Bpd Is Too Often Used As An Excuse

[Ruth24]

As you know (well a lot of you) i am on holiday at the moment, visiting relatives in Scotland. got insomnia so borrowed sister;s computer

I have a lot of time to mull things over whilst here. My mental health, the health of those who use this site and BPD in general.

I have seen my arents whilst up here. I conclude that i don't blame them. yes, my mother is a witch and we clash, but i don't hold them responsible for my BPD. I feel it is something I was suseptable to and was triggered my childhood trauma. Blame does not need to be alloctaed. My sibligs and I view our childhood differently, but we are different people. i am much more emotional and my siblings are much more logical.

Oncw diagnosed with BPD it was a relief because it explained my self destructive behaviour. But since chatting with my sister, I now realise how much i blamed the BPD and not myself.

"i can't help it, i'm ill"

"people don't understand what its like for me, its not my fault"

"I just can't help myself, its these damn mood swings, they control me"

"I just can't control my temper, i have BPD"

"I get pissed and do stupid things because i have BPD"

I will take the last one on my list to use as an example. A person with BPD gets drunk because they are feeling low (obviously due to BPD) and have a one night stand (low self esteem due to BPD), don't take precutions (too pissed) and fear pregnancy STI etc

Wouldn't it be so great to say, "all of that happened because i am mentally ill, I have BPD, it wasn't my fault, i couldn't help myself. poor me"

BULLSHIT!!!!!!

BPD is merely an explanation as to why we feel the way we feel about ourselves and others. Poor interaction, self loathing, low self esteem etc. It is a REASON that explains why we feel the way we do. It is not an EXCUSE to get out of feeling guilty for our behaviour.

BPD does not force us to do unnaceptable behaiour. We do that f our own free will.

Too many times i have read posts on here wanting sympathy or understanding for unacceptable behaviour. People to say, "its ok, its not your fault". Well i beg to differ. We are all in control of our behaviour. BPD makes it harder i grant you that, but we do have conrol and we have to take responsibility and stop blaming everybody and everything except ourselves.

We only live once (well, tht we can remember). We need to get out there and live it and stop being victims of BPD.

I won't let it rule my life, I will get better, i simply need to change my attitude and beliefs, which is going to be difficult but possible. Carpe diem!

forget blame and excuses. I just want to get out there and be the best person i can be. If i fuck up, which everybody does from time to time, it will be MY fault. Not BPD, not my parents, not my past. MINE!!!

I'm sorry if this pisses some people off. Although the ones it pisses of are probably the ones that like to blame BPD and not themselves, so i take that apology back. I have blames BPD many times, but if i want to get better i have to stop

[Jaimie_CS]

I never know how to feel about this.

I was dx with bipolar long before bpd, and that is something that's out of my control, but i try to moderate my behavior to live my life the best way i can. the bpd dx was like - there's a reason i act like this? and i wasnt sure if i thought that was awesome because it was such a convenient explanation or whether i was upset because if its not just me behaving stupidly for no reason, then its going to be harder to change.

I dont mind at all taking responsibility for the personality side of things, bpd or not, its still who i am and it always will be, im always going to be emotional and flighty and feel things more than other people, but ill just have to learn to cope better with my reactions.

the depression side of bipolar though, and the anxiety - i used to beat myself up about fucking up my life during those periods, not by outrageous behavior, but by avoiding commitments etc. it was something of a relief to one day just go, this is HARD, and maybe its not just me being lazy and maybe i shoudlnt feel so guilty about it, and maybe it would be okay to take medication if that makes life easier.

In truth though, its the bulimia, which i suppose is part of the bpd that's ruined my life, the money, my health, the anti-social behavior. And although it was my choice to start doing that, i try to view it as an addiction and tell myself its okay to need help with it, because if it was heroin, people wouldnt expect it to be easy.

im not on any meds, but i want to be, and im hoping that will get me to the point where i can take control of my life.

[mugsy]

i agree we do need to take responsability for our actions but also as gem says some things are out of our control. I think thats where i get confused but i think we just have to take things as they come and work it out for ourselves. I guess when things do go wrong its working out why thats more important than who/what is to blame. On the other hand its so easier said than done when you have intense anger towards your past. thats really hard to get past for me but just because my actions now may be learnt behaviour due to my past doesnt mean i have no responsibility over them equally taking responsability doesnt have to include beating yourself up over something (another one thats difficult to get the balance for).One thing I would say tho is that when people have more than one diagnosis it does get more confusing.This is definately something to think about.

[foreverborderline]

BS - BPD is real , hell, you have BPD so you should know that already ... but it is not used as an excuse .. I scream and yell at people in the world , I don't like to do it but it happens.

There are no excuses in life , only REASONS . And BPD is a reason for a whole lotta pain and suffering in MY life ... so yes, I am irritated that you made such an insensitive post .. And you say - that people should blame themselves and not BPD ... well, BPD IS myself , it is all the same ... maybe YOU should not be so ignorant.

[foreverborderline]

You do seem pretty anger about this, I guess what I was trying to say is for some of us we need to use it as an excuse ( your words ) so we can survive ..

[toaster]

I can choose how to react to my feelings, choose whether or not i get pissed, use drugs, yell at people, sef harm etc etc

I can't control my feelings nor can I control my thoughts, my perceptions, beliefs I don't yet know are really only opinions...how do you question and change something you don't know about?

BPD is different for everyone. Some have 4 symptons, some have them all. A person with self-harm ideation might self harm in a different way to another person with the same ideation.

To not blame the people that hurt me as a child would be an insult to myself, to that little girl I once was. I didn't go throught what I did to simply push it to one side, ignore it.

I wish you luck in 'stopping' in whatever you want to stop.

[bibiddi]

As you know (well a lot of you) i am on holiday at the moment, visiting relatives in Scotland. got insomnia so borrowed sister;s computer

I have a lot of time to mull things over whilst here. My mental health, the health of those who use this site and BPD in general.

I have seen my arents whilst up here. I conclude that i don't blame them. yes, my mother is a witch and we clash, but i don't hold them responsible for my BPD. I feel it is something I was suseptable to and was triggered my childhood trauma. Blame does not need to be alloctaed. My sibligs and I view our childhood differently, but we are different people. i am much more emotional and my siblings are much more logical.

Oncw diagnosed with BPD it was a relief because it explained my self destructive behaviour. But since chatting with my sister, I now realise how much i blamed the BPD and not myself.

"i can't help it, i'm ill"

"people don't understand what its like for me, its not my fault"

"I just can't help myself, its these damn mood swings, they control me"

"I just can't control my temper, i have BPD"

"I get pissed and do stupid things because i have BPD"

I will take the last one on my list to use as an example. A person with BPD gets drunk because they are feeling low (obviously due to BPD) and have a one night stand (low self esteem due to BPD), don't take precutions (too pissed) and fear pregnancy STI etc

Wouldn't it be so great to say, "all of that happened because i am mentally ill, I have BPD, it wasn't my fault, i couldn't help myself. poor me"

BULLSHIT!!!!!!

BPD is merely an explanation as to why we feel the way we feel about ourselves and others. Poor interaction, self loathing, low self esteem etc. It is a REASON that explains why we feel the way we do. It is not an EXCUSE to get out of feeling guilty for our behaviour.

BPD does not force us to do unnaceptable behaiour. We do that f our own free will.

Too many times i have read posts on here wanting sympathy or understanding for unacceptable behaviour. People to say, "its ok, its not your fault". Well i beg to differ. We are all in control of our behaviour. BPD makes it harder i grant you that, but we do have conrol and we have to take responsibility and stop blaming everybody and everything except ourselves.

We only live once (well, tht we can remember). We need to get out there and live it and stop being victims of BPD.

I won't let it rule my life, I will get better, i simply need to change my attitude and beliefs, which is going to be difficult but possible. Carpe diem!

forget blame and excuses. I just want to get out there and be the best person i can be. If i fuck up, which everybody does from time to time, it will be MY fault. Not BPD, not my parents, not my past. MINE!!!

I'm sorry if this pisses some people off. Although the ones it pisses of are probably the ones that like to blame BPD and not themselves, so i take that apology back. I have blames BPD many times, but if i want to get better i have to stop

Everyones lives are different and go at different rates. Roller coaster is a good way to describe them. It seems that for you at this time you are looking at your illness, and trying ways to change it for the better - Which has to be a good thing. Whether it is the right way for you I have no idea. But you do sound angry - are you angry about having to change?

I do agree with you it is a reason, but not an 'excuse'. However the behaviour and emotional patterns start before the diagnosis of BPD.

At the moment it seems so covered in anger that would suggest that you look at your emotional side as you seem to be lashing out at others rather than dealing with your own anger.

For some, at this moment using it as an 'excuse' is exactly the right thing to do, as that his helping keep them alive.

I do think you may be on the right track for you at this moment, but I would suggest slowing things down. If you have been doing something one way all your life, it is very difficult and scary to change.

[Shelley]

I 'acted out' before I was diagnosed BPD and also quit alcohol before I was diagnosed as BPD.

So I never blamed BPD as I didn't know I had it.

Only when my life was more settled did I get a BPD dx, and giving me a lot of insight into why I acted out so badly in my past, everything made sense, I found the missing jig-saw piece.

This is how it was/is for me.

[Jaimie_CS]

I think there is an element of choice that people sometimes ignore, or dont take responsibility for - a good example is:

I know I shoudlnt drink. it triggers me. so if i drink, and i experience psychoses, or i panic or it triggers me in any other way, i think that's my fault, and i cant blame anyone else for it.

However I can't help being depressed, i cant help being agitated when im manic, i cant help that i react strongly to things - but i can try to control how i express my reactions.

[roxy222]

i agree that people are responsibile for the choices they make, any adult is (bar someone declared legaly insane, or iq below 70). but people are not responsible for who they are, and how they feel is a big part of that, and feelings absolutely should not be denied. often how people feel becomes their reality, for example someone who is agraphobic will know its safe to go ot but will not feel that way and therefore it will become unsafe for them. people are often much more capable of taking responsiblity for their lifes when they find support and understanding to deal with their feelings so that they so not have to live them out and react like a victim of circumstance, and the same is true when they find acceptance and support and care and understanding from themselves, so i wounder why you would make a choice to throw out so much anger at people here (and yourself) rather than compassion which is much more likely to enable people to cope with their feelings and therefore become resposible for their choices than your judgement and what feels entirely like rage.

[Kyan]

Majoritively, I have to agree with you Ruth.

BPD is classified as a personality disorder, and as most of us have had experience with this, we know that they are often not considered "real" disorders by a lot of (incorrect) clinicians.

I assume the reason many do not take it seriously is because, unlike psychosis or major depression, which are often triggered and have obvious, clear, and treatable symptoms, BPD is not so clear cut. It is a disorder of your personality; so, for this case, we can say that it's more deeply ingrained into who you are as a collection of emotions and feelings- your personality.

So in many ways, BPD is actually a type of personality. Therefore, you can already see it is different from your "usual" MH issues. As such, we sufferers are often expected to take more accountability for our illness than those with other illnesses which are not personality based. With this, I disagee, because it's classified as a valid, real illness; and for all intents and purposes, it is. So we should not be held more accountable than anyone else for our SYMPTOMS.

HOWEVER! We are still in control, mostly, for the way we react to our feelings. People who disagree with me here should really think about this. Because if we're NOT responsible for our actions, then the guy who hits his wife because she accidentally burned his shirt or the woman who beats her husband (it's happened, many times) because he didn't earn enough money are FINE BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT IN CONTROL.

No. It's not fine. They had a choice to act upon their anger, legitimate or not. And so do we. Just because we cycle through thousands of emotions and feel things so much stronger than those around us does NOT give us an excuse to act like utter idiots (which I have done, many times) in social situations.

We have BPD. We may be more prone to feeling bad, or angry. But that doesn't mean we have to be prone to being asshats. The essential "cure" to BPD is controlling your reactions to your emotions and then, after that, getting to the bottom of them and finding out why you are how you are. It's a long, hard, and dangerous journey, but we all have to take it.

[Data]

Ruth, I partly disagree with you. This may be a problem for those of you who practice 'splitting' .

In my case, I know my parents are responsible for my BPD. Their defective parenting caused it. However, I am not going to use the word 'blame', because in my case they thought they were doing the right thing. They were misguided rather than bad.

I believe that, although there may be more than one factor contributing to a person getting BPD, bad parenting is by far the biggest cause. And, I have seen cases where the mother has had a different attitude to one of the siblings and they have ended up with BPD whereas the others have been mentally healthy. So, just because your brother or sister is ok, it does not prove that it is genetic.

I am NOT responsible for how I feel. A lot of my feelings are pretty unpleasant: rage, anger, jealousy, indifference. However, these DO arise from my BPD, which is a problem that I know I will never be completely free from and a problem that is NOT my fault.

BPD is an integral part of a person, and things like "its not me, its my BPD" are meaningless. BPD is as much a part of you as your face, your eyes, your skin colour or your sense of humour.

Having said all of that, we are responsible for our behaviour. BPD may explain our actions, but it does not always excuse them. Just because you have mental health problems, for example, it does not mean you have a right to hurt other people.

And of course, we are all responsible for facing up to our problems and getting help. The thing I liked about your post, Ruth, is that you seem to be doing that: you want to change your behaviour.

I sincerely hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday .

[roxy222]

Majoritively, I have to agree with you Ruth.

BPD is classified as a personality disorder, and as most of us have had experience with this, we know that they are often not considered "real" disorders by a lot of (incorrect) clinicians.

I assume the reason many do not take it seriously is because, unlike psychosis or major depression, which are often triggered and have obvious, clear, and treatable symptoms, BPD is not so clear cut. It is a disorder of your personality; so, for this case, we can say that it's more deeply ingrained into who you are as a collection of emotions and feelings- your personality.

So in many ways, BPD is actually a type of personality. Therefore, you can already see it is different from your "usual" MH issues. As such, we sufferers are often expected to take more accountability for our illness than those with other illnesses which are not personality based. With this, I disagee, because it's classified as a valid, real illness; and for all intents and purposes, it is. So we should not be held more accountable than anyone else for our SYMPTOMS.

HOWEVER! We are still in control, mostly, for the way we react to our feelings. People who disagree with me here should really think about this. Because if we're NOT responsible for our actions, then the guy who hits his wife because she accidentally burned his shirt or the woman who beats her husband (it's happened, many times) because he didn't earn enough money are FINE BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT IN CONTROL.

No. It's not fine. They had a choice to act upon their anger, legitimate or not. And so do we. Just because we cycle through thousands of emotions and feel things so much stronger than those around us does NOT give us an excuse to act like utter idiots (which I have done, many times) in social situations.

We have BPD. We may be more prone to feeling bad, or angry. But that doesn't mean we have to be prone to being asshats. The essential "cure" to BPD is controlling your reactions to your emotions and then, after that, getting to the bottom of them and finding out why you are how you are. It's a long, hard, and dangerous journey, but we all have to take it.

did you mean to say asshats? i really like that, im going to use that in future!!! so ace of youxx

[roxy222]

Ruth, I partly disagree with you. This may be a problem for those of you who practice 'splitting' .

In my case, I know my parents are responsible for my BPD. Their defective parenting caused it. However, I am not going to use the word 'blame', because in my case they thought they were doing the right thing. They were misguided rather than bad.

I believe that, although there may be more than one factor contributing to a person getting BPD, bad parenting is by far the biggest cause. And, I have seen cases where the mother has had a different attitude to one of the siblings and they have ended up with BPD whereas the others have been mentally healthy. So, just because your brother or sister is ok, it does not prove that it is genetic.

I am NOT responsible for how I feel. A lot of my feelings are pretty unpleasant: rage, anger, jealousy, indifference. However, these DO arise from my BPD, which is a problem that I know I will never be completely free from and a problem that is NOT my fault.

BPD is an integral part of a person, and things like "its not me, its my BPD" are meaningless. BPD is as much a part of you as your face, your eyes, your skin colour or your sense of humour.

Having said all of that, we are responsible for our behaviour. BPD may explain our actions, but it does not always excuse them. Just because you have mental health problems, for example, it does not mean you have a right to hurt other people.

And of course, we are all responsible for facing up to our problems and getting help. The thing I liked about your post, Ruth, is that you seem to be doing that: you want to change your behaviour.

I sincerely hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday .

98% of all of the research studies into genetics v experience are funded to proove that genetics are a cause, and as of yet they have been unable too, so that kinda makes it glaringly obvious. even if they did find a gene for bpd, or any mh, it wouldnt mean much, there is a gene for heart disewase and yet everyone is well aware that those who have this gene and take acer of themselves and follow medical advice are 100% less likely to end up with heart disease than those who dont have this gene and who drink and smoke and are oveweight and highly stressed. enviroment has a much mor significant influence on developement, and exviroment for the first few years of life (the significant ones) is entirely dependant on parenting or how parents choose to support a child with their experience of enviroment.

[drew]

some times i use my bpd as an excuse to do things but is that not part of my bpd

[Aneurysm]

"It is not an EXCUSE to get out of feeling guilty for our behaviour."

I feel guilty enough in general without self-punishing for -to use your example- getting drunk and having a one night stand.

[placebo69a]

You're right, it did irritate some people. Namely me.

I don't use BPD as an excuse and the very idea of taking advantage of my mental illness to shirk responsibility is abhorrent to me. I don't know how you can, as a sufferer of the condition, legitimize a view that invalidates the premise behind your diagnosis.

I don't drink, and I don't have sex so I don't have to worry about pregnancy and STD's. I do however fail to meet my deadlines for school-work, get bursts of raw emotion in which I hurt people who care about me, have constant thoughts of emptiness, inadequacy, loneliness and killing myself, behave in a reckless manner when driving (I'm getting better at controlling this) and when it comes to substance abuse and lack a certain continuum in my experience of the world around due to sporadic dissociative states.

I do not shirk responsibility for these short-comings. I use BPD as an explanation, not an excuse. If I hurt someone in an anger fit, I apologize to them later and try and make amends. If I get pulled over for speeding I pay my ticket. If I fail to meet a deadline I accept the consequences. I never try to "wiggle out" of my responsibility for my actions. I do however, put the blame on BPD, rather than on myself. I tell myself - You are not a bad person for doing these things, you are unwell. You are receiving treatment and these behaviours will lessen over time until they're practically gone for good.

Using a mental illness as excuse is pretty low. The fact that you couldn't act in another way is hardly disputed, but it does not excuse your actions. It's not your fault that you drank to excess, that you had sex with a stranger or that you had unprotected sex - But it is your responsibility! Don't say "oh I'm ill there's no helping me" - Recognize what bothers you about your behaviour and put some real effort into changing it in efficient ways. It's your life, not BPD's, that's just a condition you have it's not who you are.

[Data]

It's your life, not BPD's, that's just a condition you have it's not who you are.

I totally disagree with this. It is impossible to seperate out the BPD 'bits' from the rest of you, because.... BPD is an integral part of who you are.

[Sammy]

I no longer have certain bpd symptoms that I once had due to finding new coping techniques and making a committed effort to changing - therefore I think you can seperate bpd from who you are.

I also object to people having a go at Ruth for talking about responsibility for our own actions - she never said you can change how you feel or think - only that you can choose how to react to them or act - and I think this is true.

As an ex drug addict I also feel that drugs and alcohol are a choice. I think people once they accept an addiction - regardless if it was triggered by bpd or any other mental illness - and when they feel ready, with support can find ways to recover from addictions. By saying it is a choice, I am not saying you can give up overnight - otherwise it wouldn't be an addiction but you can still accept that you are addicted, realise you need to change and get help to do so. Some addicts don't want to give up, others are not ready at that time but then they need to accept that is their choice right now and that in the future they may make a different choice. If it wasn't a choice then there would be no way for any addict to recover ever!

Of course for people pre diagnosis or prior to realising there are other ways to act or react then they have less control/choices than those of us that are aware. I accept that some people just don't know any other way.

However I have seen people that are fully aware of the fact there are other options - maybe harder ones yes - but still choose to take the easy option for themselves that hurts themselves or/and others and then blame the bpd and say it is not their fault.

[Wobbles]

It's your life, not BPD's, that's just a condition you have it's not who you are.

I totally disagree with this. It is impossible to seperate out the BPD 'bits' from the rest of you, because.... BPD is an integral part of who you are.

I have to disagree with you here Meme. I don't believe it's impossible at all to separate out the BPD bits from the rest of you, because i am capable of doing it. It takes awareness and acceptance, and admittedly i have a long way to go, but i know it's definitely possible.

[roxy222]

I no longer have certain bpd symptoms that I once had due to finding new coping techniques and making a committed effort to changing - therefore I think you can seperate bpd from who you are.

I also object to people having a go at Ruth for talking about responsibility for our own actions - she never said you can change how you feel or think - only that you can choose how to react to them or act - and I think this is true.

As an ex drug addict I also feel that drugs and alcohol are a choice. I think people once they accept an addiction - regardless if it was triggered by bpd or any other mental illness - and when they feel ready, with support can find ways to recover from addictions. By saying it is a choice, I am not saying you can give up overnight - otherwise it wouldn't be an addiction but you can still accept that you are addicted, realise you need to change and get help to do so. Some addicts don't want to give up, others are not ready at that time but then they need to accept that is their choice right now and that in the future they may make a different choice. If it wasn't a choice then there would be no way for any addict to recover ever!

Of course for people pre diagnosis or prior to realising there are other ways to act or react then they have less control/choices than those of us that are aware. I accept that some people just don't know any other way.

However I have seen people that are fully aware of the fact there are other options - maybe harder ones yes - but still choose to take the easy option for themselves that hurts themselves or/and others and then blame the bpd and say it is not their fault.

i dotn think people are having a go at her, most of us have said we agree that people are resposnible for their choices, or some have said they feel partly so. i think the offense is likely to do with the level of anger she seems to be throwing at people here (herself included) which is concerning

[sanctuary]

Ruth,

I have to say 'Congratulations' to you. Do you know why? Because I think you are coming out the other side and you are now starting to leave the past behind. It seems you are getting better and that is great. Good for you.

However, you have clearly forgotten that not everyone is in the same place as you and although I am pleased for you that you are appearing to be rid of this illness, you cannot merely write off this diagnosis as pie in the sky. It is a very real problem and your minimising it is bound to piss people off. It's a bit like saying to someone with depression 'hey, pull yourself together and stop wallowing'.

For example, saying "BPD makes it harder i grant you that, but we do have control" completely disregards the powerful impulsiveness that goes on in my brain sometimes which overtakes any feeling of control I have. Impulsivity is harder to control than you give it credit for. Especially where patterns of response have been practiced again and again and our natural response becomes faulty. It's not just a shift in attitude but hard work and understanding ourselves that counts towards learning to change.

I hope you do not find yourself at the mercy of the illness again at any point in the future. And that your recovery allows you to move on with life in a positive way without looking back and bashing everyone else who hasn't made it yet.

Thansk for your brutal opinion. I'm sure there is some grain of reason in it somewhere.

[Sammy]

I'm sorry but I didn't read any anger in her post at all - but perhaps I'm missing something. Unless I see evidence that she was angry within her post or she says so herself I have to along the lines that she was not angry and that this is just a projection on to her.

Why I say this is..she had said she has spent some time thinking about this and then worded herself quite well, laying things out in order, there seems to be no confusion, contradictions, shouting, repetitiveness, illiteracy etc...what would indicate anger to me.

[roxy222]

It's your life, not BPD's, that's just a condition you have it's not who you are.

I totally disagree with this. It is impossible to seperate out the BPD 'bits' from the rest of you, because.... BPD is an integral part of who you are.

id imagine that itd be very difficult to seperate out certain aspects of bpd from who you are, low self worth for example, chronic emptiness, feelinsg of hopelessness, but i dont think this is about bpd being the core of who you are, but that these specific feelings are. they dont exist because of bpd, its the other way round, bpd (ina case where it is bpd) exists because of these feelings and where they comes from and the problems dealing with them

i feel often, despite many things going right in my life, that at my core i still live in chronic fear and terror, that i still beleive deep down that i will be dead soon, this is a replaying of the same fears i grew up with day after day and that does not mean that cptsd/ or whatever dissociative disorder i may have is at the core of who i am or will allways be entangled with my being, but that my experiences and feelings coming from them will

personality is fluid, for all people, and is liely to change dramaticly for people over time, so its unlikely that bpd is at the core of who people are, however character is something that is often far more set, and feelings of low self worth, emptiness, hopelessness likely influenec how people feel about their character therefore giving the impression that bpd is all that they are

does that make sence meme?

[Sammy]

Also unacceptable behaviour is defined by each individual - for example I feel it would be unacceptable for me to go out and get drunk and have a one night stand because of my circumstances and personal values. However in the past I have felt there was nothing wrong with me doing this as my circumstances were different as were my values at the time. So I'm not going to feel guilty for what I did in the past and I didn't feel guilty at the time either.

If others here choose to do that and feel ok about it then that is fine too. I don't agree with projecting our own values onto others unless the behaviours are harmful to others.

If however these behaviours are harmful to ourselves we have a choice whether to continue or stop this behaviour - but it's not about guilt - it's about self respect, self love, self care etc...