoses was, my actual diagnoses of BPD i believ skewed the tribunals dealings with the issue anyway, what with it being such a stigmatised disorder

[Ocean Wolf]

I thank my lucky stars that I am in Canada and that my boss does not care if I'm nuts or not. (She's also mentally ill.)

[Sammy]

That's terrible Roxy, I'm so sorry!

[sinking]

I think it depends on situation