catspiracy Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 The speaker was talking of how our wound-based treatment models can never result in true healing, because they exist in the victims consciousness and limit us to viewing ourselves as WOUNDED. She prefers that we view the various things that have befallen us as INITIATION instead. All of them, no matter how horrible, happened in order "to open us, to soften us, to strengthen us, or to deepen us". When looked at in these terms, we take control of our own destiny and use life events as tools of, in her words, "Transcendance". (the speaker was a guest on the radio program, "A World of Possibilities".) What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 I think if you only focus on the negative then you can't see the positive. Have always said that. Of course if you can't see the positive how do you change the negative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placebo69a Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 I think the label is immaterial, but the message is vital. In other words: I think changing the conception of past traumas from being wounds to being initiations is not what's important. What's important is to realise that we can indeed grow as a result. That with all the pain of the experience comes an opportunity for real change. The chance to learn vital lessons that will help move us forward. The pain eventually fades but if we're smart, we keep the lesson and avoid repeating mistakes we've suffered from. The rhetoric is a bit spiritual and new-agey but the message is clear. There is more to our traumas than just pain and regrets. There is a real chance at growth and improvement. We would be wise to take advantage of the opportunity to grow stronger when it presents itself. One definition I found for "Transcendence" says it is "the state of excelling or surpassing or going beyond usual limits". I think that's as accurate a way of putting it as any I've heard. I couldn't agree with the sentiment more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 I pretty much agree with that philosophy myself. It is a positive way of saying what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. Great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 I think we need to focus less on labelling things and more on changing them. This happened - It had this result - This is how I am gonna move forward. All the technical psycho-babble is not my game I 'm afraid. Keep it simple. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Roses, if it's not for you then that's your fine. I got some real inspiriation from reading this... so if everyone kept it simple I would not have been inspired. Catspiracy was sharing some information that she herslef had heard. What's wrong with that? So Cat I would like to say thankyou. A world of possibilities is good food for the mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 I never said it was wrong I expressed my thoughts on it is all. Peace to all xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 its like the difference between saying victim or survivor (in terms of child abuse), and i dislike both terms saying victim suggests powerlessness in the here and now, as well as identification of someone by something that was done to them, not who they are survivor demeans the seriousness of of the truama, lets the abusers of the hook to some extent, and suggests that survivors somehow come out of the other end strionger and braver and proud blah blah blah, as if wev overcome some natural hurdle these are my feelings obviously, not saying it is that way for others i had a physio who complained about the previous physio who had labled my nerves damaged, she said that by thinking of them as damaged i would be less likely to take the steps to heal them, however the label atleast acknowledges the seriousness of the problem, so i dont feel either one was right wounded for me is part of who i am, not a road block in the way of getting better, acknowledging the seriousness of the truama was what helped to beging processing it and becoming more functionable, more responsible for myself that last sentance, that things that happen are to soften us etc etc, sounds like a nice little excuse for peados to use, kinda like the twisted mantras that organised child abuse groups use for mind control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesloaneranger Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 im not sure this does anything to me personally. ive read and re-read the comments the person on the radio said, and although i can see where they are coming from, i cant take anything from it. perhaps its a little too "guardian reader" for me, but i wanted to comment anyway as i can see how the phrases used will make alot of sense to some people. everyone interprets things differently, so i hope that some of you do find something inspiring in what was being said. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 that last sentance, that things that happen are to soften us etc etc, sounds like a nice little excuse for peados to use, kinda like the twisted mantras that organised child abuse groups use for mind control Whoa there!! You're really triggered by this no? Are you ok? Thinking of you... I don't think by any stretch of the imagination this is rational. Please, take care... I have observed your posts are getting quite anxious and I am worried for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 The speaker was talking of how our wound-based treatment models can never result in true healing, because they exist in the victims consciousness and limit us to viewing ourselves as WOUNDED. She prefers that we view the various things that have befallen us as INITIATION instead. All of them, no matter how horrible, happened in order "to open us, to soften us, to strengthen us, or to deepen us". When looked at in these terms, we take control of our own destiny and use life events as tools of, in her words, "Transcendance". (the speaker was a guest on the radio program, "A World of Possibilities".) What do you think? Have found the 'World of Possibilities' website and it's great stuff I find it inspiring but I cannot for the life of me find this particular subject.. any ideas where I can find it? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 that last sentance, that things that happen are to soften us etc etc, sounds like a nice little excuse for peados to use, kinda like the twisted mantras that organised child abuse groups use for mind control Whoa there!! You're really triggered by this no? Are you ok? Thinking of you... I don't think by any stretch of the imagination this is rational. Please, take care... I have observed your posts are getting quite anxious and I am worried for you... you dont think this is rational?? what because thats how you grew up up so youd know? well that is how i grew up, was concieve specifically for that purpose, so i would know and its exactly like the manipulative stuff they churn out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 Do you know what Roxy fuck it. I can't be bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saffron Posted August 15, 2009 Report Share Posted August 15, 2009 I think by renaming it will allow it to be viewed from a different perspective. GOne is the naming of wounded, where you would think of total harm without the healing process starting, By callling it an initiation gives it another meaning, it is now something we have had to endure but have come out learning and healing, even if it does take a while. It at least gets you thinking of it in another way. Thats what I feel about it anyway. A lot of illnesses have been 'renamed' for many psychological reasons, take schizophrenia for instance, normally associated with split personality, however that is now called dissociative identity disorder. sorry rambling now. Its a pity so many people have been triggered by this subject and I hope that we can all stand by each other in the end. Everyone is entitled to a difference in opinion. take care all Saffron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 its multipult personallity disorder that was renamed dissociative identity disorder, schzophrenia is still szchophrenia and its a common misconception that its a split personallity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiddi Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 If its an initiation, what are we being initiated into? Do we really need to be 'opened, softened, strengthened, or deepened" I can definitely understand where Roxy is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 thank you means ton and tons just now, thanksxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saffron Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 its multipult personallity disorder that was renamed dissociative identity disorder, schzophrenia is still szchophrenia and its a common misconception that its a split personallity and thats why they gave the 'split personality' a difference address so that it was not associated with schizophrenia. However, by readdressing any condition it provokes different thoughts about it that are aimed at being more positive. So although initiation seems a daft word to use it said as a simile. we are put through initiations everyday, we are put to the test constantly and getting through theses tasks will make us 'opened, softened, strengthened, or deepened' psycholgocially. Wounding just sounds like a harsh, negative word and that could also cause problems with loss of hope etc. anyway, thats what I like to think it is. Saffron :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 i personally find hope a horrid concept, i prefer to deal with reality, but that is likely just me but did was not invented so that split personallity wouldnt be associate with schz, it was the renaming of multipul personality and done so to show its truamatic roots, schz wasnt even part of the equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctuary Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 One man's trigger is another's salvation. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aneurysm Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 One man's trigger is another's salvation. Simple. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiddi Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 One man's trigger is another's salvation. Simple. Very true, but just to clarify here is the dictionarys definition of what initiation is. 1. formal admission or acceptance into an organization or club, adult status in one's community or society, etc. 2. the ceremonies or rites of admission. 3. the act of initiating. 4. the fact of being initiated. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/initiation I think that explains why I didn't like the word. As children we weren't involved in making a decision as to whether we wanted to be admitted into the 'group'. This is where I agreed with Roxy, ,saying our abuse was part of an initiation does sound like something an abuser would say. But if it works for you, then that is good. I am trying to explain why Roxy and I took a different view of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catspiracy Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 I can absolutely appreciate your and Roxy's interpretation of "initiation" and I can see why it would trigger. Sorry about that. I should have been more considerate of that perspective, it didn't occur to me To my mind, there are two key differences. The main one being that this is intended to be a self-identification as initiate, it is not for the abusers to label us as initiates. The abusers can rot. And the other is one of scale. The "club" we can be initiated into isn't some sort of human group, it's knowledge of the One, the Unity of all things, etc etc, like the hardships that monks or vision-questers go thru before achieving enlightenment. So yeah, the folks that don't buy that kind of spirituality have every reason to turn up their noses on that ground, too. I'm glad we can all talk about this philosophically without getting personal about our differences. You have raised some new questions and hopefully illuminated some future new answers for me. I'm trying to figure out which episode it was and give a linky...... love to all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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