hummm_mabbe Posted September 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 i love my anger so much!!! that and the emptiness feeling. they are the two emotions that are realy clear communicators that somefin is not quite right. if i didnt have them id trundel along doing all kinds of damage to me with all kinds of hurts getting allowed and overlooked and not dealt with i dont think i deal with the anger v well, but am real real glad i have it. oh yeah and - my angry part contains so so much knowledge!!! its incredible. there i was thinking i was absolutely unsure of everything then suddenly speak to anger and actually tons and tons of info!!!! thank god i have so much stuff there to fall back on cause god without that...... Hi Roxy Oops I missed this post ... yes I think I know what you mean, its like when I listen to it, I learn all sorts of new things. Its nice, because it is beginning to give me a sense of trust of what is inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Hmm I read this whole thread back again, my bits Sorry if I got a bit carried away and seemed preachy, I can get like that when things make me feel excited ... I should be aware that this is just a part of a bigger picture - I guess for me it seems like something massive, and that may make me a bit carried away when talking about it to others. Hope it didnt make it seem easy or simple or make anyone feel I was reducing or making things seem little when they arent. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I'm hugging my angry bits very tightly. they deserve to be loved too. Love the imagery xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I'm hugging my angry bits very tightly. they deserve to be loved too. Love the imagery xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx huggem :hug2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbles Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 *gives Ross a big cuddly cuddle* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hi dice I would by lying if I said that your reply hadnt made me feel angry, because it has - but I can see what you are saying. I should have realised that it would not be helpful to some people, and maybe you are feeling angry at the feelings the picture brought up, rather than being directly angry at me, I dont know - Im just trying to understand because at the moment, I feel personally criticised even if that may not be the case. In the past I wanted to get rid of my anger too, make it disappear. That cant happen because its part of being human, part of the way we are made, and its taken a long time to reach this stage for me. I realise that you feel a different way about my picture, and that issues of anger are very powerful for you. My thoughts are that the anger feeling, and the way you express anger, are two very different things. Feeling invalidated or that you have no right to be angry can make you feel like you must shout to be heard. Of course you do shout, and then others react badly to you, and you feel "see? my anger always causes others to hate me". You start to confuse the way you express anger with the angry feeling itself. This is exactly what Im trying to say with that picture - separate the feelings of anger from the way you express them. Validate your own feelings of anger, and have compassion for it, and its more likely that you will express it in a way that has repect for your own feelings, instead of the rage and defensiveness you may feel forced into using just to feel heard. Right now, because of the way you have replied, I feel defensive and angry at you. My first reaction was to dismiss you, or get angry back so that I could get my bad feelings out. That would just start an argument, possibly a long one that may go on for pages and pages, and wouldnt help either of us reach any kind of understanding. If you had told me that you found the picture invalidating, and eplained that for you, anger has always been something destructive and you wished you could get rid of it, then I would have respected that and tried to look at myself and see if Ive made a mistake. I may have apologised and been interested in what you thought and felt. As is, I find it very hard to do that, and as a result you probably feel even more angry at me, and even more like you want to shout some more. I think you have every right to feel angry, and to disagree, and to put your point of view across. What you feel is important enough to be heard, and so you dont need to shout at me and print in block capitals to make me listen. It may be that the people in yor life do not afford you that courtesy, and instead dismiss and invalidate you, and so it feels like the only choice is to shout, because that may be the only way they listen to you. But you have already said yourself that this way of expressing yourself causes damage to your relationships. The problem is that the feeling and the expression occur together, so it seems like the feeling itself is the problem. (It may also be that those people's dismissal and refusal to listen to your anger and feelings is part of the problem - after all, you may be expressing it to them reasonably, but if they still reject it and attack you, then they are being invalidating). I am talking about trying to separate that in my mind. It may be that this is very hard to do when with other people at first, so I am talkign about doing this when I am alone, when I am thinking of times I have felt angry or people I am angry with. I am not talking about it as a 'pick it up and use it' way of dealing with anger right now - its something that takes a very long time to have any effect in my relationships. I can see that, if I made it seem that this idea was a quick, easy solution to a very hard and complicated problem, that that would make some people angry. That wasnt what I had hoped to do - I realise this is an extremely hard issue for all of us. Expressing anger through shouting is not the same as the feeling of anger itself. Its not the angry feeling that is bad, its the effect on others of aggression and explosive rage, which ironically happen exactly because you expect to be dismissed, invalidated or patronised. Sometimes rage and aggression is justified - if you are being attacked or abused and you have tried every other way of defending yourself and are left with no other option for example - Im not saying you should never fight for what you belive in, because I think you should. You may feel I have patronised you here, or that there was a patronising tone to the picture - if so Im sorry. For me, the picture implies warmth, acceptance and care, but I can see how it would cause other feelings. Even though my reply might have been angry, I still respect how you feel because I can relate to those feelings very much, because it is how I have felt very frequently. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 *gives Ross a big cuddly cuddle* lol thank you :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dice Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Ross I am soo sorry for sayin what I said last nite... I should of never said it and I am sorry for makin you angry because of it... I was wrong to put it here when you was only tryin to help people... I feel really really bad for doin it I was silly but at the time maybe I should of not looked at it when I was so angry last nite... I was not angry at you and if it seemed like I was sorry it was the pic and the words in the pic, Got to me...I have lost lots of friends cause of my angry and I push them away I will be evil to them so they just fuck off... My angry last nite was so unreal I couldn't control it and I so wish I could take back the time and wish I never said what I did on here cause I NEVER want anyone to feel like I am angry at them when I not, I am soooo sorry... Please feel free to dismiss me or be angry at me take it out on me please please do it cause you have ever right to... I was a *unt to say what I did... I don't feel angry at you, You;ve done nothing wrong... To be honest with you Ross I feel like I am about to cry my eyes are fullin up cause I have made you angry at me... I was soooo in the wrong last nite sayin it and I am sorry again and I know I keep sayin it but I really am... My angry last nite was like the devil and I am still angry this mornin but not as much as I was last nite... I was not shoutin at you, I was shoutin at myself really writin it down everything really... It does feel like no one listens to me or when they do and see my angry they close the door on me, How the hell can I work on my angry problem when the door gets shut in my face... I wish I could control this devil I have but I can't with out help... I do hate feelin so angry I wish I could get it all out so I was not like I am sometimes, But I can only wish... I know its abit mixed up what I have said but I hope you get what I am tryin to say ect... But I will understand if you don't want to talk to me again and I fully understand but once again I am sooo very sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 hoping this is not too off topic - but read dice and ross i shout when i get angry, but only with certain people (USUALLY) or i scream inside never thought of seperateing the anger and the behaviour tricky one although i must be able to do it since i seem to do an awful lot of screaming inside my head ooo damn thoughts and words not matching still interesting anyway - got told off for shouting - ALWAYS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hullo dice Even though I was angry, I did mean what I said about wanting to understand what you were feeling. When I feel angry about things in my life, so much of it comes from a sense of pain, and of wanting to be listened to and understood. It seems that the feelings get me wrapped up in a bigger and bigger mess, and it drives me insane, and I guess I felt that in some way that was what you were feeling too. I dont want to dismiss you or hate you or any of those things. I did need to say that I felt upset, and the fact you have listened to me makes me very happy. I dont want you to feel ashamed or any of those things - that is really what I am trying to say in this thread. I understand that at the root, you felt angry and overwhelmed and it all spilled out. The anger is there for a good reason - through lots of things in the past, lots of times when you have felt angry and wanted or needed something to happen, and instead have been dismissed. My post has triggered all those feelings, and that happens to me a lot too so I dont condemn you for it. A large part of me feels a great deal of empathy for you, because I know what that built up ball of impossible anger feels like to have inside me too. I dont want you to take this as another example of how your anger is "bad" - it isnt. Your anger is something that is inside of you, and inside all of us, and it actually (although hard to belive now) serves an important and healthy function. I hope that even a little bit, you can see that I was not angry at the fact you were angry - it was only because the intensity with which it came out was unsettling for me. I dont know if you are anything like me, but what I am trying to say is that because I already feel my anger is wrong, that I must find the right way to express it, that I am probably over-reacting, and that others will punish me, that actually adds a hundred times the power to my anger. It adds anxiety and a sense that I have backed down yet again - its like "I must stand up for myself; but if I do it means im bad; now I feel angry because I am being walked all over", a vicious cirlce that happens in a few seconds. The result is I either have to swallow a huge amount of bad feeling, which makes me feel depressed, or I explode. What I am finding is that if I can have that warmth and acceptance for my anger, the vicious circle does not start. I can just respond to the angry part, instead of all those other parts that come along on top of it. The first step of that for me is seeing that my actions are not the same thing as the feeling itself - but like you I have seen my angry reactions cause lots of problems, and also felt that "my anger is bad". As long as I belive anger is bad, that I must be punished for expressing it, I stay stuck in that loop. Although it seems to go completely against every desire inside - the desire to stamp out the anger, or find the always right way to express it - hacing warmth for your anger actually takes you, eventually, out of that loop. It just feels so completely counter intuitive when someone says that. What I am finding is that when I can be compassionate with my anger, I still express it - but I dont need a technique from a book to help me do it. In fact the techniques in the past were doomed to failure, because inside I felt like I had no right to even use the technique. I realised it was that feeling of my anger being wrong and bad that was the problem, not the anger itself. Trying to be compasionate to myself actually makes it easier to express the angry feelings in a positive way - it doesnt mean I back down and let people roll over me, it means Im able to put emotion into what Im saying whilst still trying to understand the other person. I hope that the way I am talking about it doesnt make it seem like its simple to do. This has been a long prcess, about a year and a half, to get to this stage. I appreciate that I cant expect a person to "just have compassion for themself", because I know how long it has taken me. I guess really I hope that what I am saying might plant a little seed, so that at some point in the future you will no longer see your anger as an enemy, but something that can help you when it is not caught up by all those other feelings and thoughts. Do you wanna talk about what was making you so angry last night? I read your post about your doctor making you angry, was there other stuff too? Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 hoping this is not too off topic - but read dice and ross i shout when i get angry, but only with certain people (USUALLY) or i scream inside never thought of seperateing the anger and the behaviour tricky one although i must be able to do it since i seem to do an awful lot of screaming inside my head ooo damn thoughts and words not matching still interesting anyway - got told off for shouting - ALWAYS Hi walker Yes the separation of the two is something that I only realised kind of last week. It makes sense, because the reaction comes so close to the feeling, it all arrives in this big blob. So it makes sense that we might feel the feeling is the same as the action. The complication is all those other feelings in the background that we are only vaguely aware of - the feeling of shame over our anger, the feeling of anxiety that we will be punished for it, and possibly our own angry reaction against that punishment! Its clear that with all that going on, its no wonder we break up Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dice Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I have so much pain inside and it seems to come out as angry at the moment cause I need to be gone and when I have tryed to talk about it no one seemes to understand me... I let my angry work up thn when it gets so much and I can;t keep it I will go mad and say things do things I shouldn't, Like I did last nite... Yes your so true anger is there for a good reason but I just wish I was not so angry... Angry at myself for lettin things happened to me when I was kid, Angry at people not hellpin me when I was kid, Angry at my dad for doin what he did when I was a kid, Angry at myself for lovin people and thn losin them *I need a cig as I am cryin as I write this gives myself 5mins wow* When I feel angry I want people to go at me like I go at them and show them I aint lettin anyone walk over me or shit on me again like people have done before, Which is wrong cause I take it out on people who have done nothing wrong and it moment in time of my life I can't hug my angry or anything cause I hate it so much cause what it does to me... Sorry I am feelin ?????????, Now writin what I am angry at has ???????? me I just want to run away and hide and never come out of hidin... Yeah it is goin to be a very long run for me and I am ready for it but I never seem to get the help I need... A so called friend last nite just was really really pissin me off and I told her to fuck off and stop talkin to me thn she starts talkin to me like I was a kid and thats a very bad move with me, Plus on top of that I got a letter from my now ex Psychiatrist will not see me again cause after last time I seem him I kicked off and I did say how he makes me feel angry and called him a lot of names and how I want to punch him and yes I can see why he doesn't want to see me again but he has just lefted me hangin again, What a guess someone else leaves me cause of my angry... I do feel like I am fightin alone and no one will ever listen to me know matter how much I scream and beg for help, They just didn't see how much I really need it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hi dice It sounds to me like the thing you want most is for someone to just listen to you, let you get it all out, without interrupting, trying to change you or control you, or tell you that youre wrong and all those things. Its sounds like you just want someone to be there for you, to let the pain. and the anger, and all those feelings out, a person who can cope with those feelings from you without wanting to push them away. I dont know if this is similar to what you are feeling, but with my therapist I often feel like this. Sometimes I know she is trying to listen, but it feels to me like she hasnt heard me, or like she is telling me there is some simple solution and so on. That makes me feel so angry at her when that happens, and because there is so much built up inside, it takes so little for me to go from calm to enraged inside. Sometimes it leaks out on the surface too. For you it sounds like you have been through a great deal of hurt in your life - you know that if you dont fight, extremely bad things happen to you. It makes perfect sense that your anger would be very powerful, because anger is there to protect us. If you have been hurt in a very large way, your anger will be much greater too, especially if no one ever gives you that space to be able to express the anger at what was done to you or you are still surrounded by those people. If you are afraid of your anger, or see it as bad, that means that you will bung those feelings up yourself as well, like having two things holding it all in. It may be that when you start to try to explain it, even a small sense that the person is misunderstanding you can trigger that anger, because it all has to do with something very big and important. That will make it seem like you explode over small things to others, but to you the events are brining up all those powerful feelings that have been collecting for so long. I think it is right and good for you to talk about how angry you feel at those other people here, like your dad and so on. I know there are lots of folks here with some similar experiences, who would be very supportive if you could be able to say whats going on inside. I know it wont stop whats happening in your life right now, but at least if we can help you feel that you have the right to be angry, and let you get some of it out? I dont think your anger is wrong or bad, I think its a sign that you are hurting, and I know how much better I feel when someone lets us talk about whats hurting us. Maybe we can try to understand as best we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (sorry but must confess each time i see the heading of this thread i read it as HUG YOU ANGRY PRAT !!!!) sorry :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (sorry but must confess each time i see the heading of this thread i read it as HUG YOU ANGRY PRAT !!!!) sorry oo youve got "naughty dyslexia" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 guess it shows how my mind works - def default to anger lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dice Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 That all I want is for someone just to listen to me and let me say what I think and feel and how much I hurt and hate myself... And not leave me hangin after I have said things like everyone else seems to do... Well with my ex Psychiatrist he wouldn't listen to me and if I tryed to talk, He would tell me to listen to him and he would raise his voice at me and make out I was silly for thinkin about things and because I am very para I think people are lookin at me he would talk to me like I was fuckin silly for thinkin it... From the age of 5/6 the hurt has NEVER stopped and I can't ever seein it from stoppin... I am soooooo afraid of my angry cause I know what I can do when I get very angry and I am scared one day I will hurt someone if you know what I mean... Its hard to open up in away but on here I feel I can open up BUT not to much but more thn I could face to face... I mean I have seen a forum where you can write letters ect and I think I need to do a few letters just to get it out of my head and see if it helps... Its unreal how much I hurt, I still feel like I am a kid and not a 21year old... And Ross thank you very much for takin time and writin back to me, As you have every right not to talk to me because of how I was last nite with that post I put... So thank you ... Sorry my net played up when I was tryin to write back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hi dice You're very welcome, glad it has helped a little bit. That letter writing forum sounds like a good idea, maybe give you a chance to see whats inside and how you feel when its written out. I hope that you have felt listened to, and that maybe it will encourage you to find the right type of people in your life that can do this for you. Right now that may seem very far off. When you talk about being left hanging, do you know what it is you are needing from them at that point? I have found in therapy that I often dont know what it is I need or want from my therapist, I just somehow feel that something has been missed, something I needed or wanted, but didnt get. I dont have a good idea of what that thing is sometimes ... is this a bit like what that being left hanging feeling is? Psychiatrists can often lack a good bedside manner, something to do with their slightly mechanical way of seeing emotional struggles. Not all of them are like that, but I have come across a few that are. I can totally relate to feeling like a kid too, but that is slowly changing. In some ways its good to feel like a kid - to have access to that playful, happy part too. Its just very hard to get to that happy part when the hurt part is so big. Hopefully you can find someone who will help you to let that hurt out. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dice Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Yeah I do feel like I have been listened to and its wierd how its helped alittle by just writin a few things...I shall start on the letter maybe tonite I dunno cause I know its goin to hurt alot sayin things... No I have no clue what I need really, All I know it that I need someone to listen to me and help me control my angry, my OCD ect the lot but I have to take one thing at a time and not do it all at once...And yeah that is how I feel when they just left me hangin and I have know were else to turn to or anyone... But I didn't like feelin like I am a kid still and I want to be happy, feel happy with in myself, happy being me, but I can't as I do hate myself and hate what has happened to me and I can't get over that till someone will listen to me and help me with whatever I need... I am off to see my doc soon and get my meds as I haven't been on for abit, Which doesn't help and hopefully she will listen to me and work out what we're goin to do about the ex Psychiatrist and see if she can get someone else to see me and I do hope someone will... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Walker - I read it as that too xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piuma Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 argggghhh i have been avoiding this post, lol, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder why, me and anger have issues, but i do love it aswell. so mehh fuk it. i'll give it a hug (((((((((((((((((((angerpie)))))))))))))))))))))))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 argggghhh i have been avoiding this post, lol, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder why, me and anger have issues, but i do love it aswell. so mehh fuk it. i'll give it a hug (((((((((((((((((((angerpie)))))))))))))))))))))))) Hi Piuma Its interesting to see you say that. I noticed how much I want to avoid even talking about anger - how just thinking about the topic makes me feel such strong feelings. I recently broached this with my T, and I expected her to lay down all sorts of laws about appropriate expression, using empathy, using "I feel" statements, and basically subtly communicating that she thought anger was bad. She didnt do that - she seemed to understand that its something very important, but building up to having the convo, I was anticipating myself feeling very invalidated, getting very angry and bent out of shape. Guess it goes to show what a big, central issue this is when it comes to my struggles, cos if just thinking about it can make me feel that way ... dunno, stuff. (((angerpie))) Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 ooooooooooooo am angry been beating head instead of hugging tho grrrrrrrrr why did hugging not even enter my mind cant even think of it just angry no hugs, just dont come just anger ed thanks roses, still keep seeing prat!!!! obv looking in mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Yeah I do feel like I have been listened to and its wierd how its helped alittle by just writin a few things...I shall start on the letter maybe tonite I dunno cause I know its goin to hurt alot sayin things... No I have no clue what I need really, All I know it that I need someone to listen to me and help me control my angry, my OCD ect the lot but I have to take one thing at a time and not do it all at once...And yeah that is how I feel when they just left me hangin and I have know were else to turn to or anyone... But I didn't like feelin like I am a kid still and I want to be happy, feel happy with in myself, happy being me, but I can't as I do hate myself and hate what has happened to me and I can't get over that till someone will listen to me and help me with whatever I need... I am off to see my doc soon and get my meds as I haven't been on for abit, Which doesn't help and hopefully she will listen to me and work out what we're goin to do about the ex Psychiatrist and see if she can get someone else to see me and I do hope someone will... Hi Dice The bit where you are talking about being happy with yourself, hating yourself, can relate to very much. I know its prolly not very helpful to say, but that for me is the thing that I realise is an ongoing thing, it builds on all these little things, though I feel quite certain that having that person there at first who can help you with what you need is an important starting point. I think everything else grows from there. Its not an easy or straight path, because I know for sure that I have, and still do, get in my own way when it comes to getting what I need. Either I dont know what that is, or somehow I seem to push it away when its within reach ... slowly understanding all of that stuff is another part of the equation. I can also relate to feeling like a kid - and I think for me that has a lot to do with not trusting my feelings, and feeling powerless. As that powerlessness seems to have so much to do with my anger, I feel like as all of these threads come together, so I will feel less like a kid. I do feel some changes in the department already, but like everything else, very very slowly. It does sound like you at least feel like you have a bit of an idea what you want to look for, and what it might feel like when you can have it. Hope all goes well with the psych - maybe if he triggers you and makes you feel angry, it might help to go back to what it is you are needing and feeling, and tell him that? I dont know what he's like, so really only guessing ... Really hope the letter writing is helpful as well Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 hoping this is not too off topic - but read dice and ross i shout when i get angry, but only with certain people (USUALLY) or i scream inside never thought of seperateing the anger and the behaviour tricky one although i must be able to do it since i seem to do an awful lot of screaming inside my head ooo damn thoughts and words not matching still interesting anyway - got told off for shouting - ALWAYS Hi walker Yes the separation of the two is something that I only realised kind of last week. It makes sense, because the reaction comes so close to the feeling, it all arrives in this big blob. So it makes sense that we might feel the feeling is the same as the action. The complication is all those other feelings in the background that we are only vaguely aware of - the feeling of shame over our anger, the feeling of anxiety that we will be punished for it, and possibly our own angry reaction against that punishment! Its clear that with all that going on, its no wonder we break up Ross another important thing about seprating anger/behaviour is when comminucating it to seperate to the other person that it is their behaviour that is making you angry, not them as a person, it helps feelings to be heard more effectively, if it is a person who is willing to listen im am going to be puttin this into practice next meeting i get with my manager! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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