DaisyChain Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Some people have a need for it, for attention, for understanding, for control, for power, many reasons I guess. An intelligent or manipulative person knows that they are doing this and continue for some kind of personal achievement. Dependent on the controversy and the arena it is displayed in I guess would depend on the base reason. Im not sure Im making sense here, but I wanted to discuss, or other people to discuss their feelings on controversial topics. Controversy on the forums sets off a fear within me, I want to run away from it, yet I am drawn into looking at it, yet I know if I get involved in it, I shall be sucked in, beaten and spat back out. I dont have the intellectual capabilities to argue and win. I guess what I want to say is, that I see controversy on these forums and that they are projected by the abuser as being bullied, yet they manipulate and spread discomfort amongst people that already have terrible real life issues to deal with. If someone truly wants help, wants advice they would be eager to listen to others opinions, not begin battle about insults and misconception. Any thoughts x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I agree with this completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 ABSOLUTELY i am badly triggered by events and certain people not THEIR fault but i am Haveing been stalked by an abused person - i can say they poured their own abuse onto us and sat back to look like a victim some people are very very good at this shit i dont even know if i do it but it is happening here for sure and NO it will NEVER end because they feed off the attention believe me - the stalking only ended when i finally managed to force my husband to disengage it took 4 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barebones Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Hi daisy, this is a very brave topic to start. I do understand and guess agree with it. This topic could go two ways, i just see black clouds ahead just now. Thanks for opening it up, it will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 ok i wont reply anymore cos i am badly triggered just now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaisyChain Posted August 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Im sorry that you are triggered walker ((((hugs)))) IM glad you understood my point Roses, thanks for your support Barebones I guess I know there is the possibility that this topic could go "belly up" so to speak but I just wanted to get off my chest what I was feeling, and discuss it to try and make some sense of it. It isnt the first time everything has gone this way on the forums. Walker, please talk as much as you want to, its ok to talk xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 It seems to have a cycle I feel Calm - arguementative - meltdown - quiet - jokey Rinse and repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 personally i think its the actual matter itself thats important. i dont care how contriversatial certain things are if speaking about them keeps children safe, thats comes before everything else for me. not saying that all contriversal topics do that. i hate ignorance and denial and dishonesty and find i despise myself as lowly as these things if i dont have the courage to speak out. this is not directly bout these forum btw, thinking bout alot of work situations and training situations that this relates to at present also, more so actually. personally i feel annoyed if i feel that i am expected to put managing other adults emotions before protecting the rights of a child, i find that corrupt, just nbecause i have the emotional intelligence to be sensitive to others doesnt mean i automaticly should put thsi above honouring what is right (specially when that person is old enough to be my bloddy m, in a much greater position of power than me, and much more qualified). like i say, relates to work stuff. as for here, well i dont have a problem with contraversial stuff, but i do with nastiness. but i apprciate that arguements/disagreemenst whatever can b v triggering for others, and i wish that was something thats could be changed by reducing the nastiness because there are maybe many people who have valuable and valued opinions who stay away because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 “The most savage controversies are about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way” The recent controversial statements on this forum (which I believe you are referring to) are likely to elicit a ’Right! or Wrong!’ type of response from the community, in effect, asking them to take sides. I don't believe this is entirely intentional on the part of the writer. How many mental illnesses are characterized by an inability to read social cues and such like? It's a mental health forum with alot of mixed emotions and people have difficulties with social interaction so all may not be quite as it seems. Anyway, I believe it is important that this kind of 'Right!' or 'Wrong!' way of thinking is followed up by proper discussion which makes a more in depth exploration of the real issues (behind the controvery) possible. So, although I can understand completely that the writer may be viewed as manipulative, 'manipulative' is a derogatory term so often misused regarding people with BPD that the use of it's word here in this post strikes me as a bit 'pot calling kettle'. I am going to put my neck on the line here and convey my view that this post is also, too, controversial and has indeed triggered my 'Wrong!' response. I am however open to discussion ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 OK well this topic is obviously about me and my posts. I am not going to respond right now because I am triggered beyond belief. I may respond later on when I have had a chance to re-read what everyone has said and think on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 to be fair i think yes your posts play a big point of refernece behind this thread, but also there are others out there also, think of the person a while back accussing everyone of being racist despite their assumption being based on misreading of posts. so this thread will have a general relevnce also, like i found i v relevant to alot of work stuff at present, which makes it brave of dc to post. hope you can take acre of yoursef while triggered. your calm contribution to this would be valued by me atleast (i hope others too)x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart1976 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Some people have a need for it, for attention, for understanding, for control, for power, many reasons I guess. An intelligent or manipulative person knows that they are doing this and continue for some kind of personal achievement. Dependent on the controversy and the arena it is displayed in I guess would depend on the base reason. Im not sure Im making sense here, but I wanted to discuss, or other people to discuss their feelings on controversial topics. Controversy on the forums sets off a fear within me, I want to run away from it, yet I am drawn into looking at it, yet I know if I get involved in it, I shall be sucked in, beaten and spat back out. I dont have the intellectual capabilities to argue and win. I guess what I want to say is, that I see controversy on these forums and that they are projected by the abuser as being bullied, yet they manipulate and spread discomfort amongst people that already have terrible real life issues to deal with. If someone truly wants help, wants advice they would be eager to listen to others opinions, not begin battle about insults and misconception. Any thoughts x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart1976 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I think you've put that really well, and I completely agree good on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I personally think that with regards to meme's topics, that certain people on the forum here are obsessed with him and with harassing him and trying to bring him down at every opportunity. I think those people don't look at the wider picture within his posts but pick through it to find one sentence they can use to attack him. I also think that most of the people posting on this forum are posting for support and attention. They want to be heard and validated and I don't see what the problem is with that. I don't feel I know enough about meme's relationship to say that he is 'an abuser', perhaps he does things on occasion that may be termed as abusive, but then that happens in most relationships at some point or another, whether it be us losing our temper and shouting at the other person, pushing past them because they won't move and we feel disrespected and trapped, name calling etc... I don't think doing these things on the odd occasion makes someone an abuser. An abuser is someone who has repetitive poor treatment towards others. If an abuser was someone who once or twice pushed someone out the way and once or twice shouted at them then nearly everyone would be an abuser, and in fact it would mean that meme's wife was an abuser too for shouting at him and smashing plates etc... (I hope you don't mind that I've used you for my example meme and I apologise if you do) I guess also those people that persistently seek out meme's posts and attack him could be classed as abusers too by this reasoning. That's not to say I feel that way, I'm just making the point based on your own reasoning not mine. I've been abused and I find it offensive to put meme in the same category as my abusers, because he doesn't even come close! Meme posted a list of things he'd like to work on, recognising some of his faults and willing to change. That IS the overall picture, the one that counts and that shows his post was not a controversial post at all, but a positive post. I have no doubt, had it been myself or one of the other posters in this thread listing their faults and what they'd like to work on it would not have been viewed as controversial at all and everyone would have congratulated and praised us on recognising the areas in our life to work on as well as supported us in achieving those goals. However because it was meme posting, those people that have been continually harassing and attacking him for several weeks now all ran to his thread and picked out one sentence, hi-jacked his thread and focussed entirely on that one sentence instead of the overall picture, totally destroying his chance of receiving help and support from less biased people on the forum and scaring others away. Now I'd say that was pretty manipulative and serving their own agenda if you ask me! I'd also speculate that it wasn't even about projection because that is a subconsious occurance and I believe this was a pre-meditated plan. Why do I think this? Because these people have openly stated their dislike and disapproval of meme, even refusing to talk to him in the chatroom and so why visit his thread at all? Why not just leave it be and allow others to support him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Can we please keep this on topic and not go off discussing meme again? Perhaps if the meme stuff needs to be discussed a separate thread should be opened. There are many people who are attention seeking on here and I am probably one of them. I think we can all be like that sometimes. Just, please don't make this all about meme again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaisyChain Posted August 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 A couple of things I wanted to say about the original post, I've typed this once and lost it so forgive me if I dont make much sense. I do not use the term manipulative as being derogatory. Someone that manipulates must have a degree of intelligence in order to utilise it. Children and animals manipulate things as a means of survival. I dont personally see either attention seeking or manipulation as being derogatory terms, they are only negative terms if they involve someone harming someone else for their own benefit, which isnt what I was directly saying. In relation to MEME, this isnt a post entitled MEME nor is it forcussed on him. This post relates to controversy, if the boot fits!?! However I dont want this to be yet another topic about whether this is MEME right or MEME wrong. I replied to his other post, please let me have mine! Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Can I just say the person that was accusing everyone of being racist was most likely in my opinion a troll anyway, which is very different to a genuine forum member posting topics that become controversial. I didn't think they were a troll at the time, but it seemed odd to me that they called everyone racist and continued to do so for as long as people argued back and were defensive. At some point I encouraged people to calm down with being defensive and support the poster instead and identify why she felt so insecure with regards to feeling everyone was racist and offered sympathy to those feelings. Once there was no longer any arguments, defensiveness and upset on the forum she suddenly disappeared! To me that smells like troll material only interested in causing upset and affray in the forums. Leaving when her goal wasn't achieved. I'd also like to say that just because a thread may become controversial it doesn't mean it was originally a controversial topic, but some people can turn anything into an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Sammy - why are you mentioning a racist incident - are you referring to what fierce anna said in another post? Because if you are that is an entirely different racial issue. I know about the one you are referring to (troll) but equally I know about the one fierceanna was referring to because I have seen the posts (wasn't a member at the time but that's not the point). You are off base I think Sammy. To be fair, neither the other post (meme's) nor this one (daisychain's) was a place to mention the racism thing and fierce anna was wrong to fling that in meme's face in his post. But, now you have brought it in here. What is going on with this? Yes the boot fits today DC but you must think we're all stupid to not get the real message here. You didn't want to vent and hijack meme's post so you created another one right? Fair enough with all this 'can't hijack' posts unwritten rule that is thrown everywhere but Sammy, if meme's post kicks up a controversy then you should be responding in there with refernecec to things said in there. Sammy, I think you are adding to the affray by continually assuming this post was about Meme. Even if we all know it is, the fact that you have given name to him here, as a moderator, shows that you are on no more of a highground than the rest of us yet you have the authority to 'warn' members about their behaviour. If it's so clear to you who are the culprits then why aren't you warning them instead of beating round the bush in this thread which mentioned no names? I think a moderator should research a disagreement before adding to it. In this case, when I emailed you to ask if I was implicated in the affray, you said not in this instance but, as you hadn't been here for a week, you didn't know if I'd been hounding him previously this week. If you are going to make accusations of bullying then you should be a bit clearer in the picture. It's not fair to take a stance of defence for meme publicly like this as it's kind of looking like a way for you to avoid conflict which as a moderator if you felt that strongly about the bullying you should be taking action against. No? Sorry but I really had to get this off my chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaisyChain Posted August 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 My reason for starting this post was being triggered on the forums by controversial posts made by certain members, and their continuation of doing so, being the post makers and the poster responders. I had no intention of naming names or making this a personal attack. I have no desire to attack, I want to discuss. There have been numerous times over the last couple of months that this trigger has come up for me, in chat, on forums, in msn, in real life. It is something that I struggle to understand and wanted to talk openly and try and release some of the pressure I feel about it. I do not wish to have yet more arguments, we are all entitled to our differing opinions, and I believe talking openly will enable more understanding. I do not assume anyone to be stupid, and yes this post may be controversial too, but like roxy said before, controversy affects us in all areas of our life, not just by reading/responding to meme's posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I didn't bring it into the thread, Roxy mentioned it and I responded to it. I could be referring to the wrong person but I'm assuming it was the person that came on and said everyone was being racist towards her and not answering her posts because she was black when in fact not one person had done any such thing. Like I said though I was simply answering Roxy's post number 11 in this thread. I hadn't seen another thread with a post mentioning racism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I also didn't say that the topic was SOLELY about meme, although I do believe that it is in part about him, as does he and as does Roxy as they have both said in this thread and my response was addressing that particular issue because it had been raised. If neither meme nor Roxy had mentioned it I would not have responded the way I did. I respond to posts, I don't bring things in that haven't been already mentioned. I also didn't bring Meme's name into it, others already had, I responded to that. As for not pm'ing people it was not to avoid conflict, but to avoid singling someone out. If I wanted to avoid conflict I would not have posted at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Ok, Sammy, I saw a reference to another racism in the exact post that kicked this one off. But that's my point Sammy... you hadn't read the full picture yourself before adding to the melee. Sorry. DC, it's probably better to name those that irk you on the basis that this is a therapeutic community and even if people disagree, an open discussion about the things that really piss us off quite often results in significant improvements in conflict resolution both here and in real life. Sammy, how can we improve on all this conflict resolution business within the rules, I agree that outright attacks are wrong but how can we expect to resolve our differences with specific people on here if we can't mention names? I for one, need all the practice I can get for the real world and this forum at times feels as supportive as therapy and that has to be a good thing right? But in order to work through the issues we've got to be open about it no? DC, Sammy, anyone else - I am no saint. i made a post a few weeks back - it got heated yeah, and I got a warning, that too, but there must be some other way of dealing with it no? I am in need of advice just as much as anyone else in conflict here. the extremes on the one hand of being anonymous to the other extreme of blatantly outright are both going to end up in warnings. And the moderators are working within their own limits so really, what can we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piuma Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 feel a little bit scared to post now just incase i get attacked, but mayeb it would be better if you had named names then people cant go round in circles, or even pm the person to ask if its ok. but who knows im just me. just wanted to add, as you now have me paranoid that im the trouble maker, i have posted at times when im feeling desperate, this is an attention seeking thing i guess, cos i want help from someone, i thought thats what places like the crisis bit and stuff were for? if not can someone tell me and i wont post any more, if people think im an attention seeker, which i probably am, and it offends them, im very open, pm me, tell me to shut up and i wont do it anymore. but i do agree that if the posts where people are asking for help, or moaning, and being attention seekers isnt your cup of tea, you can just ignore us! sorry hope i dont offend anyone not my intention, just please be clear, are we allowed to speak our distress or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 I also didn't bring Meme's name into it, others already had, I responded to that. Oh god I'm sorry Sammy but you did bring it in first. Please accept that at least? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Piuma - attention seeking and manipulative behaviour is a perfectly healthy thing to do, it is survival at it's most basic. Don't feel bad or guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.