Issues About Size And Fat Girls At Parties

[Sammy]

First off I'd like to say size 14 is not in most cases overweight unless you're short - my 12 yr old daughter is a size 14 and fits within the average size scale at the doctors.

If you have body issues and look at someone as size 14 - who is average size, not overweight, healthy and see them getting attention off guys - please don't make comments like the overweight girls have it easy and get loads of attention as this is an incorrect statement and undermining to those that are really overweight and have never had attention from guys in their life.

A) The fat girl is the one who didn't go to college and uni because she was bullied enough at school

The fat girl is the one that was brave enough to still go to uni despite being bullied at school, but whilst you're at all the parties she'll be in her room crying herself to sleep because yet again she's not been invited to the party

C) The fat girl is the one someone may have felt sorry for this time, invited her along to the party with their group, then abandoned her in the corner by herself as one by one the rest of the girls in the group paired off with guys.

D) The fat girl is the one that watches the guys buy all her mates a drink but noone ever buys her a drink, chats her up, asks her to dance, or comes over to dance with her.

Please note you may find her dancing by herself as all her mates left her there too and she's too self aware and humiliated to exit the dance floor. She may also eventually stop accepting even the odd invite she gets to go out, knowing too well the outcome of going to these events or nightclubs or pubs etc..

[piuma]

(((((((((((((((sammy and daughter))))))))))))))))))))) hope she hasnt experienced this!!! i now i have

when i left boarding school i steadily went from being very skinny to getting bigger and bigger, i experienced a lot of that during seniors, i wasnt even fat then, but i had big boobs and i hated the attention it drew, not in a good way, xxx

[Sammy]

She says she hasn't, like I said she isn't in the overweight category at the doctors and in my opinion she doesn't look overweight either.

My average weight when I left school was about size 16 - and at that size up to the size I am now 28 I have suffered all the abuse and isolation that I have talked about on here.

I've never had a guy ask me to dance, never had a guy offer to buy me a drink, never been whistled at, never been chatted up even.

How did I find my fella? On a chat line that I was on trying to find a date for my mate, and my fella said he didn't want to know about her he wanted to know about me. The only time I've ever had someone genuinely interested in ME was on a chat line where he couldn't see what I looked like.

Piuma I thank you for your understanding and I'm sorry you have suffered this too.

[Sammy]

I'm sorry I know this thread sounds like I feel sorry for myself but I was tossing and turning the last 3 hours in bed over some things that had been said on here and the only way I'm going to get to sleep is by getting this out there.

[AveMaria]

Awww sorry you've had all that happen to you, Sammy! People are very judgmental and anything that makes you different than average can make you stick out, often in a negative way. People seem to notice things like that whether its weight, intelligence, other physical characteristics, shyness, personality traits, clothes... etc. Its no fun feeling like the odd one out though.

xxx

[Sammy]

Thankyou AveMarie I appreciate your words.

I wanted to add that I'm also scared of ever working again, because even in an environment that is meant to be professioinal and all adults, I have been bullied, picked on and shunned. In one job I had the supervisor and staff all used to call me wide load and Godzilla, in other jobs people think it's ok to make jokes about my size too, in another I've had a guy run me over with a forklift truck whilst shouting fatty out the way.

Not every person I've worked with has been nasty, but within every job I've had there has been someone that has been like this towards me.

(except here where noone can see me)

I'm pretty much almost a lock up, because I hate going out alone, and often can't even go out with someone.

My social life is next to zero, I have one friend I've known for a long time and she lives on the same street as me and I'm lucky to see her once a month because she works and I'm too scared to even walk to the end of my street.

I do make effort to take the kids to the park, we have a large one near us where I can normally find somewhere isolated.

I push myself to take them to the cinema or bowling when I can too, or out for a meal - but sometimes I walk in, hear the noise and see all the people and walk out again and come home.

I definately could NEVER go to a weight loss group or a gym where people there would be comparing me to themselves and others and judging me, or sticking me on scales or measuring my size. Even at the doctors I get told to close my eyes when I step on the scales because I'm near hysterics over it.

And as to the opinion of overweight being socially acceptable, if that were the case none of this would occur. There also wouldn't be diets being advertised every week, and slim shakes and before and after pics, and food programmes about health eating and lifestyle and biggest loser etc...

[piuma]

in an argument i had with my sister this evenign, which was the icing on the cake lol, she said to me steph there is nothing wrong with you, you just need to lose weight then you will be happy, i have never been happy, from skinny to fat, ive never been satisfied with my size, i too sammy im anything from 24-28 depends on what it is. it sucks. do you want those things sammy? im taking it from your post you do! im sad for you hun. i am different there, i want men to stay away from me, i dont want to be admired or touched or loved. BUT, i most certainly did when i was younger and maybe in the future i will again i duno! xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[AveMaria]

Have you tried self esteem or self empowerment classes to help you not be bothered as much? I think people of all different sizes can be attractive and the most attractive people are very self aware and empowered. They can be any size, shape, color... etc. Totally different scenario, but I felt very similar when I was pregnant for the first time. It was when I was 17 and attending high school and then uni and most people just thought I was fat and I'd try to hide and not attract any attention. But then I was a lot more confident and felt more "glowing" during my second pregnancy and that made me feel like everyone around me was thinking positive thoughts instead of just waiting for and hiding away from all the negativity. You are such an amazing person, I can't believe that in rl people would be mean to you based on your appearance. They are obviously very shallow people who have made it very easy for you to see how rotten they are on the inside. You are worth so much more than them, there is no comparison. I wish that stopped their actions and words from hurting though. Keep your head up high and be proud of who you are.

xxx

[Sammy]

I don't want those things anymore because I'm in a commited relationship for the last 3 years and I am happy with him. But yes in the past and growing up I would have liked those things, even if only so I hadn't felt like the outsider, unwanted, pushed out and so disgusting.

[piuma]

just wanted to addi work as a teacher, now my private pupils are lovely to me and im sure they do tease behind my back but never would they say anything to my face. how ever in the schools its a very different story, in senior school as i walk through they laugh at me. as im walking they say bwm bwm bwm, i pretend i cant hear, and tell myself its ok they are just kids! in primary its dif, the kids whisper to each other wow look at the size of her. same i cant say anything obviously so i pretend. i have to sing in a band when i go out, i get the same thing when i am carrying the gear through, oh look out wide load, shamoo tank!! sometimes i ignore it, b ut more recently since i have been worse mentally i have ben telling them to fuck off, sadly it makes things worse. i used to break down and cry all the time, now, i just punish myself more. just wanted to say i understand. im sorry you feel similar, its so hard (((((((sammy))))))

[Sammy]

Yes I've done many many many self esteem courses, I've worked on assertiveness and I've practiced positive thinking and daily mantra's and listing all the good things about myself. And of course I don't think about all this bad stuff every day because I'm pretty much hiding from it now - but even if I can go a week where I don't let these people get to me, it eventually wears you down, it's so easy to say not to be hurt by others opinions of you and how it reflects more about them than it does about you, but when it happens every day, no matter where you are it's hard to keep up that battle

The funny thing is that I hate my best friend and my fiance telling me I'm beautiful too, because it makes me feel really uncomfortable because I know it's not true but it's wrong to say that as a response when someone gives you a compliment, so you have to sit there and say thankyou when inside your head is screaming.

[Sammy]

Ok, have felt that released feeling now and think I might be able to get some sleep, thankyou Piuma and AveMarie and anyone else reading that's allowed me to air my racing thoughts.

[Sammy]

What I will say is if you were in an abusive relationship they wouldn't send you on a self esteem course till you were out of the situation, because a self esteem course isn't going to help you whilst you still suffer the daily put downs.

Also when you attend self esteem courses they talk about things in the past that might have caused your low self esteem, so those courses are aimed at repairing the damage done. Trying to improve your self esteem whilst still in a situation where you are being put down daily and abused and called names makes it next to impossible to ever really get your self esteem back. I have had days or weeks where I have moments of feeling good about myself, loving myself, knowing I am good and beautiful, but then it is crushed again.

[toaster]

I have been from anorexic to fat back to anorexic again.

As a teen in school I was horrendously skinny. I was bullied for many reasons but the bullies used my 'anorexia' against me. Truth of the matter is I was seriously underdeveloped from not being fed properly at home. More bizarre is that I felt fat as my foster mum called me as such.

When I was fat I thought that I would be ok if I lost the weight. Thought I would feel better about my body, about going shopping for clothes, that I would be attractive etc.

As a 'skinny' girl now, nothing has changed in my perception of myself. I still hate my body, I still have what I now know is social phobia. I still feel ugly.

The worst thing is I can't even stuff my face any more. I love food but the pressure I put on myself is stronger. I have to stay skinny. When I lost the first lot of weight, before I 'took it too far' people would be praising me etc. I felt such pressure not to put the weight back on that the only way I could see of avoiding that was to carry on losing.

Skinny/fat/average - it doesn't matter. It is how we feel as people. If I had an ounce of self worth I would care what I am doing to my body. The same for everyone else. We just don't care enough about ourselves to see the physical damage.

Hope everyone eventually finds some type of peace xx

[Sammy]

I understand that Toaster, I know even if I lost all the weight I would still hate my body. I know if I had millions of pounds I would probably have tons of surgery in an attempt to make myself look acceptable to myself, and the truth is I probably never would.

[Jaimie_CS]

thankyou toaster, i really appreciate what you said.

sammy i'm fairly certain you started this thread in response to what i said in angel's topic.

Obviously dress sizes are not a good indication of overweight or not, because they depend entirely on how tall you are.

but i stand by what i said in the other thread that slightly overweight people, while they may not be comfortable with their bodies are not ostracized for being fat in mainstream society, not the way very very thin girls are. My sister and one of my closest friends are a size 14 and 16, they are considered attractive and dont suffer bullying, but they could stand to lose a few pounds, both have bmi's out of the healthy weight range. My other friend however is very thin, she's a size 8 and 180cm, she's rake thin and has no chest or bum. she never gets asked out by guys and most other girls shun her because they are (warpedly) jealous of her body. another friend is anorexic and she shunned by most people because it makes them so uncomfortable to look at her.

all four girls were bullied in high school, for being too fat or too thin when none of them were. as adults the larger girls have a much easier time of it. They are seen as the healthy ones, the fun ones, they eat and enjoy food and they have curves. and most importantly to other girls, they are not perect, and are therefore likeable.

all of this was in relation to the comment that it is more socially acceptable to be overweight than severely underweight.

all of this was not meant to include, nor demean severely overweight people. My mum is severely overweight, i see how they are treated, how horrible it is, and the social stigma attached to it. i would never dream of saying that obese people are treated well in society or that they choose to be that way.

another point - the point you make about diets being advertised, weight loss shows etc, i think illustrates the point - noone would ever dream of making a biggest gainer style show, it would make people very uncomfortable to have to deal with people who are anorexic because its a recognised illness - and one that messes with people over their views on society and the image of beauty. There is weight loss advertising all over the place because a) being overweight is far, far more predominant than underweight, and b ) being overweight is not recognised as any sort of disorder, it is seen as a lifestyle choice and one that can be changed with motivation.

i know that's not true. i know that being overweight is caused by the same sorts of psychological issues as ed's (as well as poor education.)

People feel comfortable talking about being fat, they feel comfortable telling people their views on it - and while that is extremely unpleasant and wounding for the people who experience it, it does demonstrate, i think, that society is more comfortable with obesity than with anorexia, most likely because for the public it lacks the stigma of mental illness.

I'm not saying its easier being larger or smaller, or normal, im not saying the way people think is right.

and just so you know i can relate to what you're saying - i was probably the girl most bullied for her appearance at my school, i was a normal weight (although i was called fat sometimes) but i had horrifying acne all over my face and body. I was mercilessly teased for something that was completely out of my control, and something i couldnt change.

[walker]

xxxxxxxxxxxx

i am fat

i hate my body

i am disgustd by how i look

yet

in my head i am a child and look nothing like that unless i catch sight in a mirror or window

i - like toaster - was not happy when i was slim - and i was a very skinny kid

yes i was happier than now, thats not hard really, but it was never right - not as an 8 or 10 or 12 etc so i know if i lose it again the pleasure will be very short lived - and then i get scared that people will find me attractive (in my dreams) and that scares me too

i am pleased when it rains and i can wear a coat

i am pleased when its winter and i can hide

but i have to say - looking around me now - people are MUCH bigger in general, so i guess we will soon be the skinny ones

[roxy222]

i get really bothered that people notice my body at all

im realy one of the lucky ones, im tall, and when i put on weight it goes on in nice places, i actually like how i look when i am a size forteen better than when im my usual 10 to 12 ish, but im naturally slimer so if im bigger its cause i eat too much junk and the feel unhealthy cause of that. when i was much skinnier and at school i got called fat (a size 8 to 10 fat!!!) but because i allways have hips, theighs and boobs regardless of size this is what i got from people. now i get called skinny (despite being bigger now) and i hate it, why does my body even have to get looked at??? why does any bodys? my body is not public property and i am not interested in other peoples opinions about it. why is it socially acceptable to comment on people looking thin? just because someone might think its a nice thing doesnt mean it is, i find it offensive. same goes for getting told i look pale and tired, if i turned round to someone and said oh you look a nice shade of fake orange they wouldnt find it appropriate, why is it ok for people to comment on me looking pale. makes me mad, the whole issue, we are not our appearances, we should not be made to feel what size we are defines who we are, whether thats a good or bad definition its still out of order. we are all going to end up fat and saggy and grey and wrinky sooner rather than later so i just wish everyone out there could drop the whole appearance oriegntated thing altogether.

sorry rant over

[catspiracy]

When i first joined the Burning Man community, I felt fat (around 180 lbs), old, dowdy, lame, awkward, and ugly. There are a lot of gorgeous centerfold-worthy hotties dancing around in their glorious nakedness in this community. I remember going to the Las Vegas regional event with my extra-large friend, V. The whole way there, we commiserated about how we could never dare to bare certain areas of our bodies "like the skinny hot chicks do". She's about 100 pounds heavier than I am, and she kept telling me I was being ridiculous, that I was beautiful and if she were as slim as me, she'd prance around in her scanties. This made me feel that head-exploding feeling you describe, Sammy. Yeah, she was even fatter than me. That didnt mean I was pretty enough for "The Beautiful People" to think so. Then when we got there, another gal A. and I started really connecting. She is 6 feet tall, supermodel giraffe figure, blonde ringlets to her waist, and a face like Michelle Pfeiffer. Yet she lamented her body image issues post car-wreck, and swore she'd never bare body parts x, y, or z. At that moment, my head IMPLODED. Wait a minute, I was making V. sick complaining about my body, and here's a lady making me sick by complaining about her body when she was born airbrushed by god! And I opened my eyes, and suddenly I could see a woman or two even further from the "beauty ideal" than V, even, and I heard A. give away some age insecurities that made me understand she felt she could never compete with the under-30 paradigm, either. And I became enlightened to the fact that there will always be people bigger and smaller than me, older and younger, prettier and uglier than me! So WHO CARES??? The ones that find me delightful to gaze upon, can feast their eyes. The ones that find me unsightly, can avert their gaze.

That's one good thing about nudism: it promotes a lot of eye contact!

Anyhow, that night was the night I got topless at a burner event for the first time, and it was one of the most empowering intervals in my life. Now, I do figure modeling for art classes (in the nude) and even though every time, I get very nervous about all those trained eyes taking in every roll, fold, and dimple (not to mention my self inflicted scars), it really brings me back to that empowered moment again. I love seeing myself through all the different artist's points of view. Each chooses a different focal point, and that proves to me that beauty really, scientifically, factually, is in the eye of the beholder!!!

Sammy, if someone is telling you they find you beautiful, you've got to find a way to receive that compliment. Receiving is what we're really bad at though, isnt it.....but I think it's a layer deeper even than self-esteem, which is why self esteem classes may not have done the trick. It takes a lot of risk to go out on a limb that way, to walk with confidence in your own skin. It takes knowing that other people's opinions are like assholes--everyone's got one and most of them stink! hehe hugs to you, and here in america, big beautiful women are a dime a dozen!

[catspiracy]

oh yeah and about advertising, it's a CAT-spiracy. People are making money off of first making us fat and diabetic with junk food. Then they use our primal need for acceptance to make us feel fat and ugly so we will buy their beauty products. Those who get sick from the processes foods pay big pharmaceutical for drugs that have side effects that require more drugs. It's not about beauty, health, or love at all--it's about money. Avoid that pandering advertising like the plague!

[Barebones]

Thanks sammy, this is a good topic for me and my daughter.

My daughter is 10 and is a size 8 in adult clothes, she has a pop belly, but over all that is no indication of being overweight, she is tall, and she is solid. This summer she did alot of swimming with friend, and she kept on looking at her belly, she said, eww i don't have much of a belly on me anymore. I told her she wasn't fat/overwieght in the first place, she said some boys at school has been calling some of them fat.

I remember at her age, i was just normal, when pubity and hormones is i put on weight, at 13 my sis called me fat, and that resulted in part of why i started to criticaly look at myself, don;t need to go into the depth of the ED, later i think at 18 when in ireland, i was at my heaviest, 11 stone, no indication at all of being fat, i came back to where i am now and joined scottish slimmers, did it help me? lol no i abused it, that is when my ED came really aparent, i got to target weight with in 2 months, again wont go into detail how. Being down further in weight, actually made me feel better in a wrong way, this is when i met my husband, i became really ill looking, but hey that seemed at the time excetable at that time. So really since even then i kept battling for the ideal look and weight, now i am size 14, past 3 years due to health it has gone up and down, like someone said i think in another topic, i have 6 diffrent sizes of clothes, it aint even funny.

Going back to my daughter, she has never been aware of my ED, as it is a closed inside of me, only my husband is aware of what i do. I don't know, todays society once again fails to impress me, the amount of pressure on girls today, to look a certain way is unbelievable, on top of going through maturity, hormones, periods, the whole shibang. All i know i can do for my daughter is be honest, and try to keep her self asteem up.

Thanks again sammy, you ahve gave me some insight and also others about image and other issues on this.

xx

[Ruth24]

Sammy i'm so sorry I was tactless in the other post. I have read everything you have written and disgusted by the abuse you have had. I don't understand why people would purposly go out of their way to hurt people because of their appearance

I find it disgusting and a disturbing reflection of society

[Sammy]

Wow wasn't expecting so many understanding responses - guess it goes to show that not everyone is like that. I feel very moved by peoples responses.

Ruth what you go through is unfair too, you're right it shouldn't happen - I also don't understand why people have a desire to hurt others they don't know who have never done anything to them either. You really didn't need to apologise in here as you already had in the other thread and I'd accepted. I'm sorry for anything I said that has offended you too.

I hate this argument about what is more socially accepted because I know from my own personal experience that being overweight I have always been ostracised (even when I was as low as a size 16) However unless you are overweight and experiencing it, you can only go by what you've seen - which is a biased view based on you feeling unaccepted at the other end of the scale.

I can accept that being excessively underweight would draw negative attention, I thing these days if you're not between a size 10-14 (based on average height, obviously this size changes for shorter or taller people) then you get negative attention for either being too thin or too fat.

Another difference that I'd like to point out though is this, and I can only speak for myself here, is that if I see someone extremely underweight, the first thoughts and feelings that come to my head are of concern for the person. I would actually feel too uncomfortable raising it as an issue unless I knew the person well enough to get personal with them.

However I don't believe when others see an overweight person - particularly extremely overweight that the first thoughts and feelings they have are of concern - but of disgust. Now maybe that's my projection of my own feelings on them or maybe it's a reflection of all the abuse I get from others due to my weight.

And I don't believe that they show overweight people on tv in the light they do because overweight people are more socially acceptable - I believe it's because it's more socially acceptable to publicly humiliate them, whereas more compassion is shown for someone suffering from anorexia - how insulted would you be if as you suggest they did a how much weight can you gain show for anorexics?

[Data]

However I don't believe when others see an overweight person - particularly extremely overweight that the first thoughts and feelings they have are of concern - but of disgust. Now maybe that's my projection of my own feelings on them or maybe it's a reflection of all the abuse I get from others due to my weight.

To be honest (too honest?!) when I see a very very thin person my first thought is disgust.

I find women who are larger than the ideal weight quite attractive sometimes.

Intellectually, I try not to judge people for being over or underweight. Indeed I am overweight myself so I would be being a hypocrite. There can be all sorts of reasons why someone is not the ideal weight. So, I try to show concern and understanding not ridicule or ignorance.

Emotionally, I can't help how I feel. I don't find extreme thinness attractive at all. Thats just my personal preference and there is nothing I can (or should?) do about it.

[Sammy]

And it's ridiculous to say that overweight people are not stigmatised - because overweight people are automatically seen as greedy and lazy by the majority. With comments like stuffing our faces - do you use that comment to a normal sized person? I don't stuff my face - I eat my food just like anyone else does!

And yes meme there are some guys out there that like bigger women - but those guys are seen as having a fetish for bigger women because it's not the norm.

There are also guys that would prefer the ultra thin women - not sure if this is seen as a fetish so can't comment.