Judgement, Predjudice, Thoughts And Feelings

[Missfit]

I haven't seen meme attack those on benefits, but say he has a problem with those who don't work & get NHS treatment etc, there's a difference IMO. Plus it's how he feels & we should all be able to say that & vent, nobody has to read or reply after all.

[roxy222]

This is a bit of a long one, so even if you are my friend, don't feel obliged to read it.....

Some issues have come up in me over the last week or so and they are very conflicting, confusing and contradictory. In general, my thoughts are often wildly different from my feelings and I struggle to reconcile the two.

Some people here judge me for being a heavy drinker. The implication is that I am making a choice, to find a path which is harmful to myself and my family. It makes me very angry when people judge me. My thoughts say that I am justified in being angry because - although you may be similar to a person, nobody is the same as me. If the people that judge me had my life experiences, they may choose to drink as well. And sometimes other people have learned effective ways of coping that I have not learned or which would not work for me if I tried them. They may also have ways of coping which are just as harmful as drink.

Some people have had alcoholic parents or carers who are abusive. My mother falls into this category and I have seen the look of terror on her face when I have been drunk and angry. I expect she had that same look as a child when her dad came home from the pub.....

The other thing is that, perhaps some people don't like the way I act when I have been drinking, I can be verbally aggressive, but I am managing to control this. Last night I got into an argument after drinking but it I think it was more a discussion than an abusive rant.

I am honest I also feel guilty for drinking. Then my thoughts say.. are people feeding on my guilt, for their own reasons? Or perhaps I am too sensitive to their attitudes because I have guilt.

My therapist says my alcohol consumption (about a litre of wine a night) should reduce through our treatment. And he is really good, I am prepared to trust him and work hard in therapy.

I have issues with people on here who are on benefits and not working and having NHS treatment. I have to go to work.. until 2007 I had an office job but at the moment I am a student who is paid a scholarship to do research. I have to suffer long commutes and sit through two hour meetings with my boss who talks incessantly and does not always listen. During those meetings I have to endure suicidal ideation, anxiety, depressed moods etc. I feel jealous that people have the freedom to not work, and seem to have better access to treatment than me. I have to pay privately for my treatment because I am having problems with my GP. Logic tells me that some people here have worse problems than me, they may really be struggling, and therefore need and deserve these "advantages".

Also if I think about it, I am not young any more (36 years old) and I have learned ways, by myself, of coping with problems. Many people have not been through that learning process. I realise some people may find me patronising saying that. When I was younger I was incapacitated and out of work for over a year due to my mental health issues, and I had a pdoc, mental hospitals, day centres, etc, so I know how it feels.

I think these feels of mine arise through my own fear. My wife is shit-scared that I will not be able to pay our mortgage since the funding for my research will run out next year and there is no guarrantee that I will have done enough work to get the thesis finished by then. Her fear is causing problems in our marriage and part of the reason why I avoid her. Eventually I will have to get a job; in the past I have had so many difficulties working with other people, its very stressful due to my BPD and I am really scared. On top of having this job I will have to finish off my studying which means my free time will be curtailed and thats going to make it really hard for me to just escape if I am having problems with my emotions. I thought doing a PhD was a dream come true but I am really scared about leaving this safe world of being able to work on my own, and work when I feel able (rather than 9-5).

Its not just about this forum. My psychotherapist wants me to discuss any issues I have with him. I am uncomfortable with him being a different skin colour to me. I am white and he is black. When I look at him I feel some anxiety because of this.

I ask myself the question: "am I a racist?". The answer is no. In fact recently I have clashed with people on a social networking site because of my anti-discriminatory stance. Years ago I resigned from a political party, partly due to my disgust at the snobbery and racial bigotry I heard from a few members. I have a good online friend who is both scottish and asian, I have met her in person three times I think. Recently I went on a conference with a lot of strangers and I struck up a friendship with a chinese guy, and really enjoyed talking about China and global affairs and he liked me talking about UK history. So, if I actually thought black people were inferior to me, would I act in this way? No! Apparently psychological experiments have shown that many people show an unconscious preference for faces of people with the same race as them. So, logic tells me not to be so hard on myself.. as long as you make sure you don't discriminate, its ok.

It does not change the fact that I find other cultures/races both interesting and scary. I don't like being scared of people just because of their skin colour.

I think when I was young my parents definitely had some racist attitudes. My dad has said several times that he supports a right-wing political party, which revolts and concerns me. Perhaps this is the root of the problem.

I am uncomfortable with the fact that my therapist makes money out of me. It makes me angry.

But then I think of how cheap he is (£35 a session), how competent he is (he is very well regarded in attachment theory), and how good our relationship is. I have done some self-employed work and I would be resentful if people expected me to work for free (I volunteer here but thats different). Paying for something means you value it and will make the most of it.

I think this anger arises out of my fear that I will have to terminate the therapy due to not being able to afford it.

So there you have it. I complain that people judge me, but out of fear and anger I judge them. I find ways to attack people when I am hurt. I am a hypocrite really, but at least I am a self-aware one who is working on my issues. And, most of the time I don't let unfair judgements get in the way of making good decisions.

one thing thats seems to stand out here for me is the lack of compassion you have for yourself. it becomes a whole lot easier to have compassion for others when you have it for yourselfx

[Data]

I notice that you ave mentioned my name in a later thread so people know it is us that argued.

I feel that it is inappropiate to mention names.

Your judgement may have been clouded due to our argument, but why attack those on benefits. Because you know i am?

I know we have cleared the air and agreed to disagree and i appreciated the fact that you gave us both the time to explain ourselves. But when reading the posts, i missed this one.

Just out of interest, who funds your PhD? Do you receive any kind of child benefits or tax credits? you don't need to answer those personal questions, but i would like you to think about it before you mention people on benefits

I don't want to fall out with you again meme, we have only just cleared the air, but i feel i have the right to reply.

I will not post and be argumentative again. you have a right to your opinion, but so do i.

I respect the fact that you have a right to reply and you are welcome to post again if it helps you or makes things clearer.

You say in one of your posts "You have deeply offended me, but that was part of your intention so i will not rise to it". Therefore I assumed people would realise we had argued.

The feelings that I expressed in my post were messed-up, but genuine ones. I have had jealousy about the not-working thing for a while, even before our argument. As I said, it is fuelled by my anxieties that I have over my personal situation.

75% of my stipend comes from a government quango, and I do get tax credits. I am a lot better off financially than people on benefits! And my mental health is probably better than many people on this site. When you are upset and angry, as I was after our argument, its easy to look at aspects of other people's lives and envy them. But I failed to see the big picture and for that I am sorry - but the picture is clear to me now thanks to the replies that I have had. Whenever I get this jealousy I can just remind myself now that it is irrational, other people here are not better off than me, far from it.

I am a mess of fear and anger and jealousy and bitterness and I am not always aware of my motivations behind my actions. That is a very dangerous thing and something which is improved and I am continuously working on.

But as I said my feelings were genuine and part of my reason for being here is to help me work through them. I tried to be balanced in my initial post and explain that although I had these negative feelings, I realise that they are illogical.

I am confused. Although I was angry at you Ruth because of our argument and I know you do not work, I know that any jealousy about that is wrong and silly. Maybe it clouded my judgement, making me decide to talk about it, to show you how angry I was. I am honestly not sure now what was going through my mind when I posted it.

I did not realise so many people would be upset. You might find that hard to believe. But I am not a troll, I am just a person who is too honest. If I wanted to be a troll I could do a better job than this !!!

Perhaps my mistake was to not emphasise enough that I realise that these feelings are illogical and negative and hurtful. But maybe I should have just not posted at all and said these things to my therapist instead.

However, the thread seems to have been hijacked a bit and stirred up a lot of trouble and I deeply regret starting it.

[DaisyChain]

Personally meme I think you were right to post what you did. It is easier to find some understanding in our thoughts and actions when it is written down in black and white. I also think you were very brave for posting what you did. And I am pleased that you are working through these things.

I understand that you and Ruth have had disagreements and this may have fueled the original post, but looking back over what you have written you have been open and honest and thoughtful, I think that should be commended not shunned. I read your post not as a personal attack of people on benefits, but as one from someone frustrated and possibly fearful of losing so very much and feeling envious of others that wouldnt lose these things, and also someone that felt attacked for being WHO they are, with the issues that they have.

Take care, Daisy xxx

[Data]

Thank you for your kind words DaisyChain, and for your understanding - it means a lot.

I have worked through my feelings, but have also triggered off many more unpleasant ones. I think I have lost Ruth as a friend, and Sammy seems to have spent the night fending off trolling posts.

Perhaps in the future I should stick to "(((hugs)))" posts. But then when people on here say they like me it will mean nothing. They won't actually get to know me, they will just be reacting to the nice side of me.

[Ruth24]

Thank you for your kind words DaisyChain, and for your understanding - it means a lot.

I have worked through my feelings, but have also triggered off many more unpleasant ones. I think I have lost Ruth as a friend, and Sammy seems to have spent the night fending off trolling posts.

Perhaps in the future I should stick to "(((hugs)))" posts. But then when people on here say they like me it will mean nothing. They won't actually get to know me, they will just be reacting to the nice side of me.

Meme,

Keep in mind the elastic band! We have argued in public, ooh, i feel like I'm on Jerry Springer

Life is too short for arguments. We trigger each other, its nothing personal, we both know that.

We are both old fools and should know better at our age

Give me a ((((((((hug))))))) and put an end to all this

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Data]

:grouphug[1]: for all my friends, but particularly DaisyChain, Missfit, Roses, Ocean Wolf, and Sammy

And a special for Ruth.

[heather123]

Do you not think you are being a bit righteous and judgemental about meme's comments Narinda et al? Is there not a part of you that understands his perspective and realises it was probably fleeting and he vented it here, which he's probably not going to be able to forget now as it's going to trigger many people's own ego's to defend themselves. I thought it was pretty well known with bpd that people think one thing one minute and then their paragigm changes . That is the downfall with sites like this, you actually use the word 'friends' and that is based on typed messages, commmunication is based 90% (guessing but it's a lot!) on body language so people are going to misunderstand frequently arn't they? I get annoyed with everything and everyone at times. I'm annoyed that people appear to be ganging up on someone for something they said. I'm having to control the urge to ridicule you narinda for the essay on ego. i have to remind myself that my annoyance is based on limited imformation, i don't know you so it's unfair to react. It's always to do with the thinking about that particular thing which may be correct or incorrect but more importantly it's not really my business, and while it's popular to have opinions on everything, it's those opinions which limit our perception and seperate us all. If we didn't judge each other and just accepted that for whatever reason, be it cultural in your case narinda our thoughts and opinions on things may differ, people's ego's wouldn't be triggered in a negative way. You don't know any better than anyone else, we all know nothing. I take it everyone comes to this site because of personality issues and that is what we have in common and we can share our experiences of that. I must be having a good day becuase right now i think if anyone said anything to do with me i wouldn't care but the fact is that there are many moments when that isn't the case and wrong words could trigger a lot of pain, and once the words are written they can't be taken back. Personally when i use this site i'm going to acknowledge but basically ignore everything other than personality disorders and related. eg. I'm left wing, meme is right wing - but it is irrelevant. I realise when we write our little pieces or essays in narinda's case! (joke) for those moments we are part of something a safe distance away where we can be righteous or smart arses and it's a little stroke for our ego. I can feel it now as i get my two pence worth in! I also know that getting into other people's business is a distraction from my own problems or pain. The time spent here writing this is time lost in dealing with my own business and sorting my own problems out.

You asked if i was having therapy meme. No. I'm always on a waiting list but i move around a lot so never get to the top and money is never stable either. I keep going from job to job but have to leave because i start thinking people are judging me negatively, start having panic attacks and get suicidal. I had a bad relapse recently and have just got out of hospital after an almost successful attempt at murdering myself which i have only done once before years ago and i don't self harm physically usually. It's brought me to the attention of the local mental health team who are wanting to help me 'stabilise' at the minute. It will still be a long long wait for some effective therapy with someone who is qualified so i'm at a cross roads at the minute. I am staying with my senile nan at the minute as i haven't got anywhere to live and she's is all i've got. I could get a place to live and go on benefits whilst waiting for the therapy and maybe do a course or two and get some friends or i could get a place to live whilst on benefits and immediately get a job when i have a home and find a therapist and hope that the therapy will help me stick the job out. I do support work ironically. I could find a live-in job asap but it's not having my own home which has lead me to get so bad recently so i don't know. I was at university years ago, 30 now, but couldn't do it as i've been socially phobic or avoidant since school it became unbearable and university was hell. Most jobs are hell but it's better to be busy for me and i like to have money. I don't really know what i'm doing at the minute, i'm mostly gutted i'm still here. I'm changing anti-depressants and would like to finish my degree. I would love to do research in social psychology, but i wonder now if that's some irrational fantasy. I just don't know. It's early days for you with the pychotherapy, whats his approach to the bpd i've spoken to loads of therapists and they've mentioned mentalisation and dialectical behaviour therapy is good. Off now to contemplate my life!

[Brokenangel]

Hello Heather123 Narinda here. I would have hard time make bigger hurt to explain more clear. I want to be friend with meme only worry for small child. I got fact from website to do ego. Man has ego hurting meme was my mistake. I cried with no sleep in the past night as great mistake was taken from me.

Narinda

[heather123]

As you can see from the length of my message it took me quite a while as i was doing jobs in between and things have developed since then! Apologies for going on and getting involved and i'm glad you've sorted it out. As you can see i'm new, and don't visit often so i wasn't aware of your histories with each other. Also seeing my message it looks like i'm seeking attention so please don't rise to it. It wasn't relevant what i said. I'm gonna just butt out now! I just hate people judging each other and me, it's a major issue so i jumped in. Sorry guys.

[Ruth24]

Hello Heather123 Narinda here. I would have hard time make bigger hurt to explain more clear. I want to be friend with meme only worry for small child. I got fact from website to do ego. Man has ego hurting meme was my mistake. I cried with no sleep in the past night as great mistake was taken from me.

Narinda

Narinda,

I understand that you have problems getting yout point across because of the language barrier. some of what you have said has been taken the wrong way. I am sorry i did not try harder to understand

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[heather123]

Narinda,

I know you only meant well and like i say i'm sorry i got involved.

[Brokenangel]

Thank you friend for seeing me meaning well. Happy day wishes.

Narinda

[Data]

Do you not think you are being a bit righteous and judgemental about meme's comments Narinda et al? Is there not a part of you that understands his perspective and realises it was probably fleeting and he vented it here, which he's probably not going to be able to forget now as it's going to trigger many people's own ego's to defend themselves. I thought it was pretty well known with bpd that people think one thing one minute and then their paragigm changes . That is the downfall with sites like this, you actually use the word 'friends' and that is based on typed messages, commmunication is based 90% (guessing but it's a lot!) on body language so people are going to misunderstand frequently arn't they? I get annoyed with everything and everyone at times. I'm annoyed that people appear to be ganging up on someone for something they said. I'm having to control the urge to ridicule you narinda for the essay on ego. i have to remind myself that my annoyance is based on limited imformation, i don't know you so it's unfair to react. It's always to do with the thinking about that particular thing which may be correct or incorrect but more importantly it's not really my business, and while it's popular to have opinions on everything, it's those opinions which limit our perception and seperate us all. If we didn't judge each other and just accepted that for whatever reason, be it cultural in your case narinda our thoughts and opinions on things may differ, people's ego's wouldn't be triggered in a negative way. You don't know any better than anyone else, we all know nothing. I take it everyone comes to this site because of personality issues and that is what we have in common and we can share our experiences of that. I must be having a good day becuase right now i think if anyone said anything to do with me i wouldn't care but the fact is that there are many moments when that isn't the case and wrong words could trigger a lot of pain, and once the words are written they can't be taken back. Personally when i use this site i'm going to acknowledge but basically ignore everything other than personality disorders and related. eg. I'm left wing, meme is right wing - but it is irrelevant. I realise when we write our little pieces or essays in narinda's case! (joke) for those moments we are part of something a safe distance away where we can be righteous or smart arses and it's a little stroke for our ego. I can feel it now as i get my two pence worth in! I also know that getting into other people's business is a distraction from my own problems or pain. The time spent here writing this is time lost in dealing with my own business and sorting my own problems out.

You asked if i was having therapy meme. No. I'm always on a waiting list but i move around a lot so never get to the top and money is never stable either. I keep going from job to job but have to leave because i start thinking people are judging me negatively, start having panic attacks and get suicidal. I had a bad relapse recently and have just got out of hospital after an almost successful attempt at murdering myself which i have only done once before years ago and i don't self harm physically usually. It's brought me to the attention of the local mental health team who are wanting to help me 'stabilise' at the minute. It will still be a long long wait for some effective therapy with someone who is qualified so i'm at a cross roads at the minute. I am staying with my senile nan at the minute as i haven't got anywhere to live and she's is all i've got. I could get a place to live and go on benefits whilst waiting for the therapy and maybe do a course or two and get some friends or i could get a place to live whilst on benefits and immediately get a job when i have a home and find a therapist and hope that the therapy will help me stick the job out. I do support work ironically. I could find a live-in job asap but it's not having my own home which has lead me to get so bad recently so i don't know. I was at university years ago, 30 now, but couldn't do it as i've been socially phobic or avoidant since school it became unbearable and university was hell. Most jobs are hell but it's better to be busy for me and i like to have money. I don't really know what i'm doing at the minute, i'm mostly gutted i'm still here. I'm changing anti-depressants and would like to finish my degree. I would love to do research in social psychology, but i wonder now if that's some irrational fantasy. I just don't know. It's early days for you with the pychotherapy, whats his approach to the bpd i've spoken to loads of therapists and they've mentioned mentalisation and dialectical behaviour therapy is good. Off now to contemplate my life!

heather,

Thanks for your open-minded and supportive views.

Although discussion of politics is discouraged on this site but I must say I am not right-wing. I was centre-right in my youth and I am centre-left now on most issues.

My father veers between centre-right and far-right politically, but I am not my father . I accept him as a person despite our differences.

You story sounds terrible, I am sorry you are having to wait so long.

I too had to leave university but I completed my degree with Open University.

I have never heard of mentalisation but DBT is very popular.

My psychotherapist is attachment-based. I will perhaps say more when I am further into the therapy.

[Roses]

Wow, thanks for the hugs Meme and everyone has been busy typing. I am sorry I was not on late last night or today much. I wanted to say to Narinder that I think you are doing a great job if trying to make new friends considering your language barrier, and that you should feel free to comment and we, as a community, should be understanding that you are not meaning to offend anyone. xxx

Meme, as I said to you before, you have every right to air your opinions and thoughts like any of us have. xxxxx

[roxy222]

just wanted to add a quick point to this thread if ok, why is everyone so angry about attention seeking? why is that seen as a bad thing? so what if meme knew this post would get replies or reaction if he wanted to discuss this then that is his right. as a support forum it is kind necessary to look for attention to find support, otherwise wed be better off writing in a journal. human beings are social creatures and part of that is seeking out attention. some negative attention seeking behaviours can be detrimental (mostly to the person themselves) but to be able to interact and find support people have to 'seek' attention in the first place!

[Roses]

Spot on Roxy xxx

[Ocean Wolf]

Well said, Roxy. I would also like to add that, personally, I think it's great when someone can admit to their faults (and the fact that they are faults) and work towards getting better.

[Data]

just wanted to add a quick point to this thread if ok, why is everyone so angry about attention seeking? why is that seen as a bad thing? so what if meme knew this post would get replies or reaction if he wanted to discuss this then that is his right. as a support forum it is kind necessary to look for attention to find support, otherwise wed be better off writing in a journal. human beings are social creatures and part of that is seeking out attention. some negative attention seeking behaviours can be detrimental (mostly to the person themselves) but to be able to interact and find support people have to 'seek' attention in the first place!

Thanks for the message of support, roxy.

Although some people may not believe this, I am more likely to be guilty of being self-absorbed or inconsiderate than attention-seeking. I am often stuck in my own little world of emotional turmoil and I don't consider how what I say affects others. I perhaps should have worded my original post better or maybe brought it up with my therapist instead of posting here.

[catspiracy]

Regarding drinking, it's a fact that alcohol goes straight to the rage center of the brain and stimulates it at the same time as suppressing inhibitions that might keep one from acting out that rage. So I would be concerned that your drinking is exacerbating your anger issues. Getting defensive about drinking will only interfere with recovery. I think you're making important steps in identifying that you have this issue or that one, and you'll eventually comprehend at a deeper, significant level that you can do better without abusing alcohol.

Also, I reallllly hope you don't think it untoward of me, but I wanted to ask you about another condition that sometimes you remind me of. I have several friends and have taught students with Asperger's Syndrome, and sometimes I get a similar feeling from you, Meme. Do you know anything about AS or ruled it out of your diagnosis?

As far as racism goes, feeling uncomfortable around black people as opposed to persons of creamier complexions would def. be deemed "racist" over here, and could get your ass kicked if you said that out loud in front of the wrong people. I appreciate your honesty regarding it, and I realize that you said it in an effort to transform, and that strikes me as both brave and reckless. Perhaps a desensitizing process where you actually spend MORE time around black/mixed groups would help alleviate your racial anxieties. Soon you would be forced to come to terms that people are people, no matter how much melanin their skin cells possess. After all, evolutionary genetics proves that we ALL descend from a black African "Eve"! So you (and I) are kind of an albino black person.

[silent187]

Heya meme,

I jus wanna say well done for being able to communicate your feelings, its not an easy thing to do. Its only natural that some feelings will clash, but im glad u have an insightful mind are working on ur issues. I hope ur not discouraged to post ur feelings in future

I wish you every success with ur t and your future.

Peace and love

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi meme

As I read your post, I felt genuinely encouraged. You are doing something that very few people seem able to do, and which I think is very important - you are acknowledging those parts of yourself that bring you a sense of shame.

Many people can quite happily talk about their pitiable faults - "Im too boring; Everyone hates me; I screw everything up; Im useless". These are easier to bring up because they are more likely to engender sympathy. However, the things you bring up are possibly ones that you know in the past have been sources of conflict for you, and that possibly bring that sense of shame.

Theres an analogy that seems to fit well here, about a man who is in a large darkened room. There is one candle in the middle of the floor providing a tiny illuminated circle, and he must find the key to get out of the room. He stays around the candle, only looking there because the light reassures him. But he spends days, weeks and months never finding the key because all the time, it was out in the dark. He doesnt realise that darkness is his friend, and if only he was brave enough to look there, he would find his key.

You are looking in the dark, and although it is scary and brings up issues that frighten and even threaten you, sometimes through others reactions, it is by facing those parts of ourselves that we want to deny that we can truly come to accept ourselves. Personally I admire you for what you are doing. Its hard to admit things we know others will judge us for - but we cannot change anything that we seek to deny, and whats more punishment never changed anyone - it just pushes the drive towards it out of sight, but not out of mind. Only acceptance and understanding can genuinely lead to changes.

Ross

[Roses]

Could you not pick the candle up and take it with you around the room?

[hummm_mabbe]

Could you not pick the candle up and take it with you around the room?

No

You cannot

**spanks Roses**

[Roses]

LMAO Rossy-bunny!!!!