Do Older People Know More Than Younger People?

[walker]

the wise man knows he knows nothing

[AndyL]

So ur purpose to life is to learn wolf? Without learning there is no purpose?

I would take that as an axiom, wouldn't you? If you don't learn you don't grow. Might as well be a little blob of sphagnum moss. Or Paris Hilton.

[Sammy]

Yes if you know nothing it is wise to know so! The people I talk about should recognise they know nothing about me, that would be wise.

I've yet to meet someone who says they know nothing though, like I said the people I meet all think they know better or more and make uninformed assumptions about me.

I don't believe I am wise, I believe I know more than I'm given credit for and am fed up of being patronised by those that don't have the first idea about me.

I however do not make assumptions about them, or try not to for the majority of the time. Yes i explore people's motivations and suggest alternative reasoning but I don't come to a conclusion about a person without them telling me their perspective or thoughts or feelings. Because we're all different.

I'm coming off as arrogant and as if I know it all, but like I said I don't know it all. Everyone has different truths and different answers. I have discovered mine, therefore I know all regarding my life and myself, and yes although it should not matter to me what someone else thinks, I still choose to allow it to get to me when someone that knows nothing about me suggests they know me better than I do by making assumptions about me, by patronising me, by making remarks to me that suggest I don't know something, when for all they know I've done the research and do know.

I get the impression people are misunderstanding me and assuming I'm saying I know it all, but far from it. I'm talking about my own life, my own progression, my own choices, my own self awareness.

I'm not talking about on any kind of scientific biological level or psychic level, or answers to the questions of the universe for all, I'm talking about inner psyche, life learning, not academia or science.

I guess it's hard to put into words what I mean and what I feel.

[Sammy]

Andy I've not said that the purpose of life is not to learn, I asked a question of wolf, because she frequently says there is no purpose to life, but in her post it indicated that in fact there was purpose to life that of learning, and that without learning life would be pointless ie: purposeless.

So once again someone making an assumption of how I think based on a question I asked of someone, without asking what I thought.

[AndyL]

I think even immortal people would never learn it all unless everything (and I mean everything) becomes predictable. There are still experiences that may happen and I think an immortal person would still change over time (unless they're greek gods, those are pretty static). Then they would still have to learn about new aspects of themselves. Not to mention watching evolution and having new organisms to learn about. Or changes in human societies creating new cultures.

Just ask Wolverine. He was apparently born in the early part of the 19th century and he still hasn't learned to control his temper. :D

[Sammy]

I should have left it with the first post though and not responded to anything here as now I just sound like I'm whining, which I suppose I am really. This probably should have been in venting so as not to open it up to discussion, not to mention we went way off topic. The topic was not about learning and life, it was about older people knowing or thinking they know more about younger people. So I would ask people if they want to actually talk about life and learning to start another topic. Thanks xxx

[Sammy]

I guess my point is that people of ALL ages can know more than other people of ALL ages.

Someone younger might be more aware than someone who is much older.

Age indicates absolutely nothing! So just because I'm not as old as you don't ASSUME you know more than me. Maybe you do know more than me, just don't assume so because you might just be wrong.

And I talk about older people simply because A) I have rarely come across younger people that think they know more than me or make assumptions of me and When I have come across younger people that think they know more than me for some reason I find it easier to laugh at it.

But yes younger people I'm sure make the same mistakes and assumptions about people too and perhaps I should have talked about that in general and not brought age into it at all. It's just that I find it more common for older people to do this to me personally in my life.

[Sammy]

God so frustrated with myself now as I feel I just don't have the words to explain what I mean, like I've gone totally inarticulate over this subject.

[Sammy]

But then with all that being said and done, the people that know me know the truth about me. I guess that is all that is important in the long run, as Roses put it. And yes for the majority of the time that is my truth and my priority too and what others think doesn't matter. But now and then, and I'm sure every single one of you get this too, even if it's only now and then, someone says something about you or to you, makes a judgment of you, an assumption of you that really winds you up and gets to you in that moment, and today that was what happened for me.

Tomorrow however will be a new day and that persons comment will be far behind me, with once again those that matter being center stage and only their views and opinions of me mattering to me.

[catspiracy]

Sammy, perhaps it's stodginess and conservative, reactionary thinking that's bugging you. The old "if it was good enough for grampa, it's good enough for you" mentality. The old "we've always done things this way" attitude that some people age into (in contrast to aging into an open-minded attitude of wisdom).

If that's what you're venting about, I'm right there with you.

These sorts of generalizations about any demographic are always going to get us into troubled waters, because there are so many exceptions to any "rule", and people usually have values invested in their demographic group or that of someone about which they have strong feelings.

And I'm sorry this got you so frustrated...sometimes I get that way during philosophical debates, too. It can be triggering because it has a similar sensation as personal invalidation. You know it isn't though, I hope. ***HUGS***

[Ocean Wolf]

Andy I've not said that the purpose of life is not to learn, I asked a question of wolf, because she frequently says there is no purpose to life, but in her post it indicated that in fact there was purpose to life that of learning, and that without learning life would be pointless ie: purposeless.

So once again someone making an assumption of how I think based on a question I asked of someone, without asking what I thought.

Sammy, I still say and will continue to say that there is no purpose to life and I wish you would stop this. I never said that life was a purpose or that life would be pointless without it. Neither did I indicate it. You would know this if you read my answer, so please read my answer before putting words in my mouth. I'm sorry that sounds harsh, I do like you, but I would really like you to stop.

[Sammy]

Catspiracy you're kinda spot on. I was in tears last night because I couldn't articluate what I wanted to say and being able to articulate is something that's always been important to me.

Yes I guess I am fed up of wearing a mask to please the older generations with their conservative views on life and how we should live it and how we should think and feel.

I want to not only show who I am honestly and freely, but more than that want to burst or explode free from these constraints and just be me, crazy, free thinking, different, me. I feel the older generations judgements and assumptions of me hold me back and keep me tied down.

Wolf your first statement that you would rather die than stop learning was indicating there was purpose to life. I was not putting words in your mouth at all. You may have clarified your viewpoint in your next response, but I was talking about your first statement not your second when I was talking to andy - as to the reasoning behind my question.

[AndyL]

Hey, man, a question was asked and I chimed in with my li'l ol' opinion. The only assumption I made was the assumption that since the question was asked publicly instead of a PM that it was fair game for anyone.

And I do still wonder if the existence of Paris Hilton indicates a lack of purpose for human existence because she obviously hasn't learned anything, but maybe that's just me.

Anyway, great topic. Learning is a wide and varied subject. There's lots to say about it and I hope as many people as possible do.

[Roses]

I am actually getting a bit frustrated with this thread. I find this whole thread ageist, sorry Sammy.

These people starved themselves so we could vote, lay down their lives so we don't have to answer to a dictatorship regime. They bought us freedom of sexuality, freedom of choice whether to have children and whether to have sex with our husbands. They bought these things and so much more. Surely we can just smile and accept their opinion is just that, an opinion.

I'm sure it's nothing personal. xxx

[Data]

I still think there is a link between wisdom and age.... I am so much wiser now than when I was young. However, there is a link between obesity and diabetes but not every obese person is a diabetic lol.

I think that Roses is right when she brings up the danger of ageism. I think the answer is to take everyone on their own merits rather than making assumptions about them based on their age.

Perhaps I am just jealous because some of these young people seem to know as much as I know, and they are only 21? I don't know.

[quiteemma]

i guess i no nufin!! x

[AndyL]

Here's a bit of popular wisdom--take it for what it's worth.

Young people in general tend to think they know everything (my 15 year-old stepson truly believes he has the world figured out); the smart ones grow older and realize how much they, in fact, don't know. The morons read the supermarket tabloids and believe them. That's proof enough for me that older people in general know a lot more than younger people (except tabloid-believing idiots of any age). The fact that folks think otherwise reflects the general modern societal belief that old people are useless and should be thrown away towards the end of their lives.

The native Americans--and many other cultures throughout the world--believe otherwise. That's why tribal chiefs are usually pretty ancient and are always sought for advice and approval before any consequential action is undertaken. For example, even during the Wounded Knee uprising in the early 70s, the American Indian Movement consulted the tribal chiefs before, no matter how pissed off they were (and boy were they pissed off*), they did anything of real consequence.

Even of you don't respect that (and I think it's pretty profound, given how angry and young members of AIM were**), I think it's worthy of consideration.

-------------------

*Meaning angry, not drunk, you wacky limies.

**And of course now, 35 years later, they are the chiefs, and the experience and knowledge they acquired as they grew (with Wounded Knee being a touchstone event in their lives) inform their decisions now.

[AndyL]

I still think there is a link between wisdom and age.... I am so much wiser now than when I was young. However, there is a link between obesity and diabetes but not every obese person is a diabetic lol.

I realize that's meant in light-hearted way, but it's still specious. Not that I don't love you, meme.

I think that Roses is right when she brings up the danger of ageism. I think the answer is to take everyone on their own merits rather than making assumptions about them based on their age.

I thought ageism referred to discrimination towards the elderly. This sounds like a much broader definition. For example, would you trust a 14-year old on the road with a car? I don't care how well they think they know what they're doing, it's generally agreed that they don't. That's why there are laws providing age restrictions under which a driver's license can be obtained. I don't believe that's ageism, I believe it's common sense.

[Roses]

Yeah, my post was talking about the older generation so ageism is correct. I dont think there are any 14 year olds out there who fought in the second world war or burnt their bras for equal rights back in the day. This is a whole other topic yo uare discussing - underage driving - and in no way relevant.

[Roses]

and just to clarify that I mean none of the children who are 14 today, cos when these events happened they would not have been born.

[Data]

I still think there is a link between wisdom and age.... I am so much wiser now than when I was young. However, there is a link between obesity and diabetes but not every obese person is a diabetic lol.

I realize that's meant in light-hearted way, but it's still specious. Not that I don't love you, meme.

It was not meant to be lighthearted. I was merely making the point that although most people get wiser when they get older, you can't always assume that just because someone is old they are wise - or because someone is young they are not.

Some 14 year olds are probably quite capable of driving. The fact that it is not legal in most countries is a different issue.

[Sammy]

No it's not ageism in any way at all, as I have not said ALL older people, I've talked about those that I personally have come into contact with that make uninformed judgements or assumptions about me. That's a selection of people, not the entire population! And I think I have every right to feel a certain way about those that have invited themselves into my life and my opinionation by their patronising, judgmental and assuming nature of myself!

That also does not mean that I hate them as a person, or disrespect what they have done in their lives, it is simply my feelings on those particular people in that particular situation and that particular behavior that upsets me. How is that ageist in any way what-so-ever?

Yes I don't like being contrained by old fashioned and out dated points of view and opinion on what others expect of me based on what? Traditional and conservative ideas about how we should live our lives and what examples we should set? What is wrong with being unconventional, free, different?

And yes it is just their opinion, but then what makes them think they should try to push it on to me frequently and forcefully and think less of me because I don't do things the same way as them?

As a minor example: I don't like to wear shoes for a number of reasons. Firstly my feet and ankles swell up a lot and shoes worsen the pain I feel and secondly I like to feel free and grounded and with nature, going barefoot gives me this feeling that I like.

People that don't know me feel they have a right to comment on it and point to the nearest shoe shop etc...Or they'll look down on me because I'm not wearing shoes or they'll make snide remarks to one another loud enough for me to hear.

First off...why is it any of their business what I do or don't do with my life? Secondly if they feel the need to interfere perhaps try asking me why I'm not wearing shoes before making their own assumptions of why.

Just because it's 'traditional' and 'normal' to wear shoes when out and about, me not wearing shoes is not hurting anyone else, breaks no laws and in fact has no effect on anyone else.

This is just a small example of what I'm talking about. It doesn't mean that I hate the people that make the comments, in fact shortly after I don't remember the person at all, just the comment they made, I have no feelings one way or another about this person at all.

And whatever they have done good in their lives does not give them the right to have any kind of control over me or what I do, or give them the right to judge me poorly for being unconventional.

And as I pointed out, I'm not the one making assumptions of them, therefore it's not ageism at all, I make no judgments on their character what so ever. I've not said we should get rid of all old people. I've not said I hate old people. I've made no ageist comment at all.

[Sammy]

And yes exactly meme, that is the point I was making. Yes I may get wiser with age, but age is not an indicator of wisdom. Some people get so stuck by traditional thinking that they can't move forwards and thefore do not learn new ways of doing things. Others learn new ways from start to end, others still only begin learning when they are older.

So although you may gain more wisdom as you grow older, some learn faster than others, so comparing a random 20 year old, 30 yr old, 40 yr old and 50 yr old you would probably find that each one is not as wise in relation to age, the 20 yr old might for example have the least wisdom, the 50 yr old could be the second least the 40 yr old the wisest. (Just an example) Or in any other order. Being older does not mean you are wiser than someone else that is younger although you are probably wiser than what you yourself was when you were younger.

Does that make any sense or am I rambling?

[catspiracy]

Sammy, I find it commendable that you are doing your own thing, no matter what uptight commentary it elicits from the stuffy people you run into. Keep it up. Birds of feather flock together, and eventually you will attract kindred souls who also like to be barefoot, etc. If you don't act like "yourself", you can't attract kindreds because they won't recognize you.

[Sammy]

I do also know some older people that I for sure think are a million times wiser than me.

My topic was not necessarily about older people in general, just me having a whine about the ones that try to interfere in my life.

And I already conceded that some younger people think they know better too, as from meme's experiences.

The thing is I can only talk from my own personal experience not yours or his or anyone elses.

I also know younger people I am in awe of for their wisdom and feel humbled by them.

My topic was the complete opposite of ageism in fact as it highlights that actually anyone of any age can have wisdom, and that wisdom or knowledge was not reliant on age at all.

If I were ageist I'd be saying that either younger people are wiser or older people are wiser, one way or the other, but I am not.