Data Posted August 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Do what you can to protect your kids, it's the right feeling to act on! Yes but I need to act WITH my wife and not against her. I know you were only trying to relate by using your own experiences, mate, but my wife loves our kids and she tries her best, despite her difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piuma Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 hi meme, just wanted to say, i read your post i have not read any of the comments cos i dont wanna be influenced, i'll read em after. i just wanted to say i feel like this isnt just a place for people who have eebn abuse or what eva, i would encouarge you to post, what ever you feel you need help with. i think people dont have to read your posts. i do and i will try to support best i can. as for not empathising, i have read comnets you have left for other people and you do empathise. infact you did in chat with me, and i appreciate that. maybe you'r a little tough on yourself!! anyway, i hope you do keep posting and coming into chat, and thanks for being so honest in your post xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Aww Anna, it took guts to apologise. You apology is accepted. Don't feel ashamed, its partly my fault. People are triggered but I make it worse by arguing with them. I bet you and I have more in common than you think, Anna! Thankyou! and yep, I think your right there! (about having stuff in common) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placebo69a Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Do what you can to protect your kids, it's the right feeling to act on! Yes but I need to act WITH my wife and not against her. I know you were only trying to relate by using your own experiences, mate, but my wife loves our kids and she tries her best, despite her difficulties. I didn't say work against your wife. I said protecting your kids is definitely a goal to pursue. It's really up to you how to achieve it in the most effective manner. Obviously you and your wife share this goal and should come up with solutions together. But... If something your wife does ends up hurting your kids and you would have been able to prevent it, wouldn't you be held partly responsible? If your wife does things that can potentially hurt your children it's not a question of how long till she stops in my mind, it's a question of how to prevent her from doing them from this point forward. Your kids' safety shouldn't be the joker in any argument you have with your wife either. To paraphrase something you said in your original post: It's not a contest which of you is the "worse" parent or who endangers/neglects the kids more or less. Don't keep score, just do your best, personally and as a couple, to keep your kids safe. If you feel that despite your doing your best in that manner your kids are still in danger then seek appropriate help. Does that make sense at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Yes, the safety of the children is a joint responsibility between both partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystalfairy Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 May I say that took guts to post meme, and I would hope you would continue here, it would be a shame to deny yourself a source of support, despite the conflicts that arise. What I would like to add is that we are all different. We are all individuals, some may have similar experiences, however we are all individuals of equal value. Cryst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiddi Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Meme, I dont know if you will find this helpful. But further to my last post where I mentioned that I thought that at times you may use similar behaviour to your mother. In the first post you mention how when you were angry she dismissed it and made you feel guilty. I just noticed in one of your venting posts, you talk about peoples anger at you and you dismiss it as a BPD symptom. They may feel their anger is being dismissed, and feel guilty for being angry. I think its almost impossible for someone who is the target of the anger to 'diagnose'it or diminish it as such and write about it without it getting peoples backs up. People may have something to be angry with you about, but they may just not be able to deal with the conflict properly.Its just a thought. Oh, just also wanted to mention that sometimes it feels as if you try and 'gather' people into groups - for ease of reference I'll call them 'friend' or 'foe'. I had noticed that feeling myself when I responded to a previous thread. I don't want to be part of any group, and I felt like I wanted to say something negative towards you to take me out of your group! - thankfully I didnt do it. I just thought I would mention these things I had noticed, just in case they are part of why you don't get the responses you look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Meme, I dont know if you will find this helpful. But further to my last post where I mentioned that I thought that at times you may use similar behaviour to your mother. In the first post you mention how when you were angry she dismissed it and made you feel guilty. I just noticed in one of your venting posts, you talk about peoples anger at you and you dismiss it as a BPD symptom. They may feel their anger is being dismissed, and feel guilty for being angry. I think its almost impossible for someone who is the target of the anger to 'diagnose'it or diminish it as such and write about it without it getting peoples backs up. People may have something to be angry with you about, but they may just not be able to deal with the conflict properly.Its just a thought. On this occasion, I do not feel that I am dismissing their anger. What I was trying to understand is how someone can be your friend, be nice to you, and say for weeks that they are ok with something you are discussing, then suddenly change their mind and dismiss you and be angry about the things they previously accepted. I feel that if people are not happy with me or what we are discussing they should say so then, or as soon as possible afterwards. If they find that impossible then I would rather not have them as a friend. You make a good general point though. I never thought that I might behave like my mum, it makes sense since I can be controlling at times (as she is). I need to be careful I am not dismissive of other people; its better to try to understand them instead, isn't it? Oh, just also wanted to mention that sometimes it feels as if you try and 'gather' people into groups - for ease of reference I'll call them 'friend' or 'foe'. I had noticed that feeling myself when I responded to a previous thread. I don't want to be part of any group, and I felt like I wanted to say something negative towards you to take me out of your group! - thankfully I didnt do it. I just thought I would mention these things I had noticed, just in case they are part of why you don't get the responses you look for. Good point, I really do do this. Perhaps its a type of 'splitting' ? At times I felt I was being attacked by everyone and to group them together appears convenient but its not fair on people to do this. Thanks for your reply you have really given me things to think about . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hey meme, You know who your friends are, who your supporters are and those out to shit stir and cause arguments. Just try and ignore the shit stirrers, difficult as that may be. it must be very hurtful. But please don't think that those that are trying to support you are shit stirrers if they oppose your opinion. take care x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Just try and ignore the shit stirrers, difficult as that may be. it must be very hurtful. But please don't think that those that are trying to support you are shit stirrers if they oppose your opinion. Thanks for the advice, you are right. Its kinda the similar to what bibbidi is saying, i.e. lumping people together into groups. I have also been told that I am hyper-sensitive to criticism, which is something I need to work on perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placebo69a Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Must... resist... gay-bashing... shit-stirrer... remark... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Must... resist... gay-bashing... shit-stirrer... remark... I don't understand. Who is gay-bashing? How is this relevant to the topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catspiracy Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think "shit stirring" refers to a joke about hell being neck-deep in shit, and if someone "shit stirs" they make waves in the shit pond that choke everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 i think to some extent all people act like parents or seek out others who act like then to replay these patterns until the issues they have are faced and dealt with, resloved. i think thats a v normal thing even for those with good parents its hard not to lump people into a group when it feels like they are all attacking you, i even find it hard not to do that when seeing them attack you, but ofcourse people have different points, not all attacking, however when there clearly is some element of attack within the group it would be tactful of others to be sensitive in replying oppositional ideas so that their ideas can be taken as just that, and not look like part of a generalised issue. but ofcourse this i something that can only be learned in time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 If you read your posts you may realise how condascending you sound, and i don't think that is helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placebo69a Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think that's entirely a matter of interpertation. I don't find your tone condascending at all. I think you make valid points about what others might learn from all the fighting. I want to know more about what you personally learned from it though. I'd hate to think everyone can learn so much from it and you can't. What kind of impact do you think all the bickering had on you and what would you do better next time (or else how would you avoid it, assuming that's what you want)? I'd rather hear more about what you felt and feel, thought and think, what you've learned, than what others may glean. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 good point. ok emmm i think iv learned to voice what i think but avoid others attempts to manipulate and control, which reduces triggers for me iv learned (or am still in the process of learning) that i am not responsible for making people understand something they have no wish too. people who are willing and able to have open honest converstations are the ones who i will learn from/learn with/help them learn I have learned that i see similar repetition comulsions in others that i have in myself, or have had iv learned i can explain myself without having to justify myself iv learned that i can stand up for others being treated unfairly without getting personally angry /annoyed iv learned i can ask for help (mods) and they will respond fairly iv learned not to take things personally, if i dont value a person enough to value their opinion of me then why value their criticisms? a person is not their words, i can be horrified, disgusted, terrified, any difficult emotion, by a persons words/ arguement/ point of view, but that doesnt mean they are a bad person and there is nobody i would wish ill too here when i do not fear the ignorance/blindness/denial of others i express my point of view much better, or in other words when i do not expect the world to respond to me or treat me the way i experienced growing up i do not have to be allways on the defensive there are other people out there who are working on their own understanding and find the same or similar conclusions as me, or being able to understand mine and i theres, so i am not alone with my feelings. now i am an adult i can and infact do find people who can validate my feelings rather than just those who trample them this is a really good idea thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think that's entirely a matter of interpertation. I don't find your tone condascending at all. I think you make valid points about what others might learn from all the fighting. I want to know more about what you personally learned from it though. I'd hate to think everyone can learn so much from it and you can't. What kind of impact do you think all the bickering had on you and what would you do better next time (or else how would you avoid it, assuming that's what you want)? I'd rather hear more about what you felt and feel, thought and think, what you've learned, than what others may glean. i am very matter of fact, i do not go out of my way to manage other peoples emotions because i genuinely do not want that burden here as i already spent my whole life interpreting and adapting to and managing the threat of others emotions, i want to find my own centre within myself and be honest with how i feel, own those feelings but not minimise them at the risk of offending others, i will not spend my life being worried about others insecurities at the risk of my own sence of self. there is a time and place for that (work for me) but not here i do not feel. i also take a very long time to get to know people/trust them/respect them and value them, so i dont go around giving out hugs and sweet words to people i do not feel genuinely inclind to, there are some i do, some i genuinely and very much care about and feel for, but i hate the idea of falsity or pretentions etc so i do not automaticly do that for everyone oh and i wouldnt necessarily avoid the next argument, i hope there isnt one, or that it is handled better, etc, but i would never stand aside and see someone ganged up on, or stay silent if i felt something very wrong was being said. i realy wish we could all stick to discussing the actual issues brought up though, rather than peoples personal feelings about otehr people here, i would rather learn from people than learn who not to trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placebo69a Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 iv learned that i can stand up for others being treated unfairly without getting personally angry /annoyed Getting angry is always personal in my opinion, wouldn't you agree? Even when it's someone else that's being treated unfairly, it's one's own sense of justice that's being violated and therefore it is one's own, personal anger. It is a very natural emotion and I value the message behind it, if not the actions it demands. i also take a very long time to get to know people/trust them/respect them and value them, so i dont go around giving out hugs and sweet words to people i do not feel genuinely inclind to, there are some i do, some i genuinely and very much care about and feel for, but i hate the idea of falsity or pretentions etc so i do not automaticly do that for everyone I have to say that I, too, take a very long time to get to know people/trust them/respect them and value them. That being said I don't think going around giving out hugs and sweet words to strangers is at all pretentious or false. I think it's a very positive attitude to be kind to people you don't know, and it's an effective way to get to know people you meet better. If you have a "sunny disposition" people are more likely to react positively towards you. I think if everyone in the world treated strangers this way (going around giving out hugs and saying sweet words), there'd be a lot less violence. I can't make the people around me act kindly towards strangers, and I don't try to. I can, however, treat strangers kindly and hope to lead by example. When people see how well I am rewarded by treating strangers kindly they may be inspired to do the same. My kindness towards strangers isn't false, it's not make believe at all. How is being kind to someone I don't know a lie? I don't know them and I don't have any reason not to be kind to them, now do I? I guess not trusting people doesn't stop me from being kind to them (until they perceivably fail me anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 iv learned that i can stand up for others being treated unfairly without getting personally angry /annoyed Getting angry is always personal in my opinion, wouldn't you agree? Even when it's someone else that's being treated unfairly, it's one's own sense of justice that's being violated and therefore it is one's own, personal anger. It is a very natural emotion and I value the message behind it, if not the actions it demands. i also take a very long time to get to know people/trust them/respect them and value them, so i dont go around giving out hugs and sweet words to people i do not feel genuinely inclind to, there are some i do, some i genuinely and very much care about and feel for, but i hate the idea of falsity or pretentions etc so i do not automaticly do that for everyone I have to say that I, too, take a very long time to get to know people/trust them/respect them and value them. That being said I don't think going around giving out hugs and sweet words to strangers is at all pretentious or false. I think it's a very positive attitude to be kind to people you don't know, and it's an effective way to get to know people you meet better. If you have a "sunny disposition" people are more likely to react positively towards you. I think if everyone in the world treated strangers this way (going around giving out hugs and saying sweet words), there'd be a lot less violence. I can't make the people around me act kindly towards strangers, and I don't try to. I can, however, treat strangers kindly and hope to lead by example. When people see how well I am rewarded by treating strangers kindly they may be inspired to do the same. My kindness towards strangers isn't false, it's not make believe at all. How is being kind to someone I don't know a lie? I don't know them and I don't have any reason not to be kind to them, now do I? I guess not trusting people doesn't stop me from being kind to them (until they perceivably fail me anyway). i dont necessarily think its pretentious or false for others, but for me personally it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barebones Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Hi, i am not picking or anything, i actually wanted to say to placebo, thank you for your response in a post of mine, you saying what you did, i actually felt that sincere from you. You have a very good understanding in yourself aswell as when things are appropriate. I used to give the hugs and all that stuff, but it was used against me at a time i didnt understand. So i follor your thougth placebo. I used to be a person who didnt trust to point of paranoia, i then let it go to the extreme in being open, i have now found middle ground. Roxy, however you see yourself just now, is not going to be the same in the future, you say that you go and help underdogs or who is under attack, could i say that is very dangerouse game to be in. I have no understanding where you come from, i have said what i thought month or so ago, that is due to, i have no understanding of why your here, if everything is fine and you have found yourself, and your happy with yourself, why do you sprout out books? i am not being argumentiative or being anything, i really struggle in knowing where your coming from. I don't give out hugs or anything for sake of it, i know when i should now. Sry i really don't understand somethings with you, its maybe prob i maybe of been like you actually in sort of ways, but it is not helpfull, in just knowing about kids, the whole family unit and society in where it stands now. Not sure how you would feel if someone here and i have seen peeps come here, who has post natel depression, and i used to work in the mental health hospital where i live. No book will give me the experience like practical experience and being involved. Sry this is totaly what the subject is not about, so sry. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Roxy, however you see yourself just now, is not going to be the same in the future, you say that you go and help underdogs or who is under attack, could i say that is very dangerouse game to be in. Roxy has been very helpful to me and she sees my point of view. She is not sycophantic though, she has also challenged me when I have been wrong. It is very dangerous for ME, being an underdog and being attacked, to not be helped!!! I have no understanding where you come from, i have said what i thought month or so ago, that is due to, i have no understanding of why your here, if everything is fine and you have found yourself, and your happy with yourself, why do you sprout out books? People who read and learn from books and share that knowledge can be very valuable to our community here I feel. Particularly people who have mental health issues themselves and can also talk from experience. You can't get that from a professional . i am not being argumentiative or being anything, i really struggle in knowing where your coming from. Perhaps she is just being supportive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barebones Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Thanks meme for answering the post, but your not roxy. I havent said she is not supportive, but you saying that your an underdog and she understands you? diffrent thing all together from my point of view. Your not an underdog for one, one says if your being attacked is will be on yourside, regardless if right or wrong. Crunch line, like i said and is dangerous, i made a post about the extent i went through in joining the underdogs, that itself is not true reconision of right and wrong, left or right, it making a choice because oneself thinks i will go with the person who supposibly is put apone, regardless of what is put infront. Sry i am not explaining myself well here. I allways choosed later in life to be diffrent, but infact no i was being like others. Books? i love them meme as you know, but true fact is reading books does not rule over practical experience and being there in it. I have experience with this with my husband. I wont explain again as it has been said. This is not bullying, this is not asking for argument, this is me responding as i am just sitting here, not angry, not looking for oh great fishwifys to protect me or any shit. This is me posting and giving an experience which no text book will give. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 This is not bullying, this is not asking for argument, this is me responding as i am just sitting here, not angry, not looking for oh great fishwifys to protect me or any shit. This is me posting and giving an experience which no text book will give. Ok thats cool Barebones . Theres a place for 'real life' experience as well. You can't learn everything from books. Did you ever watch the film Good Will Hunting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barebones Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 sry meme, i cant even remeber last film i watched lol. i dont think i have seen, unsure, maybe ask hubby. will have a look ib the film, i am up for anything. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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