Why I Come Here

[Data]

This is a bit long so well done if you actually read it . I think I deserve an opportunity to explain myself. I am not asking people to feel sorry for me or participating in the "woah is me" or "who had the most shit childhood" contests that so often occur here. I just hope that by reading this, people will understand me.

As with others on here, I feel an outsider. In pre-school I used to play alone whilst others played together, so my social difficulties started at a very young age. As a kid I used to be the only person walking around in the playground, feeling self-conscious, that everyone was looking at me. Going home and spending evenings watching telly when my classmates were playing with each other and going to each others houses to listen to music.

My therapist says in his recent letter to my doctor "I agree with his opinion that he has borderline personality disorder although of the later, more stable type.. he may also be autistic". He wants the doctor to refer me to a psychiatrist for a diagnosis.

When I was younger I would "be myself", the trouble is, I didn't really know who I was! And, when you are full of anger and insecurity and jealousy and sensitivity, being yourself causes trouble and drives others away. So now I wear a mask in order to fit in. The trouble is, wearing a mask isn't very satisfying. If someone only tolerates being with you because of your mask, what is the point in that? I want people to want to be with me for what I am.

Strangely enough I can't remember a lot about my childhood. There was no sexual or physical abuse. However it was an 'invalidating environment' as per the literature on BPD. When I would get angry, my mum would dismiss it and make me feel guilty. I never learned how to deal with my extreme emotions. I escaped into a fantasy because the real world didn't want me. Now I am trapped in that fantasy world. My mind is full of angry, strange shit all day that makes it hard to concentrate and get on with life. And I can't talk to anyone about it because people just think its weird. So you can talk about it on internet forums with other BPD sufferers, right? Wrong!!!!

For 13 years I ignored my problems using a combination of drink, hard work, exercise, and academic study. Now I can't ignore them any more. So I come on the internet to try and find people who are like me and who accept me for what I am. In the way my mum never did!

The situation with my wife is really really getting me down and my therapist thinks its the primary reason why I drink heavily. When I woke up on holiday in hour hotel recently I was able to walk across the room without plotting a route through the debris. You might find it hard to understand, but that makes a massive difference to my stress levels.

I posted pictures of our house (which I have now made private) because I am socially isolated and I wanted feedback as to whether it was "normal" or "healthy" or not. And a lot of the feedback I got agreed with my therapist: that it is neglectful of us as a couple to bring children up in this unhealthy environment. So thats why I am looking for outside help.

Also, I think I just wanted support. I am finding life shit and wanted a few hugs, I admit it, whats wrong with that? If someone else was going through the same issues, supporting a wife who has mental health issues and won't admit to them, I would feel a common bond with them and some empathy. So I naively assume that I will get that support here.

I find it hard to empathise with other people, because I have been trained from an early age by my mum to believe that only my needs matter and I am the centre of the universe. I can sometimes empathise with people a little when they have similar experiences to me. You might call me selfish, but thats the way I am... theres no point me pretending to be any other, I can't help the way I am.

I think the main difficulty is that I am such an outsider here. Because of my empathy issues, I find it hard to put myself in the position of your "typical" Mental Health Forums member: a woman in her 20s who was sexually abused as a child and has had abusive relationships with a man who drinks a lot and who cuts. So, I guess I don't know how someone like that would feel in response to reading my posts.

I have triggers as well. I hate it when people say that all men are the same, for example, that is a MAJOR trigger for me. But, if I read topics like that I try to state my opinions without being nasty and I try to be objective. So, I naively assume that others will be objective when they read my topics. Not everyone can control (or chooses to control) themself in the way I do.

Also, I naively assume that if I try and post balanced stuff, where I see both sides of the argument, that people will respect that. People have a tendency to latch on to one thing, which is negative and directed at me, and focus on that. Perhaps that is because it is the one thing that triggers them the most. Its an example of 'splitting', which I do not do, so again I find that hard to relate to.

Its not always easy for me to tell what will trigger. If I am honest about my anger issues and am working on them, does that not make me more likeable as a person? Would you prefer I hid my problems for everyone, was not honest about them, and did not try to improve myself? I find it endearing when people admit to their faults and try and improve, and I struggle to understand why others don't feel the same way.

And, why does my wife's behaviour not trigger? This morning I have found a metal coil, flammable liquids and a pair of scissors on the lounge floor, amongst all the debris that the kids have to wade through. Do you really think she is blameless, a victim, or someone whom I need to apologise to? She puts her own needs ahead of the childrens safety, why does that not make people here angry? I really really really don't understand. Is it because she is a woman and I am a man who drinks and has anger issues? I am sure there is a lot of projection going on here, despite the denials. One person has been brave enough to admit to doing that, and I salute them.

I have improved recently. My wife says I am spending more time with the kids. I am really trying not to be angry with her since I know that inside she is a nice person.

I am a member of some other forums. But none of them are any where near as good as this. And I actually have some friends here.

I could put people on ignore but the problem is I don't actually think the people who have been bullying me are bad people, they just have issues. And, although their responses to my topics are often nasty (several have been removed by the moderators), ignoring them would mean I see none of their posts and some of their topics are actually quite interesting, I want to read what they have to say on them.

So whats the way forward then? Do I stop posting here and just use the chat? Do I only post about "nice" things? But how the hell am I supposed to know what people on her will consider "nice" anyway?

[DaisyChain]

Its a lottery meme, you have to be in it to win it!

[bibiddi]

I have read many of your posts meme, and have seen the arguments that happen.

I have often wondered why they happen.

Having just read this post, I wonder if some of it is because of how your mother treated you.

Imagine, that your Mother is no longer an external person, with a voice, but an internal image inside of you with a voice, that is so instinctive and automatic, that it sounds like your own voice.

If someone says something that is difficult to hear or accept, this 'voice' kicks in and invalidates what people have said.Like what happened to you in your childhood. Ultimately, under certain circumstances, you either ignore (probably like your mother)or you speak,or write your mothers words, and 'we' become the young meme.

Some of us react the way you did, and feel guilty, and angry. Some don't react that way.

I can see you are wanting to change, but at the moment it feels there is a step towards change that can't be seen as yet.But it will happen.I think (and this is a bit of a guess - that it has something to do with being taught you are the centre of the universe).

I think it will be interesting to hear whether you are on the autistic spectrum - I know people have mentioned it to you before.

One of the things I was taught in therapy is that change is a series of little steps, most of them involve leaps of faith. I wish you well in your journey.

[Jaimie_CS]

This is a bit long so well done if you actually read it . I think I deserve an opportunity to explain myself. I am not asking people to feel sorry for me or participating in the "woah is me" or "who had the most shit childhood" contests that so often occur here. I just hope that by reading this, people will understand me.

As with others on here, I feel an outsider. In pre-school I used to play alone whilst others played together, so my social difficulties started at a very young age. As a kid I used to be the only person walking around in the playground, feeling self-conscious, that everyone was looking at me. Going home and spending evenings watching telly when my classmates were playing with each other and going to each others houses to listen to music.

My therapist says in his recent letter to my doctor "I agree with his opinion that he has borderline personality disorder although of the later, more stable type.. he may also be autistic". He wants the doctor to refer me to a psychiatrist for a diagnosis.

I really encourage you to do this.

When I was younger I would "be myself", the trouble is, I didn't really know who I was! And, when you are full of anger and insecurity and jealousy and sensitivity, being yourself causes trouble and drives others away. So now I wear a mask in order to fit in. The trouble is, wearing a mask isn't very satisfying. If someone only tolerates being with you because of your mask, what is the point in that? I want people to want to be with me for what I am.

Strangely enough I can't remember a lot about my childhood. There was no sexual or physical abuse. However it was an 'invalidating environment' as per the literature on BPD. When I would get angry, my mum would dismiss it and make me feel guilty. I never learned how to deal with my extreme emotions. I escaped into a fantasy because the real world didn't want me. Now I am trapped in that fantasy world. My mind is full of angry, strange shit all day that makes it hard to concentrate and get on with life. And I can't talk to anyone about it because people just think its weird. So you can talk about it on internet forums with other BPD sufferers, right? Wrong!!!!

I think sometimes you forget where you are meme.....in a forum of people who, like yourself, are very sensitive to a range of things and also often paranoid. This is not the same as other forums, there is a high percentage of bdp, schizophrenic, bipolar people here, exactly the kind of people who will react badly and or/extremely to almost any situation or conflict. this is not a criticism, just a reminder.

For 13 years I ignored my problems using a combination of drink, hard work, exercise, and academic study. Now I can't ignore them any more. So I come on the internet to try and find people who are like me and who accept me for what I am. In the way my mum never did!

The situation with my wife is really really getting me down and my therapist thinks its the primary reason why I drink heavily. When I woke up on holiday in hour hotel recently I was able to walk across the room without plotting a route through the debris. You might find it hard to understand, but that makes a massive difference to my stress levels.

I posted pictures of our house (which I have now made private) because I am socially isolated and I wanted feedback as to whether it was "normal" or "healthy" or not. And a lot of the feedback I got agreed with my therapist: that it is neglectful of us as a couple to bring children up in this unhealthy environment. So thats why I am looking for outside help.

Also, I think I just wanted support. I am finding life shit and wanted a few hugs, I admit it, whats wrong with that? If someone else was going through the same issues, supporting a wife who has mental health issues and won't admit to them, I would feel a common bond with them and some empathy. So I naively assume that I will get that support here.

I find it hard to empathise with other people, because I have been trained from an early age by my mum to believe that only my needs matter and I am the centre of the universe. I can sometimes empathise with people a little when they have similar experiences to me. You might call me selfish, but thats the way I am... theres no point me pretending to be any other, I can't help the way I am.

I think the main difficulty is that I am such an outsider here. Because of my empathy issues, I find it hard to put myself in the position of your "typical" Mental Health Forums member: a woman in her 20s who was sexually abused as a child and has had abusive relationships with a man who drinks a lot and who cuts. So, I guess I don't know how someone like that would feel in response to reading my posts.

I think you will find you are mistaken in this, there are roughly 10-15 of us here in our 20's, I've rarely heard mention of sexual abuse as a child (but i havent been here very long) and rarely have I heard angry words towards male partners (even, and especially where they are deserved.) In my opinion, the most common type of member here is 30-40 with children, female, in a relationship (some stable, some not) and BPD and/or depressed.

I have triggers as well. I hate it when people say that all men are the same, for example, that is a MAJOR trigger for me. But, if I read topics like that I try to state my opinions without being nasty and I try to be objective. So, I naively assume that others will be objective when they read my topics. Not everyone can control (or chooses to control) themself in the way I do.

Intentionally or otherwise, you do have a very direct, and often very provocative manner meme, I think it stems in part from you feeling ostracized from the other users and immediately going on the defensive, which comes across a little aggressively. Your responses to other people's threads are often objective, but your own threads are nearly always written in a very provocative way. There isnt anything wrong with this as long as you expect challenging responses.

Also, I naively assume that if I try and post balanced stuff, where I see both sides of the argument, that people will respect that. People have a tendency to latch on to one thing, which is negative and directed at me, and focus on that. Perhaps that is because it is the one thing that triggers them the most. Its an example of 'splitting', which I do not do, so again I find that hard to relate to.

Its not always easy for me to tell what will trigger. If I am honest about my anger issues and am working on them, does that not make me more likeable as a person? Would you prefer I hid my problems for everyone, was not honest about them, and did not try to improve myself? I find it endearing when people admit to their faults and try and improve, and I struggle to understand why others don't feel the same way.

And, why does my wife's behaviour not trigger? This morning I have found a metal coil, flammable liquids and a pair of scissors on the lounge floor, amongst all the debris that the kids have to wade through. Do you really think she is blameless, a victim, or someone whom I need to apologise to? She puts her own needs ahead of the childrens safety, why does that not make people here angry? I really really really don't understand. Is it because she is a woman and I am a man who drinks and has anger issues? I am sure there is a lot of projection going on here, despite the denials. One person has been brave enough to admit to doing that, and I salute them.

It is because nearly everyone here immediately empathize with her. Even I do, and I am young and childless, she shows the same lack of motivation with everyday tasks that i feel, and constantly irritates her family with it, as do I. I empathize with her depression, not with her (potentially) abusive relationship.

Many of the women here are in a similar position to her, and share many of the symptoms you describe, you cannot blame them for identifying with her, people can only draw on their own experiences, as you yourself have pointed out.

Of course your children's safety is important, and I see that you are taking steps to protect them, involving the authorities etc. but surely you understand that this will do nothing to help her depression or feelings of failure. I am not recommending that you act differently, merely that you try and understand how these actions will affect her. Most women see their main role in life as a mother and caregiver and it is the most difficult thing imaginable to fail in the area that is supposed to come naturally to you.

You have spoken of your inability to empathize and i respect that, but if you are intelligent enough to realize that you struggle in this area, then I wonder why you seem so reluctant to use the opinions of the women on this forum as an oppurtunity to remedy this. If it is impossible for you to imagine what your wife is going through, then surely a bevy of mentally ill women with similar experiences is the perfect tool in improving your understanding of her thoughts and feelings.

I have improved recently. My wife says I am spending more time with the kids. I am really trying not to be angry with her since I know that inside she is a nice person.

I ask that you attempt to take the following as a polite offer of observation and not a criticism:

Every time you say something like this i have the same reaction to it. You are obviously taking steps towards behaving in a better way towards your wife. This is a good thing, however the way you phrase it comes across as - your wife is the one in the wrong, and you are the better person for making the effort. I'm sure that is not how it is intended, but that is how i interpret it.

In every relationship the two sides are equal, you seem very involved in your side and all the ways in which your wife makes your life, and that of your children worse. Please stop to consider that for every bad thought you have, she has just as many. For every bad behaviour she exhibits, you have the same. You know how hard it is for you to cope with her behaviours, like leaving things on the floor, so consider how difficult that is for you, and know that you do things that are just as hard for her to cope with.

I am a member of some other forums. But none of them are any where near as good as this. And I actually have some friends here.

I could put people on ignore but the problem is I don't actually think the people who have been bullying me are bad people, they just have issues. And, although their responses to my topics are often nasty (several have been removed by the moderators), ignoring them would mean I see none of their posts and some of their topics are actually quite interesting, I want to read what they have to say on them.

So whats the way forward then? Do I stop posting here and just use the chat? Do I only post about "nice" things? But how the hell am I supposed to know what people on her will consider "nice" anyway?

Try to be more mindful of the style in which you write.

Everyone wants you to feel welcome here, but they cannot change the nature of the forum, which as we have both mentioned is women dominated - many for whom you and your experiences are a trigger. you must try not to offend them, and they in turn must try to be more mindful as lumping you in with their negative experiences.

[Ruth24]

Hiya meme,

Thanks for explaining that. Your negative replies make more sense now.

All i can say is, keep on posting. A lot of replies you get are constructive critism and you get very defensive, for obvious reasons. I hope you can differienciate between the constructive cririsism and the replies that are totally out of order. As an outsider the differences are obvious to me, the ones who are trying to help and the ones who want to vent their anger aimed at other onto you (sorry can't remember the word). and i have been guilty of that in the past, for which i am very sorry. We all get negative replies sometimes and you can try and view it as another perspective or dismiss it. the choice is yours. If you feel somebody is blatantly bullying or being unfair then make a complaint about it. I hope you realise that the majority of us are simply trying to help and want you to see things from another perspective.

I hope this makes some sense

[roxy222]

i do not empathise with your wife

i am angry at her behaviour to your children, especially trying to stop others helping your son, very angry. but i do not know your wifes side of things, so i dont feel it makes much sence to write anything other than i have in the past about it (like that her guilt is no excuse not to get help for him)

people are all going to have their own sensetivities and react depending on who they are. there is no way to except support or understanding or anything like that, people can only give what they can. the uncoditional support is what ts are for, although unfortanutly not all of them are so good at that part either. that doesnt mean you can get support here, or that you cant discover alot of learning within open disscussions, or that you can expect people to behave more appropriately if they do object and feel anger. possibley more importantly you can give your support to others. you say you have little/no empathy, but there are times you reply to others, take part in their disscussions, ofer advice or your own experience where comparible, and that is valuable in and of itself.

it is valuable to have male imput into this type of forum where it is likely to be mostly female. it is proably encouraging to other men also.

[Data]

What you say makes perfect sense, bibbidi, and I never thought of that before. Your ideas are very much like the "alien self" concept in attachment theory. My understanding of this is that, because our parents don't identify properly with our feelings as a child, but instead thrust their own feelings upon us, we end up with their issues being part of our identity. Perhaps this is what is going on here. I will have a think but I believe you may have something interesting here for me to talk about in therapy.

Ruth, thanks for your reply, you are right, I need to respond to the helpful posts and learn to ignore and not be drawn into the nasty ones.

Gem, your reply was nice and you have made an effort to be constructive. The issue is that its difficult for me to change the style in which I write. Its like asking me to be another person. And that again, is a trigger for me. Sorry!

[roxy222]

Hiya meme,

Thanks for explaining that. Your negative replies make more sense now.

All i can say is, keep on posting. A lot of replies you get are constructive critism and you get very defensive, for obvious reasons. I hope you can differienciate between the constructive cririsism and the replies that are totally out of order. As an outsider the differences are obvious to me, the ones who are trying to help and the ones who want to vent their anger aimed at other onto you (sorry can't remember the word). and i have been guilty of that in the past, for which i am very sorry. We all get negative replies sometimes and you can try and view it as another perspective or dismiss it. the choice is yours. If you feel somebody is blatantly bullying or being unfair then make a complaint about it. I hope you realise that the majority of us are simply trying to help and want you to see things from another perspective.

I hope this makes some sense

i think you're meaning transference? that ok?

bibiddi (god i really cant spell unless its right in bloody front of me, fk head! sozX)

i really enjoyed reading your post here. i think its real important to examine the internal message at work within us (internal lies v often i find) and how these effect out interactions with others

[Jaimie_CS]

I also wanted to add, that I really admire you for recognizing your negative behaviors and for even talking about your issues and for ever admitting you're wrong.

Perhaps it shouldnt be more difficult for men, but it is, and you make yourself a better person by doing these things.

[roxy222]

What you say makes perfect sense, bibbidi, and I never thought of that before. Your ideas are very much like the "alien self" concept in attachment theory. My understanding of this is that, because our parents don't identify properly with our feelings as a child, but instead thrust their own feelings upon us, we end up with their issues being part of our identity. Perhaps this is what is going on here. I will have a think but I believe you may have something interesting here for me to talk about in therapy.

Ruth, thanks for your reply, you are right, I need to respond to the helpful posts and learn to ignore and not be drawn into the nasty ones.

Gem, your reply was nice and you have made an effort to be constructive. The issue is that its difficult for me to change the style in which I write. Its like asking me to be another person. And that again, is a trigger for me. Sorry!

i also would not beable to change the way i write, i understand that, i write in a very dissociative fashion because thats how i feel alot and i have minimal management over that at present (as it is i know alot of them seem to make a great deal of sence, that is the emotional or feeling connection that comes through, however that awarenss is still well out of synch with alot of others stuff, like intellect, and thats why i end up all over the place, hysterical spelling etcetc). but it is an idea to examine why you/me/anyone write the way they do. interesting point

[Data]

i do not empathise with your wife

i am angry at her behaviour to your children, especially trying to stop others helping your son, very angry. but i do not know your wifes side of things, so i dont feel it makes much sence to write anything other than i have in the past about it (like that her guilt is no excuse not to get help for him)

When I read a response like that, I find it validating. It also makes me feel less guilty, since i DO feel guilty about being angry towards my wife. Again, feeling guilty about feelings is probably a childhood thing. Thanks mum!!!!

I am not saying that supportive responses provide an excuse for my bad behaviour. I know that if I am angry towards my wife it just compounds her feelings of guilt and stress and depression and makes things worse.

However, it is SO nice to hear someone honestly say that they realise it is not all one sided and a simple black and white situation where I am the villain and she is the victim. We both need to improve our behaviour. If I try and take the moral high ground I need to be reminded of that (as Gem says I should NOT keep thinking she is the one in the wrong all the time).

people are all going to have their own sensetivities and react depending on who they are. there is no way to except support or understanding or anything like that, people can only give what they can. the uncoditional support is what ts are for, although unfortanutly not all of them are so good at that part either. that doesnt mean you can get support here, or that you cant discover alot of learning within open disscussions, or that you can expect people to behave more appropriately if they do object and feel anger. possibley more importantly you can give your support to others. you say you have little/no empathy, but there are times you reply to others, take part in their disscussions, ofer advice or your own experience where comparible, and that is valuable in and of itself.

it is valuable to have male imput into this type of forum where it is likely to be mostly female. it is proably encouraging to other men also.

Hmmm. Perhaps some things are better left for the therapy room.

Or maybe I will carry on sticking my neck out and being 'me'. But if I do, I need to avoid getting drawn into conflict, it escalates things and ain't fair on other people who come here for support.

[DaisyChain]

forget it

[Ruth24]

Hiya meme,

Thanks for explaining that. Your negative replies make more sense now.

All i can say is, keep on posting. A lot of replies you get are constructive critism and you get very defensive, for obvious reasons. I hope you can differienciate between the constructive cririsism and the replies that are totally out of order. As an outsider the differences are obvious to me, the ones who are trying to help and the ones who want to vent their anger aimed at other onto you (sorry can't remember the word). and i have been guilty of that in the past, for which i am very sorry. We all get negative replies sometimes and you can try and view it as another perspective or dismiss it. the choice is yours. If you feel somebody is blatantly bullying or being unfair then make a complaint about it. I hope you realise that the majority of us are simply trying to help and want you to see things from another perspective.

I hope this makes some sense

i think you're meaning transference? that ok?

bibiddi (god i really cant spell unless its right in bloody front of me, fk head! sozX)

i really enjoyed reading your post here. i think its real important to examine the internal message at work within us (internal lies v often i find) and how these effect out interactions with others

Transference. thats the word. thanks :)

[Jaimie_CS]

I feel the need to defend meme on a few of these points.

It is unfair that we constantly reprimand meme for his comments about his wife. Many of the women on here post openly critical things about their male partners and receive no criticism for it. Meme is entitled to talk about the things that upset/trigger/depress him and that included his wife. Obviously we should not encourage negative behavior towards her, but I think people could be a bit more understanding of his frustration towards her and that he chooses to vent it here instead of taking more of it out on her in the physical world.

yes, meme's threats of leaving the forum may be attention seeking, but we all participate in that behavior and I dont think it is unusual for him to post things hoping to illicit a validating reaction.

Yes, he also self-diagnoses a condition that makes many of our lives difficult, but it can be incredibly frustrating when you feel all messed up and noone will give you a label for it or a way to stop it. self-diagnosing may be a negative thing to do, but it is perfectly understandable.

Sometimes I get annoyed when people use their childhood events as a reason for their current behaviors, because i personally had a pretty rough childhood, but have never considered it to be the cause of any of my problems. I feel its a bit of a cop out. BUT, i do (when i allow myself) occasionally lean on my diagnoses as an excuse for my behavior, and i realize that is basically the same thing, considering most people's conditions are contributed by childhood experiences.

[Data]

Thanks for your reply, Gem. It is a tad unfair to say I self-diagnose, because my therapist is very well qualified and he agrees with me. Is it that I seem happy about having BPD? In a way I am. For years I considered myself to have a special/unique disorder that nobody has, which is very isolating. Doctors have given me all sorts of different diagnoses in the past and not been very helpful. Its nice to have a label for my unhappiness. If I appear to use it as an excuse then I am sorry, I need to be careful of that. But I am not alone in finding excuses on this forum .

[Data]

Gem's post unfortunately quotes from a post of DaisyChain's, which she has edited out. I thank you for editing out that post, DaisyChain.

I did not consider DaisyChain's post to be constructive or supportive so - in line with the new "me", I am inclined to ignore it.

The problem is, it has been shown here, and it contains lies about me. DaisyChain is repeating a load of rumours which she has heard about me from other people. She probably believes these rumours to be true, since she has heard them from her friends.

However, some of these friends have a grudge against me and are spreading rumours in a big game of chinese whispers. They have also revealed things that I have told them in confidence, taken them out of context, and exaggerated them. And these people used to be my friends! At the time they were all sweetness and light and empathy and then they suddently turn, blank me, and post all my private stuff on the internet, mixed in with a load of lies. I warn you.. some people on this site may seem friendly, but they are dangerous "friends" and cannot be trusted.

I would not like to rape my wife, and I never said any such thing.

Just because someone (like me) has interests in bondage, does not make me a sex abuser.

If you want to know whether something about me is true, PM me and I might just answer your question. But be careful of believing everything you hear.

[Sammy]

I personally think Daisy did the right thing posting here those things that she finds upsetting or triggering as well as what she believes others find upsetting or triggering.

Although I don't believe any of those things are an excuse to attack someone or be vindictive towards them, I do feel it is good that rather than harbour all those thoughts and feelings and allow them to build up, that they are out in the open and can be addressed. Those that are untrue rumours can be corrected and those that are true but seen in a different light can also be corrected.

I also don't agree with much of the list as I know meme has been working hard at improving himself and his situation (neglect of children, relationship with wife) including seeking professional help and trying to be more patient with his wife.

But I think it is a positive thing that Daisy put it out there so that at least meme has the opportunity to defend himself on some points and recognise other points.

[Shelley]

*Eats a good slice of humble pie*

I read through your post meme, and I now understand where your coming from, you make a lot of sense and I realise now that I was wrong, the judgements I made about you were wrong, I feel very ashamed of myself actually.

You deserve the same respect as anyone else on this forum.

I sincerely apologise.

Anna xxx

[Benway]

'participating in the "woah is me" or "who had the most shit childhood" contests that so often occur here. '

meme- i opened your post to try to be more empathetic with you- but immediately i saw this, i just clammed up. I don't believe this goes on. 'Contests'? that is absurd and very upsetting to me, i meant to read and reply with a good heart, but felt physically sick at that line.

I'm sorry, i could not read anymore. But i tried.

Take care

Anne Marie

[Jaimie_CS]

I dont believe daisy's post needed to be edited out, at least half of the things on the list were legitmate, although perhaps others were not, i couldnt say.

If you read your post in response meme, you do sound a bit paranoid. I know all too well how things can seem much larger and more involved that they actually are when you get caught up in an online community - this must be exacerbated by the fact that you dont have many people to talk about with it the physical world (i know this is a cumbersome term but i hate the term 'irl' because i dont think its accurate.)

I think you need to take a step back sometimes and consider that everyone's actions do not relate to you, everyone here has a tendency to be self-centered and there's nothing wrong with that if it helps us to talk about ourselves - but it does result in people taking things to personally.

[placebo69a]

Hello,

This thread is becoming counter productive in my opinion. Please lock it before it blows out of proportion.

I thought we've discussed threads about arguments in threads already? Isn't this just making whatever problems are there worse? Shouldn't problems between members be resolved with the help of staff between themselves rather than aired out so more people can join in on the fun?

I don't see any point in arguing about what's making people argue. I think if anyone has a problem with how you write they should take it to you and not the whole forum, Meme. I, likewise, think that anyone who you have a problem with how they reply to how you write, you should take that problem to them.

I don't like seeing this forum used as a stage for personal disagreements. Let's all just agree to disagree and try and help each other as much as we can, shall we? Attacking any member of the forums (even if they diss their wife ladies, you diss your hubbies all the time on here) seems out of line to me. We do have rules so please respect them and don't make staff enforce them on you.

I'm sorry I'm not replying to the substance in your original thread Meme. I started writing this reply by doing that and ended with a HUGE reply so I'm saving it for a PM.

Please, please, please lock this thread and ghost it or something. This is not peer support ,in my honest opinion, it's peer abuse! :(

[placebo69a]

I will add this:

Despite what others may think or feel about you, I really like you, Meme.

Every time I've had the opportunity to read something you wrote or chat with you I feel like, while I may have been triggered once or twice, I'd learnt something new. You are a valuable member of this forum in my opinion and the place wouldn't be the same without you.

I think it's great that you feel like you're making progress at home. If stuff the wife does makes you think otherwise just remember that she has her own mindfuck to sort through just like you have yours. You deal with yours and she'll deal with hers. (flammable liquids and scissors on the floor where young kids can reach them - shocking! any parent should know better!) You're responsible for improving your own behaviour and not hers, remember that.

I think you come here for the right reasons. You have thought structures, or schemes, that cause you a great deal of suffering and pain when you get triggered. We all of us have those here, and we all of us need to learn how to change them if we want to avoid all that suffering and pain. The correct response to your threads considering the goals of this community is to reach out to you and to try and give you support, not to criticize you or invalidate your thoughts and feelings as some people do.

Anyway, I'm here for you, if you want to talk one on one about some of the things you've raised in this thread, but like my previous reply says: I don't see anything positive coming out of discussing in public why some people here argue with you constantly. I think you should try and resolve your issues with these people on a person-by-person basis and use the staff's or a peer's help if need be. Setting a public stage merely encourages people who don't have a stake in the argument to take sides and keep it going, in my view.

[Roses]

To change the path then.

Meme I think the original post on this thread took guts and I think it is a positive thing for you to have done.

I am not going to discuss any particulars as I know you think I hate you but the one thing I wanted to say was that I hoped one day you would feel that, within a marriage, taking sides isn't what it's about. It's about finding the middle ground and working together in a marriage. Perhaps the time for "she did this", "he did that" has finished and it is time to start making actual roadway into your relationship with your wife. I can see the small changes already and I bet it'll snowball and within a few months it'll be much better for you all. Best of luck you are doing so well.

[Data]

*Eats a good slice of humble pie*

I read through your post meme, and I now understand where your coming from, you make a lot of sense and I realise now that I was wrong, the judgements I made about you were wrong, I feel very ashamed of myself actually.

You deserve the same respect as anyone else on this forum.

I sincerely apologise.

Aww Anna, it took guts to apologise. You apology is accepted.

Don't feel ashamed, its partly my fault. People are triggered but I make it worse by arguing with them.

I bet you and I have more in common than you think, Anna!

Hello,

This thread is becoming counter productive in my opinion. Please lock it before it blows out of proportion.

I'm sorry I'm not replying to the substance in your original thread Meme. I started writing this reply by doing that and ended with a HUGE reply so I'm saving it for a PM.

Please, please, please lock this thread and ghost it or something. This is not peer support ,in my honest opinion, it's peer abuse!

If anyone blows this thread out of proportion, it won't be me .

If you send me a PM, I will read it. You are a good person, placebo, and I am interested to hear what you have to say.

I have found this thread to be constructive, it has helped me. And part of "recovery" is learning how to cope with conflict constructively.

I can't and won't become a different person, and I am not going anywhere. So, I expect my posts will trigger people in the future. I think I need to learn to take a step back and think before reacting, and try and see it more from others point of view.

To change the path then.

Meme I think the original post on this thread took guts and I think it is a positive thing for you to have done.

I am not going to discuss any particulars as I know you think I hate you but the one thing I wanted to say was that I hoped one day you would feel that, within a marriage, taking sides isn't what it's about. It's about finding the middle ground and working together in a marriage. Perhaps the time for "she did this", "he did that" has finished and it is time to start making actual roadway into your relationship with your wife. I can see the small changes already and I bet it'll snowball and within a few months it'll be much better for you all. Best of luck you are doing so well.

I know you are right, Roses.

The difficulty is that my wife... isn't the easiest of people to work with. If you think I am paranoid, sensitive or defensive, you should talk to her . Thats not a negative or moral judgement on her, its just she has issues that even she herself does not understand. She is a lovely person really, inside. Unfortunately some people will never face up to their issues. It may be that our marriage is not going to work. In that case, I need to think about how to protect my children.

[placebo69a]

That's a sensible line of thought. I don't have any children but it seems only natural to me that one would do whatever is in one's power to protect them, even if that means protecting them from the other parent...

My mom stood by when I was young and let my dad beat me. I think the more "parental" response would have been to throw herself on me and bodily protect me from harm and I wish that she would have. Do what you can to protect your kids, it's the right feeling to act on!