Hep Needed In How To Deal With Adult Daughter's Depression

[Dxb]

I need help. My adult daughter has been diagnosed with depression (dont know what kind) and she will not confide in me. i live in another country and when I heard about the problem I went to see her. She totaly rejected me despite the fact that we were always so very close. I dont know whether her rejection is due to her illness or whether she really feels the way she says about me. I want to help her but dont know how. I want someone to tell me what i should be doing. Should I just let her be or should I try to get inside her???? She seems to be making decisions now that are contrary to what she should, like moving to another city and to a new job and this is stressfull for anyone let alone someone who is suffering from depression. She does not seem to want my help or is this just her illness. Should I simply ignore that and "take over'. She is 27 so I cant just tell her what to do but I cant stand back and allow her to make mistakes because she cant think straight??? If anyone has advice I would appreciate it.

[sanctuary]

That's a biggie that one....

I can't really offer any practical advice because I do not have any dependants and find it hard just coping with myself. Are there any close friends of hers that you could talk to to get a better picture of what is going on around your daughter?

[Dxb]

That's a biggie that one....

I can't really offer any practical advice because I do not have any dependants and find it hard just coping with myself. Are there any close friends of hers that you could talk to to get a better picture of what is going on around your daughter?

Thank you so much for just taking the time to respond. Yes she has one good friend who tries to keep me informed but is torn between breaking a confidence and trying to do what is right. I have spoken to this friend and she agrees that this decision is being made hastily and goes against my daughter's character.

I wonder if there is anyone on this site who might have any medical knowledge to help me know what the best thing to do is. I feel that I just cant sit back and let her make this big mistake without at least trying to talk about it. RIght now my daughter sees my advice as "interference".

Thank you again for taking the time...

[Shelley]

Well, first I would say 'talk' 'listen' and be there for her, but don't take control, she will reject it anyway, and as harsh as this may sound, it may well be that she needs to take that train crash ride in order to realise she needs help. You know?

Hope that helps, as difficult as that may be. Sorry.

Anna xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

I dont know whether her rejection is due to her illness or whether she really feels the way she says about me

Hi there dxb

I am going to make a suggestion, which may be completely off the mark. I make it only because it is SO common a damaging dynamic in parent / child relations that it would be amiss not to point it out, and I am not making any assumptions or judgements about you.

Its important to pay attention to what shes saying about you. Depression does not make you imagine things. Feeling are feelings, whether other people agree on the rational facts they may spring from. Quite often in parent /child issues theres a dynamic of "Im the parent, you are the child - therefore you are remembering it all wrong. I was always fantastic to you - it was just your fault for being sensitive / aggressive / diffult to get close to". Unfortunately contesting the facts doesnt change the feelings, but for a child the need to be loved can send the feelings underground for many years as the child tries desperately to belive in the words and NOT her feelings. As they get older, depression can come out, and quite possibly a lot of anger if the child has always felt that her feelings have been dealt with in this way. Commonly the thorniest issue is when the child is criticising the parent or angry at them, and the parent will take affront. This is the point where empathy can tend to break down, and the conversation may turn 'invalidating' - eg "you are too sensitive / you are over-reacting / how dare you talk to me like that / after all ive sacrificed for you / you ungrateful so and so" etc. This is a dynamic that can lead to long pent up rage, but which cannot be easily expressed because the child just expects the same age old response, and on top of that is so unsure of her feelings having been told again and again that she was over-reacting or getting it wrong. This confusion can lead to the sense of "I am so angry with you, and it hurts me, but theres nothing I can do, nothing I can change - so I just need to get away from you".

The same dynamic can even arise from a parent that only focuses on solutions, or makes problems and feelings seem easier to overcome than they are. The key is whether the parent allows the child to HAVE feelings, and express them. Providing a solution or saying how easy that is to correct, makes the childs feelings seem ridiculous or unreal. There is then the added confusion of "why are you getting so angry at me? I was only trying to help", with the parent not realising that the child mainly needed to express feelings - not be given advice. There is a sense that the parent does not appreciate or respect the inner emotional experience of the child. They may feel "its just childrens emotions, they cant be truly that bad".

With some parents, it can be difficult to know when they are doing this - but the clue will be when they are feeling affronted, being critical back or feeling defensive / upset, or when they think that the problem or feeling is simple or trivial. The same problem of not being able to listen objectively and empathically - because the childs critical words spark off the same sensitivity in the parent - blinds the parent to the ongoing invalidation they may be carrying out.

Be open to her feelings and your own, and the dynamic with your daughter. It may be difficult to get past the upset of the feeling of being 'blamed'. If so it may be helpful to know that criticism and confrontation in this kind of situation are actually an attempt to RECONCILE - not to demean or punish. This may help you if this is the pattern that has caused you daughter to feel angry. Try not to look at the facts of the past as you see them, but try to be more focused on what she actually feels, no matter how much it may hurt or sound outrageous. Even if its wrong in actual fact, you will not reconcile with your daughter until you give her permission to feel. Look for phrases like "you never listen / you dont understand me". Try to avoid the urge to contradict that if it comes up. It can be extra hard if this kind of conversation raises feelings of anger, deprivation, sadness, resentment or past hurts and your own possible life long feelings of the same. If its true that you have both been hurting for a long time, then try not to make it a battle of who owes what to whom, or who is the most hard done by. She needs your support as a mother, and if its that she feels was missing then telling her how tough things are for you too will explode in your face. She may become your confidant much later on, but right now the need will be going only in one direction because of the possible chronic nature of what may have been felt to be missing.

As I say, this may not be the issue at all, and Im sure there is input from dad and family members too to factor in. Its just too big a one to not mention.

Ross

[Dxb]

I dont know whether her rejection is due to her illness or whether she really feels the way she says about me

Hi there dxb

I am going to make a suggestion, which may be completely off the mark. I make it only because it is SO common a damaging dynamic in parent / child relations that it would be amiss not to point it out, and I am not making any assumptions or judgements about you.

Its important to pay attention to what shes saying about you. Depression does not make you imagine things. Feeling are feelings, whether other people agree on the rational facts they may spring from. Quite often in parent /child issues theres a dynamic of "Im the parent, you are the child - therefore you are remembering it all wrong. I was always fantastic to you - it was just your fault for being sensitive / aggressive / diffult to get close to". Unfortunately contesting the facts doesnt change the feelings, but for a child the need to be loved can send the feelings underground for many years as the child tries desperately to belive in the words and NOT her feelings. As they get older, depression can come out, and quite possibly a lot of anger if the child has always felt that her feelings have been dealt with in this way. Commonly the thorniest issue is when the child is criticising the parent or angry at them, and the parent will take affront. This is the point where empathy can tend to break down, and the conversation may turn 'invalidating' - eg "you are too sensitive / you are over-reacting / how dare you talk to me like that / after all ive sacrificed for you / you ungrateful so and so" etc. This is a dynamic that can lead to long pent up rage, but which cannot be easily expressed because the child just expects the same age old response, and on top of that is so unsure of her feelings having been told again and again that she was over-reacting or getting it wrong. This confusion can lead to the sense of "I am so angry with you, and it hurts me, but theres nothing I can do, nothing I can change - so I just need to get away from you".

The same dynamic can even arise from a parent that only focuses on solutions, or makes problems and feelings seem easier to overcome than they are. The key is whether the parent allows the child to HAVE feelings, and express them. Providing a solution or saying how easy that is to correct, makes the childs feelings seem ridiculous or unreal. There is then the added confusion of "why are you getting so angry at me? I was only trying to help", with the parent not realising that the child mainly needed to express feelings - not be given advice. There is a sense that the parent does not appreciate or respect the inner emotional experience of the child. They may feel "its just childrens emotions, they cant be truly that bad".

With some parents, it can be difficult to know when they are doing this - but the clue will be when they are feeling affronted, being critical back or feeling defensive / upset, or when they think that the problem or feeling is simple or trivial. The same problem of not being able to listen objectively and empathically - because the childs critical words spark off the same sensitivity in the parent - blinds the parent to the ongoing invalidation they may be carrying out.

Be open to her feelings and your own, and the dynamic with your daughter. It may be difficult to get past the upset of the feeling of being 'blamed'. If so it may be helpful to know that criticism and confrontation in this kind of situation are actually an attempt to RECONCILE - not to demean or punish. This may help you if this is the pattern that has caused you daughter to feel angry. Try not to look at the facts of the past as you see them, but try to be more focused on what she actually feels, no matter how much it may hurt or sound outrageous. Even if its wrong in actual fact, you will not reconcile with your daughter until you give her permission to feel. Look for phrases like "you never listen / you dont understand me". Try to avoid the urge to contradict that if it comes up. It can be extra hard if this kind of conversation raises feelings of anger, deprivation, sadness, resentment or past hurts and your own possible life long feelings of the same. If its true that you have both been hurting for a long time, then try not to make it a battle of who owes what to whom, or who is the most hard done by. She needs your support as a mother, and if its that she feels was missing then telling her how tough things are for you too will explode in your face. She may become your confidant much later on, but right now the need will be going only in one direction because of the possible chronic nature of what may have been felt to be missing.

As I say, this may not be the issue at all, and Im sure there is input from dad and family members too to factor in. Its just too big a one to not mention.

Ross

[Dxb]

Ross

I am so grateful to you for your reply. Whilst some of your thoughts are very relevant, some are a little off. However i do feel that you can help me and therefore I am going to give you some more information.

I have always had a wonderful relationship with my daughter and the problems were always with her Dad. He was not a very loving person, was distant and they had no real relationship. He cheated on me for many years and then worked away from home for a number of years, just visiting for a couple of weeks a year. my daughter and I were happy on our own. I did think of divorcing him many times but always held back as I thought I could not cope (financially) on my own and always wanted my daughter to have everything that I did not. I figured I lasted that long that I could carry on. Anyway to make this story short(er) my daughter decided to move to another city and branch out on her own once she finished college. I was then alone in my home and paying rent for her and decided that it might be better if I sold my home and bought a place in the city she lives in. She lives in that apartment and I then decided to go live with my husband as it was clear that my daughter wanted (and needed to) be on her own. There was no problem with this. However from the time I left to live here she never seemed to really settle down. I went to stay with her twice a year but she seemed to resent me being there. Nothing was ever said but it was just a feeling I got. When she came to stay with us, there was never a problem and she always enjoyed her hols. The problem seems to be that she does not want me in her space????? Anyway nothing was ever said and we never ever fought over this, in fact it was never mentioned by either of us. She is always looking for someone to love her and seems to go overboard when she finds someone, so much so that she smoothers them with love and they leave. She knows she is loved by me but I think she feels she does not have her father's love. This is partly true in that he is a cold person and cannot express his feelings (other than anger). He used to drink a lot but is ok in that respect now. This year it all seemed to come to a head when she got involved with "the wrong person". Her friends told her and I could see it from 10,000 miles away. I tried to speak with her and get her to open up to me and she did from time to time and always agreed that he was no good and then promptly went back to him. She told me that she only knows what I taught her (I presume she means me staying with an abusive cheating man). I told her that as an adult, if she knows that this decision was wrong, then she should not choose to walk down the same path. I managed to get her to agree to start seeing a counsellor and this seemed to help her. this guy then started cheating on her and she always feels that she is worthless and that it is her fault etc. I always tell her that she is a beautiful human being, caring, loving and above all worthwhile. My only fault is that perhaps I love her too much. I always was there and stepped in to solve problems and make things right for her.. Anyway she reached a real low and swallowed pills and alcohol, called her friend to come get her (immediately) and within a few hours she was treated at the hosp and an appt made with a therapist. Her friend (whom she called) told me and her father and me got on the next flight to be with her and to help in whatever way we could. she did not want us to come but agreed later that she and her dad needed to talk. We arrived the next morning and she would not speak to us or let us in. We checked into our hotel and I came to see her the next day and she let me in but did not speak. After a week, she seemed to get a little better with medication and therapy. My husband was leaving to go back to work and I wanted to rent a place nearby and stay a little longer, just in case she needed me. This suggestion was met with anger and she said i was interfering in her life. So I left with a very heavy heart. She told me that she does not "belong" to me and that I should treat her like an adult relative. Since then she has gradually come back to herself but the bond is clearly bent. I have made a blanket apology to her for whatever she thinks I may have done and told her that everything I did was out of love for her and that no harm was intended. I still do not understand why she is angry with me and I guess that is what my main problem is. If I knew perhaps we could sit and talk or go to her therapist and try to work it out? She is now "running away" to another city which would be traumatic for anyone? I tried to talk to her about it and weigh up the pros and cons etc but she said she does not want to discuss it and will give me her new address when she moves if I do not stop giving my opinion. All her friends think she is looking for instant gratification and that she will regret this move. All I want to do is help my daughter, not interfere or tell her what to do but feel strongly that I cant stand back and watch her make such a big mistake. Can you please let me have some of your wisdom based on what I have now told you.

I really appreciate your taking the time to talk to me.

Marianne

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Marianne

Again I am going to just try to tell you what I know from experience and from reading. This is all the most common stuff and so a good place to start. If you are feeling offended or defensive then I am sorry, I really just want to share information with you as opposed to make any value judgements.

Its really very very hard to help in a situation like this. Its going to be very difficult to suggest things without upsetting you, and what you have ahead of you is the necessity to really ask yourself hard questions as well as of your daughter. You have been the wife of an alcoholic, who sounds as though he had an abusive nature. It is very difficult to place the source of damage only with the alcohlic in families like this - families are systems. In families of alcoholics, a dynamic called "co-dependency" can arise, which is characterised by many thick layers of defensiveness and denial. It may be better to read up on co-dependency and see if anything rings a bell for you. Another term worth looking up is AcoA - Adult Children of Alcohlics.

A common accusation of AcoA's against the non-alcoholic parent is that they failed to protect them from the abusive parent - this may be a feature with your daughter. It sounds as though she feels you are somehow 'taking' from her, and that may reflect the common AcoA issue of the non-alcoholic parent turning to the child to meet the emotional needs left unsatisfied by the alcoholic parent. This 'reverse parentification' can feel like a very claustrophobic, invasive form of love, almost over-controlling, but seem to others to just be a devoted parent. Only the child can know what it actually is doing inside. The source of this can be that the parent's self esteem rests on whether she feels needed / useful, as a mother, by the child and so may force mothering behaviours that are not wanted in order to get that sense of being needed. Although she is doing things FOR the child, it can feel to the child like its being done to satisfy something in the parent. When the child rejects the behaviour out of a sense of being used or controlled, the parent may get upset and see the child as selfish. This kind of dynamic is extremely difficult to resolve.

I dont really want to say too much more because I feel like this is the work of a relationship therapist to do - you are going to have your own very strong views of what happened and is happening, and your daughter is going to have another. Finding the middle ground is not something thats going to happen over an internet forum.

If your daughter were here, I would be asking her if she has started any form of therapy, and to especially find a therapist who has experiecne with working with children of alcoholics. It may be that her experiecne has so damaged her trust in others, and their ability / sincerity to help, that she will not go to a therapist. That presents a difficult situation that may take some years to resolve - time which you may need to grant her. It may even be that emotional exploration or therapy for yourself may be helpful - so often we see the same patterns coming out in children as the parents themselves went through, and once those issues are worked through, suddenly the situation with a child can just resolve itself.

Ross

[hummm_mabbe]

Just an addition

Her tendency to choose men who are bad for her is a very common result of having an abusive parent. The strange mix of love AND abuse can leave a person who cannot feel they are loved without being abused. Love that lacks that quality may not even register as love at all. To suggest that they should find someone nice is like asking them to give up ever feeling loved.

I know it sounds bizarre and completely illogical, but emotions in this situation do not operate in a logical way. They are more like a palette of colours - the person is trying to recreate the shades they are used to rather than pick out what others would see as pleasant.

[Dxb]

Ross

You are helping me more than anyone else has in the last six months. You are not critical and for the first time I am in touch with someone will tell me the truth. I want to help and if taking 20 steps back is what that entails, then I will do so. I just could not find anyone to tell me what the best thing to do to help my daughter is. I can see now that what you said is correct about enabling etc and yes I am guilty of that, my reasons might have been pure but in hindsight I can see that perhaps it was the wrong thing to do. I wish y daughter would talk to me so that we could work through things. She is seeing a therapist and is on an SSRI. She is working and has an extremely stressful job which she handles very well. Can you please guide me on what you think is the thing to do now. I am emailing her once in a while at her request, only calling her when she asks me to etc etc. I tried to find info online but was not sucessful - perhaps I am not looking in the right direction. I feel that if we could talk, then i would get more insight into what the problems are but I can see now that she does blame me for not protecting her from all this. However at the time i could not see this. I can take responsibility for some of her problems, but also want to help in any way I can. You seem to be so very knowledgeable and I value your input. I realise this is a complicated situation and you can only guide me. You have helped me see things I could not before and I am grateful. Both my husband and I are going to stay in a hotel near her for Christmas. I usually go on my own but this year she asked if her father was coming. I took this to mean she perhaps wanted him to and we decided to go. Shorter time and we will stay in a hotel. She is planning events for us to do together and I take this as a good sign. I agree with you that I need to sort through these things for myself and I guess I need to heal myself in order to be of use to her. Please do keep in touch, as I greatly value your input. You are making things easier for me to think about.

I am open to criticism or whatever you have to give as in the end, I want things to be ok.

Marianne

[anastasia]

the worst thing i find is when people smother me with "are you ok?" then "are you sure?" "Is there anything we can do to make you feel better?" "well perhaps if you went out you'd feel better" honestly, it doesn't help. finding the motivation to do stuff is the hardest

your daughter wants to move, perhaps it's a good thing. perhaps part of her prolem is where she is living and what she is doing at the moment. sometimes a change is the best thing. it doesn't always work but sometimes you just have to try.

give her some space. the more you try and "fix" things the worse it will get. she has to work it out for herself.

[hummm_mabbe]

Ross

You are helping me more than anyone else has in the last six months. You are not critical and for the first time I am in touch with someone will tell me the truth. I want to help and if taking 20 steps back is what that entails, then I will do so. I just could not find anyone to tell me what the best thing to do to help my daughter is. I can see now that what you said is correct about enabling etc and yes I am guilty of that, my reasons might have been pure but in hindsight I can see that perhaps it was the wrong thing to do. I wish y daughter would talk to me so that we could work through things. She is seeing a therapist and is on an SSRI. She is working and has an extremely stressful job which she handles very well. Can you please guide me on what you think is the thing to do now. I am emailing her once in a while at her request, only calling her when she asks me to etc etc. I tried to find info online but was not sucessful - perhaps I am not looking in the right direction. I feel that if we could talk, then i would get more insight into what the problems are but I can see now that she does blame me for not protecting her from all this. However at the time i could not see this. I can take responsibility for some of her problems, but also want to help in any way I can. You seem to be so very knowledgeable and I value your input. I realise this is a complicated situation and you can only guide me. You have helped me see things I could not before and I am grateful. Both my husband and I are going to stay in a hotel near her for Christmas. I usually go on my own but this year she asked if her father was coming. I took this to mean she perhaps wanted him to and we decided to go. Shorter time and we will stay in a hotel. She is planning events for us to do together and I take this as a good sign. I agree with you that I need to sort through these things for myself and I guess I need to heal myself in order to be of use to her. Please do keep in touch, as I greatly value your input. You are making things easier for me to think about.

I am open to criticism or whatever you have to give as in the end, I want things to be ok.

Marianne

Hi Marianne

I am glad that my words are helping somewhat. I think its great that you have the courage to face this, that will stand you in good stead I think. I dont want to push too far and take responsibility in telling you what to do, because I am an outsider with very little knowledge of the situation, especially your daughters feelings.

The thing that struck me at the moment is that it sounds as though you are experiencing a lot of discomfort, which is perfectly understandable. It sounds like you feel if you could make this reconciliation, or know what to do to make her feel better, then the discomfort would go away. Right at this moment, it may be that its you thats needing the support? If your daughter has said she wants some distance, but your own anxiety keeps making you insist on talking to her to find the solution, then you are going to be in a no win situation. It sounds as though she needs space.

Do you have a ready source of emotional support in the absence of your daughter, such as a friend or members of your family? Is the husband you refer to the same one who was alcoholic, or did you re-marry? If you are still with the same man, its very possible that your own emotional needs have been left chronically unmet. If he is abusive, its possible you may even have lost friends over the years - if so that is very sad. If it were true that you are going to need to just wait until your daughter is ready, then having some support to deal with your own feelings of loss and anxiety is going to be important. Additionally, you may have your own very deep emotional issues around this relationship - ones stemming from your own life as well as the marriage.

In the long run its going to be important that she is allowed to say fully what she is feeling, without feeling restricted or controlled - especially by guilt. The reason this may take time is because so often, feelings have their own timetable. I would avoid emotional appeals, such as telling her how much this hurts you or her father. Try to focus on her feelings, and her needs. Later on if resolution is achieved, a natural balance and two-way flow may be restored, but now is not the time to insist on it. From her point of view there may be a chrinically overdrawn emotional account, with no outgoing funds available! What she will be needing is strength. It may be that you feel you want to throw yourself on your sword, and castigate yourself in front of her for 'being a terrible mother' and almost offer your head for the block. Again, this may backfire - a strong, calm exploration of the truth, with acceptance of mistakes with a view to changing them in the future, may be the best approach. Words alone will act as a temporary patch - its action going on into the future that will really make the difference. Again this may be extremely hard for you if you are still stuck in a situation that is damaging to you at home.

Whilst they are useful terms for research, I would also avoid directly calling her 'codependent' or 'AcoA'. It may sound odd, but right now the most important thing for her will be the truth of her feelings and being allowed to experiecne them. If someone uses a neat technical term, then that can sometimes feel like having your feeling explained away - really its best to use the terms and research as signposts - but the feelings are the reality. I guess what Im saying is, be genuine - technical terms can make you hide behind jargon.

Hope you can find some strong emotional support for yourself too. The words therapy or counselling may be a bit scary at this time, but I wouldnt rule them out, especially if you have had a great deal of struggles yourself over the years. Therapy is not only for the 'sick' - it is for people in ongoing emotional pain with no apparent or simple resolution.

[donnam]

hi, not sure if i will be of much help, i guess i am like ur daughter in the sense that i will not let my parents help. i am scared to let them into my world, because i am scared of their reaction, and that they will blame themselves, and scared of the consequences that my mum would fall of band wagon and start drinking again.they worked out something is wrong but i played it down.

i know they want to help, but the more they push me, the more i withdraw from them, i guess i am trying to protect them too, and i dont want them constantly on the phone asking how i am, and worrying about me. if and when i want to open up, i want to time it right,when i feel comfortable to do it, they dont even know my true diagnosis!or treatment i receive i am very illusive.

sorry prob not much help, but feel free to PM me if think it will help

cadance

[Shellybelly]

hi

ok im no expert i just reaqd your story and your daughter and your situation sounds a bit like what im going thru only for id be your daughter and my mum acts like you do. my dad is also a alcoholic but has it under control kinda at the min. but i have a very low self esteem and my mother and me always had a good relationship till i got sick. now in my situation i know i try and push my mother away cause i blame her for staying with my father. and putting up with his abuse. the fact she is still with him bugs me when to me he is a useless good for nothing. although to my mother he is ok. to me my father does not love me my mother says he does but he doesnt know how to show it and he wont ever say he loves me or show love. yet he can show angry no problem. yet i crave his love and my mother over love annoys me

i get annoyed with my mum cause she ring wants me over tries to come rescue me every time i overdose or self harm or anything i do. i dont want rescueing i want to be able get it wrong and fix it myself. ok it nice in one sense she comes but i want her just to say i love you and leave it up to me to decide how to fix the problem unless i ask for her opionion i DONT WANT IT.

if i could give my mum advise on me i would say to be there by listening to me. tell me she loves me when we do talk but only like saying love you bye or something like that nothing overbearing. if i do something wrong or make a decision she doesnt like and thinks it wrong well leave it let me make it and just be there for me if it does go wrong. dont interfere. if i ask what she thinks then sure tell me the truth but dont say it unless i asked, as for councelling and going with her. well i think for the time been she needs to go alone and sort out her head before she will be ready to have you come with her, i know you say you were a good parent got along and all that its same with my mum but when your daughter tries to talk bout you husband how do you react? do you stand up for him?

sorry if i said the wrong thing that was only my opinion and i wish you luck with your daughter you sound like a loving mother. and remind me of mine. time and space will heal this. just let her know your there for her but wait for her to come to you dont run to her. it will be hard but it will work

shell

[Dxb]

hi

ok im no expert i just reaqd your story and your daughter and your situation sounds a bit like what im going thru only for id be your daughter and my mum acts like you do. my dad is also a alcoholic but has it under control kinda at the min. but i have a very low self esteem and my mother and me always had a good relationship till i got sick. now in my situation i know i try and push my mother away cause i blame her for staying with my father. and putting up with his abuse. the fact she is still with him bugs me when to me he is a useless good for nothing. although to my mother he is ok. to me my father does not love me my mother says he does but he doesnt know how to show it and he wont ever say he loves me or show love. yet he can show angry no problem. yet i crave his love and my mother over love annoys me

i get annoyed with my mum cause she ring wants me over tries to come rescue me every time i overdose or self harm or anything i do. i dont want rescueing i want to be able get it wrong and fix it myself. ok it nice in one sense she comes but i want her just to say i love you and leave it up to me to decide how to fix the problem unless i ask for her opionion i DONT WANT IT.

if i could give my mum advise on me i would say to be there by listening to me. tell me she loves me when we do talk but only like saying love you bye or something like that nothing overbearing. if i do something wrong or make a decision she doesnt like and thinks it wrong well leave it let me make it and just be there for me if it does go wrong. dont interfere. if i ask what she thinks then sure tell me the truth but dont say it unless i asked, as for councelling and going with her. well i think for the time been she needs to go alone and sort out her head before she will be ready to have you come with her, i know you say you were a good parent got along and all that its same with my mum but when your daughter tries to talk bout you husband how do you react? do you stand up for him?

sorry if i said the wrong thing that was only my opinion and i wish you luck with your daughter you sound like a loving mother. and remind me of mine. time and space will heal this. just let her know your there for her but wait for her to come to you dont run to her. it will be hard but it will work

shell

Dear Shell

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I appreciate all input and hope to be able to learn more. I see you asked about me standing up for my husband. Well I never did as our relationship was one of tolerance only. Although he drank heavily for a few years, he was just one of those people who should not drink as he became emotionally abusive and a terribly angry person. I always took my daughter's side and basically tried to exclude him from our lives when he was like that. We basically lived as mother and daughter and he sort of was there in the background. We never had friends over as you never knew what kind of mood he would be in etc. When he was away for those five years (only coming back for a week or two at a time) life was really great. Although that too was a kind of fantasy as no matter how much I would like to go back there, my daughter does not want me that close anymore... I live with her father now but he has mellowed, hardly ever drinks and when he does it is only a couple of beers once a week or so. We sort of get along but there is no love between us, rather a mutual tolerance. I live with him for financial reasons. My daughter lives in our apartment in another country and if I left there would be nowhere for me to go. I cant say I am happy but I can tolerate things as they are. My only concern now is how I can help my daughter. I have never asked her about what happened other than to tell her that I will always be here should she want to talk, will never judge her and will love her always. Last night she called me to ask my advice on her personal life etc, and I was very carefull about what I said. She said she feels happier about things now so that must mean something. I realise however that today could be a different story but feel that if she knows I am there, no matter what, that should help. Thank you again for your help and I would like to hear from you again sometime.

Marianne

[Dxb]

Ross

You are helping me more than anyone else has in the last six months. You are not critical and for the first time I am in touch with someone will tell me the truth. I want to help and if taking 20 steps back is what that entails, then I will do so. I just could not find anyone to tell me what the best thing to do to help my daughter is. I can see now that what you said is correct about enabling etc and yes I am guilty of that, my reasons might have been pure but in hindsight I can see that perhaps it was the wrong thing to do. I wish y daughter would talk to me so that we could work through things. She is seeing a therapist and is on an SSRI. She is working and has an extremely stressful job which she handles very well. Can you please guide me on what you think is the thing to do now. I am emailing her once in a while at her request, only calling her when she asks me to etc etc. I tried to find info online but was not sucessful - perhaps I am not looking in the right direction. I feel that if we could talk, then i would get more insight into what the problems are but I can see now that she does blame me for not protecting her from all this. However at the time i could not see this. I can take responsibility for some of her problems, but also want to help in any way I can. You seem to be so very knowledgeable and I value your input. I realise this is a complicated situation and you can only guide me. You have helped me see things I could not before and I am grateful. Both my husband and I are going to stay in a hotel near her for Christmas. I usually go on my own but this year she asked if her father was coming. I took this to mean she perhaps wanted him to and we decided to go. Shorter time and we will stay in a hotel. She is planning events for us to do together and I take this as a good sign. I agree with you that I need to sort through these things for myself and I guess I need to heal myself in order to be of use to her. Please do keep in touch, as I greatly value your input. You are making things easier for me to think about.

I am open to criticism or whatever you have to give as in the end, I want things to be ok.

Marianne

Hi Marianne

I am glad that my words are helping somewhat. I think its great that you have the courage to face this, that will stand you in good stead I think. I dont want to push too far and take responsibility in telling you what to do, because I am an outsider with very little knowledge of the situation, especially your daughters feelings.

The thing that struck me at the moment is that it sounds as though you are experiencing a lot of discomfort, which is perfectly understandable. It sounds like you feel if you could make this reconciliation, or know what to do to make her feel better, then the discomfort would go away. Right at this moment, it may be that its you thats needing the support? If your daughter has said she wants some distance, but your own anxiety keeps making you insist on talking to her to find the solution, then you are going to be in a no win situation. It sounds as though she needs space.

Do you have a ready source of emotional support in the absence of your daughter, such as a friend or members of your family? Is the husband you refer to the same one who was alcoholic, or did you re-marry? If you are still with the same man, its very possible that your own emotional needs have been left chronically unmet. If he is abusive, its possible you may even have lost friends over the years - if so that is very sad. If it were true that you are going to need to just wait until your daughter is ready, then having some support to deal with your own feelings of loss and anxiety is going to be important. Additionally, you may have your own very deep emotional issues around this relationship - ones stemming from your own life as well as the marriage.

In the long run its going to be important that she is allowed to say fully what she is feeling, without feeling restricted or controlled - especially by guilt. The reason this may take time is because so often, feelings have their own timetable. I would avoid emotional appeals, such as telling her how much this hurts you or her father. Try to focus on her feelings, and her needs. Later on if resolution is achieved, a natural balance and two-way flow may be restored, but now is not the time to insist on it. From her point of view there may be a chrinically overdrawn emotional account, with no outgoing funds available! What she will be needing is strength. It may be that you feel you want to throw yourself on your sword, and castigate yourself in front of her for 'being a terrible mother' and almost offer your head for the block. Again, this may backfire - a strong, calm exploration of the truth, with acceptance of mistakes with a view to changing them in the future, may be the best approach. Words alone will act as a temporary patch - its action going on into the future that will really make the difference. Again this may be extremely hard for you if you are still stuck in a situation that is damaging to you at home.

Whilst they are useful terms for research, I would also avoid directly calling her 'codependent' or 'AcoA'. It may sound odd, but right now the most important thing for her will be the truth of her feelings and being allowed to experiecne them. If someone uses a neat technical term, then that can sometimes feel like having your feeling explained away - really its best to use the terms and research as signposts - but the feelings are the reality. I guess what Im saying is, be genuine - technical terms can make you hide behind jargon.

Hope you can find some strong emotional support for yourself too. The words therapy or counselling may be a bit scary at this time, but I wouldnt rule them out, especially if you have had a great deal of struggles yourself over the years. Therapy is not only for the 'sick' - it is for people in ongoing emotional pain with no apparent or simple resolution.

Hi Ross

I have deliberately taken my time replying to your last post as I wanted to really think on things. I apologise in advance if I seem to be taking up your time but for some strange reason, you seem to be inside my daughter's head, if that makes sense. I so value your input and want you to be honest with me and critical if necessary, as in the end what I want is to try to do the best for my daughter, even if that is nothing!

Yes I am still with her father but over the years things have changed a lot. He used to drink heavily during her teen years and this was very difficult for both of us as he was an "angry drunk". He hardly drinks now and if he does it is only a couple of beers and he does not cause any problems for anyone. I am not in any way condoning his behaviour and I only live with him now for financial reasons. We sort of co-habit but are not husband and wife. We do not fight or argue, simply exist. When our daughter comes here we all have fun and do lots of stuff together.

Last night my daughter called me as she was having difficulty resolving an issue at work and wanted my advice. I just let her see the problem from both points of view and she eventually saw that the problem was actualy an easy one to resolve. She thanked me and said she feels better about this now.

I have never questioned her on what happened or the reasons for it. I have only told her that I am here for her should she ever want to talk, that I will never judge her and will just love her forever. She never replies to my emails anymore unless I ask her a specific question that requires an answer. I usually just email and talk about trivial things, like where I have been and what I am doing etc etc. If I send her a text message however, she replies immediately. I also like to send her little cards of encouragement and have done so all her life. I hope that this is enough or is it too much??

I have thought about seeing someone here myself to help me work through things but am hitting a brick wall. I live in the middle east due to my husband's job and to find a therapist who speaks english and understands the problems is proving to be an insurmountable problem. I therefore want to ask you if I can continue writing to you? I cannot stress enough how much you help me to see things more clearly and in my book, you are a wonderful person and I can't thank you enough for what you are doing

I guess I just want to know now if when we go there for Christmas if I should just "act as normal". I will not ask her anything but if she initiates a conversation then I will participate. However the one thing that bothers me a little is that I seem to have to "walk on eggshells" around her for fear of upsetting her. If I want to say something is it not apropriate to be able to speak my mind ( such as, although I think this move will be difficult, I will nevertheless support you in any way that I can, if that is what you want)???? If your child was going to walk in front of a moving car, surely it would be the right thing to do to help her out of the way??? You see for her career, if she makes this move and it does not work out, she cannot come back to where she was and her life long dream will be lost. She has been offered a place in this institution but if she refuses they will not offer it to her again as there are lots of people trying to get a place. The place she is moving to can offer her the same role so I hope for her sake that she has gone through all the pros and cons (of which there are many) before making any decision...

Thank you

Marianne

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Marianne

I think it would be inappropriate for me to try to direct you any more than I have, and the main reason for this is because I am very much going through a similar situation with my own mother. That may be why I can get inside your daughters head, because I can relate to what she is feeling. The problem however is that I also relate very deeply to the anger, and this for me is a very central issue that Im working through in therapy. For that reason, it would be inappropriate for me to try to direct you becuase of my own projection of feelings. Added to this is my own fear that my own pain and anger will be triggered through trying to help you, and right now that would be very bad for me because I am not at a place of resolution of my feelings with my own mother. I am not saying that you are the same as her by any means, its just that discussing mother /child dynamics in any more depth than relaying unemotionally what I know from books and experience will begin to tread in this territory for me, and an ongoing relationship would undoubtedly go there. I would like to see you happy and find a resolution with your daughter, but I do not feel emotionally equipped to help you do that.

I am not sure what to say about where you are living and its effect on being able to seek the emotional support you need. Is it possible that you are paying for financial security with emotional emptiness?

Ross

[Dxb]

Hi Marianne

I think it would be inappropriate for me to try to direct you any more than I have, and the main reason for this is because I am very much going through a similar situation with my own mother. That may be why I can get inside your daughters head, because I can relate to what she is feeling. The problem however is that I also relate very deeply to the anger, and this for me is a very central issue that Im working through in therapy. For that reason, it would be inappropriate for me to try to direct you becuase of my own projection of feelings. Added to this is my own fear that my own pain and anger will be triggered through trying to help you, and right now that would be very bad for me because I am not at a place of resolution of my feelings with my own mother. I am not saying that you are the same as her by any means, its just that discussing mother /child dynamics in any more depth than relaying unemotionally what I know from books and experience will begin to tread in this territory for me, and an ongoing relationship would undoubtedly go there. I would like to see you happy and find a resolution with your daughter, but I do not feel emotionally equipped to help you do that.

I am not sure what to say about where you are living and its effect on being able to seek the emotional support you need. Is it possible that you are paying for financial security with emotional emptiness?

Ross

Ross

I am so sorry if I have caused you any pain or anxiety. I understand your need to let this go now and I am so grateful to you for putting yourself at risk to help a complete stranger. You have helped me immensely and I will be forever grateful to you for that. Please know that I will be thinking of you and sending you good thoughts from afar.

To answer your fianl question. The answer is yes I am but the reality is that I have no choice as the only place I have to live is the apartment owned by us and occupied by my daughter.

Thanks

Marianne

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Marianne

You are very welcome, and not to worry you havent caused me any anxiety or pain, I guess it was just me trying to be aware of my limits and sticking to them, so that I dont stretch myself to the point where I do feel that way.

If you do feel that sense of emotional emptiness and feel you need people to talk to, then this place is very good for that. Please do not feel that you must be defined here by the nature of your relationship with your daughter. Whilst that is a compledx issue that I personally dont feel qualified to help with, you are still also a person with feelings. If you have thought about therapy for yourself, then i can only presume that you must have some emotional pain too, possibly depression. I hope you will take advantage of the support that this site offers, it may just take the edge off the isolation that you are feeling.

Also Im not saying I never want to reply to your posts again, I like to come here and try to give advice or just validation and understanding if its needed, its just I tend to stick more to the public forums than PMs and things like that. I also like to post silly things like music or pictures of pandas and rabbits, as I love em and they seem to be popular. I hope you will enjoy joinging in with that too

Ross

[Dxb]

Hi Marianne

You are very welcome, and not to worry you havent caused me any anxiety or pain, I guess it was just me trying to be aware of my limits and sticking to them, so that I dont stretch myself to the point where I do feel that way.

If you do feel that sense of emotional emptiness and feel you need people to talk to, then this place is very good for that. Please do not feel that you must be defined here by the nature of your relationship with your daughter. Whilst that is a compledx issue that I personally dont feel qualified to help with, you are still also a person with feelings. If you have thought about therapy for yourself, then i can only presume that you must have some emotional pain too, possibly depression. I hope you will take advantage of the support that this site offers, it may just take the edge off the isolation that you are feeling.

Also Im not saying I never want to reply to your posts again, I like to come here and try to give advice or just validation and understanding if its needed, its just I tend to stick more to the public forums than PMs and things like that. I also like to post silly things like music or pictures of pandas and rabbits, as I love em and they seem to be popular. I hope you will enjoy joinging in with that too

Ross

Hi there

I love pandas and music is always good!

Tonight I sent a short email to my daughter telling her that I know the pain she feels and that it is ok to feel that way. I told her that I am getting help in understanding how all this has affected her. I also told her that I am sorry for being part of the pain....

I feel good now. I feel that I can at last understand how she feels and the way she thinks. I have you to thank for that and I can now see how things might look from her point of view. I am going to do my best to look after myself and my needs and perhaps then I will be in a position to help her, if that is what she wants.

Marianne