Do Older People Know More Than Younger People?

[Ocean Wolf]

Personally, I'm more likely to listen to someone who has done it learned from experience than someone who didn't.

[Sammy]

Andy drugs are dangerous though! And of course we want to protect our children.

[Sammy]

But putting that in relation to the topic, I'm happy for my dad to form opinions of me and will listen to his advice (mostly) whereas my mum didnt' raise me has never tried to get to know me and knows nothing about me. I also find she knows very little and nearly everything she says is crap so don't really put much credence on what she says. She's one of those 'older people' I am referring to.

[Roses]

I was just saying to Mike last night that my grandparents' generation were incensed by Elvis 'the pelvis', and the man did was shake what he got and parents/Church came down on him like a ton of bricks for being immoral and sexual. Tall crimes indeed but in the grand scheme of things it's nothing. The Two Pints ending the other night saw Gazza choose his ex over his partner and child. I know it's a comedy but where's the morality in that? And the scary thing is it was voted for by the public (how it was going to end).

[Data]

Sammy, I just re-read your initial post. I didnt realise you are 31.

In a lot of peoples eyes you can be viewed as one of those 'old people' who believe they know best.

OMG 31 is old.. what does that make me at 36!

[walker]

sinc the entire threadd wass posted onm y bhhaaf then ii olld is 45

and xby not doing a vent u hav mangesd tio scsreew thus in my face fir 3 dayas

fact is i am fiailed and now littlwe but somrtiems brave enuf to sa y stuff

but like te whhole of myyyy life it gets smaaashed bac in my facccce

i idnt giv a f wht u do

but im sur u wil wanwwt the last word

[Ruth24]

I don't want to generalise, but i do believe that wisdom comes with age-but not necessarily understanding. some 18 year olds have experienced far more than a 40 year old has, and that is not a good thing! An 18 year old may have experience far too much than they should have, but that doesn't always mean they are wise to the world. I knew a 30 year old man who got engaged to an 18 year old. he told me she was mature for her age, however, she has only experienced 18 years of life despite what she has been through.. They have has less knowledge of life, but maybe more experience in certain aspects. Knowledge doesn't come with with just experience. It also comes from living life and learning and learning new skills. I wish i knew in my twenties what i know now in my thirties. i experienced a difficult childhood, but i wasn't knowledgable about life and all that comes with it

Thats just my opinion

[roxy222]

sinc the entire threadd wass posted onm y bhhaaf then ii olld is 45

and xby not doing a vent u hav mangesd tio scsreew thus in my face fir 3 dayas

fact is i am fiailed and now littlwe but somrtiems brave enuf to sa y stuff

but like te whhole of myyyy life it gets smaaashed bac in my facccce

i idnt giv a f wht u do

but im sur u wil wanwwt the last word

i dont know what this is about but im sorry you have been hurt

hope this doesnt happen againxx

[bibiddi]

The difference is bidibidi I don't make judgements on people before learning their motivations. I ask questions to find out why they do things a certain way before making any kind of judgement and even then it is on the action not on the person.

Although I don't see myself as 'old' quite yet.

Sammy, I just re-read your initial post. I didnt realise you are 31.

In a lot of peoples eyes you can be viewed as one of those 'old people' who believe they know best.

OMG 31 is old.. what does that make me at 36!

Sammy, I dont think its down to you as to whether others may view you as old or not. Its their opinion. A 19 year old may very well see a 31 yr old as old.

Meme, dont panic just yet! I'm not saying 31 (or 36)is old, just that others may perceive it as such.

Walker, I hope this thread isnt about you. I asked Sammy in an earlier post, and she didnt mention you.

But if something has recently happened, I can understand how you think it is.

Look after yourself, Walker.

[Sammy]

This thread is not about you walker, I've indicated at one person it's aimed at, but it's about people in real life not online.

[AndyL]

My point--because I think it was relevant to the topic--is that those baby boomers learned something through their experience. They learned that maybe drugs, and by extension, "doing your own thing" might not be as liberating as they thought when they were younger. It might, in fact, be self-destructive.

Funny (and this sounds like it invalidates my point, but I don't think it really does) I was reading the NY Times this morning, and it was saying that, as a generation, the baby boomers actually feel like they let their kids down, just as possibly their parents did. Off topic, but interesting.

[Sammy]

I understand that Andy, but when I talk about doing my own thing I'm not talking about self destructive behaviour, or else yes of course people would have a right to make judgments and comment.

[AndyL]

Right, but I think a baby boomer would tell you that he didn't think what he was doing was self-destructive either. It's just that he didn't know any better. Experience is the greatest teacher, to coin a phrase. Not that what you're doing is necessarily self-destructive. I'm just saying.

[catspiracy]

My point--because I think it was relevant to the topic--is that those baby boomers learned something through their experience. They learned that maybe drugs, and by extension, "doing your own thing" might not be as liberating as they thought when they were younger. It might, in fact, be self-destructive.

Funny (and this sounds like it invalidates my point, but I don't think it really does) I was reading the NY Times this morning, and it was saying that, as a generation, the baby boomers actually feel like they let their kids down, just as possibly their parents did. Off topic, but interesting.

I am so glad you wrote this, Andy! It kind of makes my point about how you can only be wise about an entire cycle if you witness the entire fricken cycle. And human cycles take an entire generation to unfold. Writing history books without the perspective of how the daily news formed a coherent cycle of history would be nonsensical.

So even if the cycle is like tree, rock, bush....only wisdom (experience + insight + perspective, is what I'm going to define as "wisdom" i guess) can say "Landscape". And that is another dimension higher than the sum of its parts.

I personally think we as a species are at a critical moment in our evolution. Everything is changing. I believe that the climate change is going to incur a huge human toll, and those that are left are going to be the adaptable ones who have stepped into Transformation. I hope I am ready. I embrace all Teachings to love one another. They come from all sides! All of my personal battles are training ground for this impending test of pure love. It's "The Grapes of Wrath" on a global scale. shit, I've gone and hijacked again, this is getting compulsive!

back to topic: Sammy, i think bibbidi has unearthed something important that you said. You've been trained to "respect" your elders, and they've been corrupted by that unearned tenure, abuse their power. Now I see why it's not even about "Age" to you, it's really been placed in a "Them against Us" campaign for you since the beginning.

I took a classes in Verbal Judo when i worked in group homes. Here's what the verbal judo website says:

VERBAL JUDO is offered as a 2-day training program. The principles and tactics taught enable graduates to use "Presence and Words" to calm difficult people who may be under severe emotional or other influences, redirect the behavior of hostile people, defuse potentially dangerous situations, perform professionally under all conditions and achieve the desired outcome in the encounter.

basically, what you do is listen and validate, ask plenty of questions to draw out where the person is coming from, validate some more. Then new choices emerge and you walk with the person into one of them.

You know what? I acknowledge that Projection is one of my main symptoms. So I am going to really practice turning my statements about others around and figure out their true origin/destination. I'm going to ask a lot more questions and stop going on what I THINK they are saying.

That diffuses the situation. The person feels validated and confrontation ceases to be on the table.

When you develop psychological martial arts you can even have extremely difficult conversations with extremely difficult people and not get upset. Sometimes they are so shocked by gutsy questions they become meek as a mouse. I've seen it with 18 y.o. gangbangers from south central and compton (my clients at the time). It's much harder to do with family members than gangsters!!!! My teen daughter terrifies me!

enough ramblin'

love

cat

[Ruth24]

sinc the entire threadd wass posted onm y bhhaaf then ii olld is 45

and xby not doing a vent u hav mangesd tio scsreew thus in my face fir 3 dayas

fact is i am fiailed and now littlwe but somrtiems brave enuf to sa y stuff

but like te whhole of myyyy life it gets smaaashed bac in my facccce

i idnt giv a f wht u do

but im sur u wil wanwwt the last word

Walker, my post was directly after yours and i failed to mention your post. For that i am sorry. This post, as sammy said, is not aimed at anyone in here. I'm sorry if my post offended you, it was not my intention

xx

[Ocean Wolf]

If wisdom comes with age, does that mean that someone older than me who I know who still lives with his parents, is a spoiled brat, and has temper tantrums like a two year old is wiser than me?

If wisdom comes with age, does that mean that someone older than me who I know who relies completely on his parents, can't hold down a job, is spoiled, and either whines or makes idiotic arguments... that guy is wiser than me too?

If wisdom comes with age, is my mom who still insists that not protecting her kids is a "parenting technique" wiser than me?

If wisdom comes with age, is my father who still takes out his frustration by abusing his family wiser than me? My father who still hasn't admitted that he does and has done that? My father who hasn't accomplished what I have?

If wisdom comes with age, is my friend's father who thinks his son is a failure for not living the life his father wants him to have instead of his own... is that guy wiser than me?

If wisdom comes with age, what's the point of trying to be better if no matter what I try, these people will always be considered "wiser" just because they happened to be born earlier? Not that life is fair or anything, but seriously... I don't care how much "wiser" these people are for being older. I have no respect for their "wisdom" and never will. And if they are considered "wise," wisdom isn't something I ever want.

Btw, none of these people mentioned are on the forum.

[catspiracy]

If wisdom comes with age, does that mean that someone older than me who I know who still lives with his parents, is a spoiled brat, and has temper tantrums like a two year old is wiser than me?

If wisdom comes with age, does that mean that someone older than me who I know who relies completely on his parents, can't hold down a job, is spoiled, and either whines or makes idiotic arguments... that guy is wiser than me too?

If wisdom comes with age, is my mom who still insists that not protecting her kids is a "parenting technique" wiser than me?

If wisdom comes with age, is my father who still takes out his frustration by abusing his family wiser than me? My father who still hasn't admitted that he does and has done that? My father who hasn't accomplished what I have?

If wisdom comes with age, is my friend's father who thinks his son is a failure for not living the life his father wants him to have instead of his own... is that guy wiser than me?

If wisdom comes with age, what's the point of trying to be better if no matter what I try, these people will always be considered "wiser" just because they happened to be born earlier? Not that life is fair or anything, but seriously... I don't care how much "wiser" these people are for being older. I have no respect for their "wisdom" and never will. And if they are considered "wise," wisdom isn't something I ever want.

Btw, none of these people mentioned are on the forum.

If Wisdom = Experience + Insight + Perspective, then none of those people are wise. And wise is not a wholesale concept, i think it appears in patches, like mange. ; )

[Ocean Wolf]

I think wisdom=experience+insight+perspective, but it seems a lot of people here just think it's the number of years someone was living.

[Sammy]

like mange lol!

Yeah I guess I need to break free of those traditional ideas that I'm constrained by as much as ignore others opinions of me based on them. I think I'm as guilty of constraining myself as them in some ways.

[roxy222]

i dont think any one person is in a position to judge how wise someone else may or may not be, especially dependant on age. someone may be wise with regards to one thing, but not another. an ofcorse it depends what kind of wisdow you value, i couldnt care less abotu academic qualifictaions of status (although i have that) or what someone may know abotu a certain subject, if they dont know themselves and how to care for and connect with others then it just wouldnt count as wisdom to me. just because someone ticks a box about age and experience does not automaticly mean i would find them wise, they may just have used their expoeriebce to cement their denial. and theres no logic in claiming people are only wise about something if theyv experienced it, some people are very instinctive and intouch with themselves enough to trust that instinct, theres plenty of people who have never been drink driving for example, doesnt mean they are not wise about it, quite the opposite. there is no defining factor to wheather or not a person is wise, it would be nieve to assume there is, it comes down to so much more than that in reality.

[Sammy]

You are so much better than me at putting things in words roxy so I would like to agree with what you say here.

[AndyL]

If wisdom comes with age, does that mean that someone older than me who I know who still lives with his parents, is a spoiled brat, and has temper tantrums like a two year old is wiser than me?

If wisdom comes with age, does that mean that someone older than me who I know who relies completely on his parents, can't hold down a job, is spoiled, and either whines or makes idiotic arguments... that guy is wiser than me too?

If wisdom comes with age, is my mom who still insists that not protecting her kids is a "parenting technique" wiser than me?

If wisdom comes with age, is my father who still takes out his frustration by abusing his family wiser than me? My father who still hasn't admitted that he does and has done that? My father who hasn't accomplished what I have?

If wisdom comes with age, is my friend's father who thinks his son is a failure for not living the life his father wants him to have instead of his own... is that guy wiser than me?

If wisdom comes with age, what's the point of trying to be better if no matter what I try, these people will always be considered "wiser" just because they happened to be born earlier? Not that life is fair or anything, but seriously... I don't care how much "wiser" these people are for being older. I have no respect for their "wisdom" and never will. And if they are considered "wise," wisdom isn't something I ever want.

Btw, none of these people mentioned are on the forum.

Okay, fellow BPDers, repeat after me:

The world is not black or white.

There are morons everywhere. Wisdom--like anything else except death and taxes--is not necessarily universal. You can't take the idea that because some older people are unwise, then all older people aren't necessarily wise.

There are always gray areas. And as far as I'm concerned regarding wisdom, where mental illness and/or imbecility are involved all bets are off.

[Ocean Wolf]

Um... no one said that. No one ever said that just because lots of older people are morons that all of them are. No one ever said that older people can't be wise.

What people were saying is that wisdom comes with age. I was pointing out how age is just the number of years that someone has been here and does not have a connection to wisdom.

So repeat after me

I will not project my own black and white thoughts onto someone else.

[Data]

OK heres another analogy. I'll probably get show down in flames for this one but never mind .

Consider height in people aged under 16. The older you are, the taller you become. The average 15 year old is taller than the average 10 year old. But, there are short 15 year-olds and tall 10 year olds. Some 10 year olds are taller than some 15 year olds.

Similarly, there are wise 21 year olds and naive 45 year olds. However on average people aged 45 are wiser than people aged 21.

[Ocean Wolf]

Ooh I like that analogy.

I do think wisdom comes with experience. Age doesn't necessarily mean more experience. It does help in a lot of cases, but is not a determining factor.

Oh and insight too.