toaster Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 And it's ridiculous to say that overweight people are not stigmatised - because overweight people are automatically seen as greedy and lazy by the majority. With comments like stuffing our faces - do you use that comment to a normal sized person? I don't stuff my face - I eat my food just like anyone else does! And yes meme there are some guys out there that like bigger women - but those guys are seen as having a fetish for bigger women because it's not the norm. There are also guys that would prefer the ultra thin women - not sure if this is seen as a fetish so can't comment. any person can be stigmatised against about anything that the bully chooses to find. and the guys who 'prefer' bigger women may just not 'prefer' skinnier women so therefore that isnt a fetsih, that could be seen as stigmatising against the skinny person. i hae an ED but am underweight. When I eat, I stuff myself like the true binge eater I am. So yes, 'stuffing', to me, is not limited to size. nor can we know how anyone else eats unless they choose to tell us. we always assume that we are just the same or totally different but we don't know what is going on in other peeps minds, how they perceive themselves. it seems more like u r judging yourself, sammy - that isnt a crticism merely an observation hope u r ok other wise :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 And yes meme there are some guys out there that like bigger women - but those guys are seen as having a fetish for bigger women because it's not the norm. There are also guys that would prefer the ultra thin women - not sure if this is seen as a fetish so can't comment. Technically, fetishism refers to inanimate objects. I am not attracted to very large ladies, just a bit larger than normal thats all. I think thats quite common actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 I know I judge myself - but I do feel the root cause of that is the daily abuse I've received about my weight for so many years - It's hard not to be disgusted with myself when so many others are and have been for so many years. But just because I judge myself poorly doesn't mean anyone else has the right to do so. You say preferring bigger women isn't a fetish but if you check out fetishes you'll find it actually is listed as a fetish, because it's not seen as normal to find larger women attractive - it's seen as something strange or obscene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 no one has the right to verbally abuse anyone , i agree but i also feel, about myself, that if i dont like myself then how in gods name can i expect others to like me? the people that matter see the person, not the size. an that icludes our percception of ourselves. we should matter to us so we should see US. theory is easy though, I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 the people that matter see the person, not the size. an that icludes our percception of ourselves. we should matter to us so we should see US. theory is easy though, I know My theory is that if I think "uurgh a very thin person" followed by "you should not feel disgust, feel concern instead!" then... I will mess my head up. Its just like what mum did to me, try to control how I felt rather than accepted it. However, it is wrong to abuse people verbally (or any other way) because of their size. I personally think I have to make myself aware of my predjudices so that I can ensure I don't act on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Learning to control our own thoughts and feelings is not the same as someone else trying to control us! Just saying. Whenever I catch myself thinking something mean or wrong I tell myself that it is unnecessary and then have it as something I need to be mindful of in future. One way I can do this is to look at why I had this thought or feeling and question whether it reflects reality and whether or not their might be other factors as to the situation that I had not considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpy Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 i can remember at school.i had a friend who was overweight,i was very skinny & undernourished,i always looked ill,she always looked glowing with health,yet she got most of the stick.really not fair. people just never took the time to get to know her. not sure why i posted this really.does'nt help you sammy or your daughter sorry. kel x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 i can remember at school.i had a friend who was overweight,i was very skinny & undernourished,i always looked ill,she always looked glowing with health,yet she got most of the stick.really not fair. people just never took the time to get to know her. not sure why i posted this really.does'nt help you sammy or your daughter sorry. kel x my best friend at school was overweight yet she was never bullied, she was the one always sticking up for me when i was targeted - yet she hated her appearance as much as i hated mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 One way I can do this is to look at why I had this thought or feeling and question whether it reflects reality and whether or not their might be other factors as to the situation that I had not considered. Yea and thats good but if you do know all the facts then you should accept that how you feel is how you feel without trying to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 the people that matter see the person, not the size. an that icludes our percception of ourselves. we should matter to us so we should see US. theory is easy though, I know My theory is that if I think "uurgh a very thin person" followed by "you should not feel disgust, feel concern instead!" then... I will mess my head up. Its just like what mum did to me, try to control how I felt rather than accepted it. However, it is wrong to abuse people verbally (or any other way) because of their size. I personally think I have to make myself aware of my predjudices so that I can ensure I don't act on them. Feeling disgust at at overly skinny person is nothing to feel ashamed of. also you should not feel that you should have more concern for their health. They are strangers to you and you have every right to choose what you find attractive, unnattractive and totally unattractive. It is acceptable to feel the disgust, you can't change the way you feel. I find excessivly hairy men repulsive! I was at a petrol station wit my friend and i saw an over skinny person getting out of her car. I said to my friend 'I'm glad I'm not that thin, she said to me, actually you are thinner!!! And yet i don't see it. That really scared me. I was disgusted by a woman who was bigger than me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 i like the tv program supersize verses super skinny (i think thats the name) its shows just how unhealthy both eating to much and too little can be, fairly, and i dont feel its judgemental (although understand others may disagree i think the media can encourage the view that over weight people are lazy and ignorant, i read a magazine article a while back where a family who were all over weight were complaining that they should all get more disability benefits because they are overweight and they can not work because they were over weight and that it was not their fault they were overweight because they could only afford unheathly food cause of having so little benefits (despite them adding up to quite a large sum). they had health conditions that related to being overweight, like type two diabities etc and still made no effort to eat well or exersise - saying a gym cost too much, even though a walk is free! the same magazine has had plenty of articles about people with anarexia and and chosen people who others have more sympathy for, like children. same magazine regluarly comments on the body sizes of many celebs, critical of both weight gain and loss obviously the over weight people in teh first story were out of order, and obviously there are people out there who are anaerexic who could insite the same annoyance from the public (perhaps someone who refused to admit they had a problem despite getting lots of nhs help etc who refused to attend therapy despite having parents and children begging them too, or for example a model who claimed they didnt care about changing because they only wanted to be thin because anything was ugly) there are individuals of both extreemes out there who no doubt fit the stereotypes, but i very much doubt the majority of fat or thin people do, and its unfair for the media to play on such stereotypes. this magaizine could have posted a story about overweight people who do work and try to take care of themselves, or they could have posted a story about the pyschological issues behind being overwight (like they do with being underweight). or they could have posted stories about celebs that have nothing to do with their weight. different people suit different weights anyways, everyone comes in different shapes and sizes. its whats inside that counts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Sorry, this is more of a PS. Sammy, you mentioned about going to buy clothes. I know exactly how depressing that can be. Yesterday my friend took me shopping to get clothes for my holiday. She wants me to wear new clothes to show my family how well i am coping and looking after myself. i am lucky to have a mate that cares for me so much. She is a size 16, and i think her figure is lovely (although she thiks she is fat).They had some gorgeous really flattering clothes for a size 16 and i was so envious. the smallest size they had was an 8 ( i am a 4 or less) so i usually have to buy teenage clothes-age 14. But mutton dressed as lamb!!! I know all these new clothes will be too big for me so we chose some tops with tie backs or tops that would look ok baggy. I just have to make do with what i can find. I have no boobs so i like to keep my top half well covered. Its hard because i want to look nice for my holiday, I haven't even dared try my new clothes on yet because i know how awful it will look, but my friend is so supportive and helps find the most flattering outfits for me. Its quite bizzare but we are dieting together. She is trying to lose, I am trying to gain. She tells me off if i skip a meal and i am on the other end of the phone if she wants a binge. Its a case of 'put the mars bar on the ground and place your hands where i can see them'. We make a bit of a joke about it, but we both have ED, its just the other way round. We both struggle but support each other. I realise how lucky i am to have a friend like her. She doesn't put me down for being skinny or say 'oh i wish i was like you' because she knows how hard it is. I never say 'I wish i was as fat as you' That would be totally invalidating each others feeling about ourselves. does that make sense? Anyway, rambling. sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Awww wish I had a friend as supportive as you and your friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Roxy - I don't go out for walks anymore either - I rehomed my dog because I'd got him so that it would encourage me to go out for walks - after 4 weeks of abuse every time I left my house with the dog I could no longer take it anymore and stopped taking him out for walks, feeling guilty about his neglect I rehomed him. It's easy to say going out for a walk is free but if you can't handle the reactions you get when people see you out and about, then going out for a walk becomes impossible. So, I can do exercise at home - again easy to say but how easy is it to find motivation to do that? Lets look at it in the sense that I need to lose at least 10 stone and they say 2lb a week is healthy weight loss. It would still take years for me to lose that weight even if weight loss was steady at 2lb which from what I've seen when I exercise I start off putting on weight, meaning now I have more to lose, then I lose 2lb a week for a couple of months, then suddenly I stop losing weight despite exercising. Add on top of this the fact I have ME and diabetes - when I exercise I get very tired and physically unwell - this tiredness lasts for days and makes me feel drunk tired with aching body. Easy to tell me not to go to bed in the daytime as this is unhealthy for me, but when you are literally falling asleep on your feet and can't keep awake it's not a matter of choice anymore. And then there is the eat healthy thing which is great in theory, except I can eat salad for 2-3 weeks and then along come the HUGE cravings to eat something bad for me, which even if I resists for so long eventually I cave, then it's like a snowball and I spend a week binging - sometimes purging on it. I have such an unhealthy view on food, I feel food is bad - any food. I feel guilty every time I eat, whether it's a small meal, healthy meal, large meal, unhealthy meal - I still feel guilty and disgusted with myself for giving in and eating. And all the advertised diets out there and healthy eating food shows and shows about people losing weight just make me feel even worse about myself, my eating habits and my exercise or lack of exercise habits. And Roxy yes if I read that article all I would do is internalise it and think this is how everyone is viewing me. Media likes to focus on the negative and twisting public opinion. They like to encourage and reinforce stigma and negative stereotyping. It's very sad :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 In our area if your BMI is over a certain amount you can get free exercise classes and subsidised membership to a local gym. I think there are tablets they can give you as well although I'm not sure on the contradinications with medication and other health problems. They change the way your body absorbs fat but again they only prsecribe them if your BMI is over a certain amount. Don't know if this is the same in all NHS trusts???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Here you can get a referral for half price leisure club membership but it's only for 12 weeks and you're commited to signing up for a year! so that means I'd still have to pay full price for the remainder of the year. But again even if it was free you're talking about me going somewhere with lots of better looking, fit people who are gonna see me the big lump of lard walk through the door who can't even come close to doing the stuff they are doing, looks awful in tight fitting clothes with belly showing (cuz they don't do fitness clothes in my size) and goes on the walking machine (for example) walks really slowly whilst person next to her jogging and then after 2-5 minutes is sweating like a pig and can't breathe, collapses on floor gasping for breath and feeling like dying - whilst all these other people are breezing through it. hrmm my dream day out! I'll ask about the pills but I think being diabetic with high cholesterol it's highly unlikely they'll prescribe anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Oh also that half price membership thing....it doesn't mean you can go to the gym or swimming every day for free because you're a member, it reduces the cost of going to the gym or swimming by £1 a session! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Here it is under the 'active living' team and they do lot of different types of classes from chair exercise to water aerobics. Water aerobics is good cos you only see the top half of you and the rest is under the water. The water takes the weight of your body a bit and so it doesn't end up with pulled muscles and the such. I have a back problem and it's chronic so the aquaerobics was good for me as so many of the other exercises I can't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barebones Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Hi sammy, i really do hear what your saying. My lovely nana, she was a big lady, i never felt any disgust or anything about her size, she worked hard for a living, and all i remember when you got hugs from her, is was soft, warm, and really cuddly. I do miss that. She never made me aware if she was ever slagged of because of her weight or anything, when i grew up, i never felt disgust at a person appearence, in my self i have allways excepted what people looked like and it didnt compare to what was inside, if you understand? Anyway just wanted to say, i am listening hun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Barebones exactly, I've always thought EVERYONE is beautiful - I've never looked at someone and felt disgust at their appearance (sometimes concern but never disgust), however I have often felt disgusted by a persons behaviour. I really like the description you gave of your nana, she sounds lovely - I hope my kids and future grandchildren feel that way about me - maybe there is something positive about being big after all! My best friend is a size 10 and looks healthy with it - sometimes she seems to lose weight and start to look ill and then I might question it because I know that this happens when she's feeling down or under stress, so for me her losing weight is a sign/indicator that all is not well with her. I know she hates if someone mentions that she's lost weight but we only mention it out of concern. If I were to say to her, are you ok? She will answer yes I'm fine and won't open up, when I say to her hunny you seem to have lost some weight what's wrong? Although she gets upset at her weight being mentioned she admits there is something wrong and opens up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Roxy - I don't go out for walks anymore either - I rehomed my dog because I'd got him so that it would encourage me to go out for walks - after 4 weeks of abuse every time I left my house with the dog I could no longer take it anymore and stopped taking him out for walks, feeling guilty about his neglect I rehomed him. It's easy to say going out for a walk is free but if you can't handle the reactions you get when people see you out and about, then going out for a walk becomes impossible. So, I can do exercise at home - again easy to say but how easy is it to find motivation to do that? Lets look at it in the sense that I need to lose at least 10 stone and they say 2lb a week is healthy weight loss. It would still take years for me to lose that weight even if weight loss was steady at 2lb which from what I've seen when I exercise I start off putting on weight, meaning now I have more to lose, then I lose 2lb a week for a couple of months, then suddenly I stop losing weight despite exercising. Add on top of this the fact I have ME and diabetes - when I exercise I get very tired and physically unwell - this tiredness lasts for days and makes me feel drunk tired with aching body. Easy to tell me not to go to bed in the daytime as this is unhealthy for me, but when you are literally falling asleep on your feet and can't keep awake it's not a matter of choice anymore. And then there is the eat healthy thing which is great in theory, except I can eat salad for 2-3 weeks and then along come the HUGE cravings to eat something bad for me, which even if I resists for so long eventually I cave, then it's like a snowball and I spend a week binging - sometimes purging on it. I have such an unhealthy view on food, I feel food is bad - any food. I feel guilty every time I eat, whether it's a small meal, healthy meal, large meal, unhealthy meal - I still feel guilty and disgusted with myself for giving in and eating. And all the advertised diets out there and healthy eating food shows and shows about people losing weight just make me feel even worse about myself, my eating habits and my exercise or lack of exercise habits. And Roxy yes if I read that article all I would do is internalise it and think this is how everyone is viewing me. Media likes to focus on the negative and twisting public opinion. They like to encourage and reinforce stigma and negative stereotyping. It's very sad thats why i think it sucks people look at weight at all i have issues with exersise due to severe injuries/chronic pain/coordination problems/joint problems as well as body memeories that it can trigger, and have lots of food issues (although definately not the eds i had when younger- more related to dissociative espisodes that i struggle with now) so i know its not that simple. what i was meaning is that how the magazine article portrayed this family these are the automatic conclusions then drawn about fat people, rather than reasonable, balanced sympathetic views encourage by their portrayal of anarexics (ofcourse this is just this one magazine) and the focus on weight by the media as a whole throws in even more problems to the mix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Yep I think some of it is about media portrayal of the issue and some of it is cruel vindictive people that will pick up on anything they can use to hurt a person that they feel is an easy target. The thing is lots of kids get picked on at school for all sorts of things, wearing glasses, having spots, ginger hair, fat, thin whatever.. Once you're an adult you don't really see someone with glasses getting picked on, because wearing glasses is not a sign that you have low self esteem or psycholgoical problems. If you're overweight or underweight it's like wearing a neon sign that you probably have psychological and emotional issues as well as low self esteem, making you a vulnerable target to nasty people who are to cowardice to start on someone that might stand up for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 That is a very good point sammy. I never even thought of that before xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barebones Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Barebones exactly, I've always thought EVERYONE is beautiful - I've never looked at someone and felt disgust at their appearance (sometimes concern but never disgust), however I have often felt disgusted by a persons behaviour. I really like the description you gave of your nana, she sounds lovely - I hope my kids and future grandchildren feel that way about me - maybe there is something positive about being big after all! My best friend is a size 10 and looks healthy with it - sometimes she seems to lose weight and start to look ill and then I might question it because I know that this happens when she's feeling down or under stress, so for me her losing weight is a sign/indicator that all is not well with her. I know she hates if someone mentions that she's lost weight but we only mention it out of concern. If I were to say to her, are you ok? She will answer yes I'm fine and won't open up, when I say to her hunny you seem to have lost some weight what's wrong? Although she gets upset at her weight being mentioned she admits there is something wrong and opens up. I bet my life on it sammy, when you become a grandmother and i even think your daughter, will find you lovely as a person, and have same values as yourself, big to me is comfort, soft, hold true form of motherhood (me saying that, some might not agree) that is the part of my bond with my nana, i am sure either way, regardless if she was skinny, she would be that lovely soft person. Outside shows no indication of a persons true nature in the inside. I am sure your a great friend to have, all we can do is show concern and hope they open up. On my own health, my appearence is quite diseptive in what is wrong with me inside. Thats why i would never go on appearence to what a persons true nature is or health, it goes with animals, that big dog may look threatening, but infact if you knew it, it is a big softy, all we need to do is show some sort of respect, then maybe we wouldn't get our hands bitten off lol. xx sammy, your right about everyone has some sort of beauty, it just needs someone to open there eyes to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squeakybird Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Hi Sammy, You know, no one gets off easy, not even the pretty and popular ones (which I was neither). I remember being in awe of and a little jealous of this girl in a literary club I was in in High school. Her name was Anne. Of course she was the head cheerleader but apparently now that I think about it, she was tapping into her creative side by being in this club. My feelings remained the same. Some time later, I'd heard that she'd tried to commit suicide. You never know what is going on inside anybody's head and even still today, I think other people have bettr lives than I do, especially regarding friends (b/c I don't have any anymore ... just acquaintances). And another thing, you can be a size 10 and not have friends. Two things worth mentioning: 1) EVERYBODY at the gym compares theirself to other people no matter WHAT their body size! THEY DO!! And 2) You found someone to love you and marry you. There are many "pretty and skinny" women out there who have learned to put on such a front that they don't know who they are anymore and attract the wrong men; ergo, get divorced if they even marry. They are alone inside. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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