Joshua Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I am saddened by recent events that have led to a few members attacking another. This member joined the forum looking for support and whilst some have been supportive, others haven’t just expressed their view but behaved in a way that can only be described as abusive. This man has done nothing wrong but to look for support for his mental illness. He has been open about the problem he has which of course he could have hidden. Please let me remind you the stigma that each of you have faced and just because one person with bpd kills his family or beats his wife it doesn’t mean that everyone with that diagnosis is going to do the same nor does it mean they deserve the same response. Assumptions have been made on the basis this man is a paedophile, this is a term used which means the person is attracted to children. This attraction in shared by a proportion of people who are abused as children as I believe this person has been. For some this is a result of the abuse they suffered as a child and for this I do not feel people should be condemned, the affects of abuse are devastating as many of you know. Please, if you cannot reply to this person without being abusive don’t respond as you will be subject to the intervention of the moderating team in line with the terms of this site. We can all relate to each other on one level or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Totally agree (and no i'm not kissing ass). As i have already told paris, if you don't want to read his posts block him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paris Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 just a question??? or maybe a statement im not sure yet, this member posted saying "im a paedophile" so i dont think im making assumptions inot him being one, he said it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haemoglobin Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 if i am abusive its cause i have bpd :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yes he is one as the label means to be attracted to children. Which he accepts he is but he has no said he abuses children in fact he was looking for support and a therapist in order to deal with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily-Bee Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 ok to maybe help clear something peadophile=atrrackted sexually to kids peadosexual=atrackted sexually to kids AND abuses them So being a peadophile is simply about attraction not crime. Lilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiddi Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Josh, that post of his is a really difficult one to respond to. How do i find support in dealing with the discrimination? Controlling my urges is the last thing i need worry about I want to support him in getting help, but from that quote from his first post this is what is concerning me. My view is that he doesnt want to change, but he does want society to change their views on him. I find the way he plays with words quite difficult to address, and therefore I am unable to support him. Can I also add, that I felt it was right for Paris to make the initial post temporarily invisible - I would have done the same.Its such a difficult subject, and one addressed in an unusual manner that I felt it would be necessary for a mod to make the decision about whether to keep the post or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hi Thanks for your view. I agree with you in regards to paris and actually said so myself in response to her. I do see what your saying and until he feels able to talk to people and respond we wont know for sure but for now no one knows enough to be condeming him as they are. It could be the discrimination causes him more issues as he is able to control his attraction. All of us find ourselves being attracted to someone at one time or another and sometimes towards someone we should like our boss or something so we ignore them etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bena.baby Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 I am conflicted about it too. Josh and Lily, I think your response has been very measured. I find the whole reaction to this really scary and it's made me feel really bad. I can understand the controversy but making a monster of people doesn't help in my view. It actually really saddens me that people can be so vindictive - not just to Joe, but to everyone here. Two nights in a row, I've been slagged off in chat, as have others. That never used to happen and it's just so pointless and unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 by turning him away and calling him a monster-we may have created one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbles Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Josh, thank you so much for being so open minded, understanding and accepting of something and someone different, who has come here asking for support. I'm so saddened and ashamed of the reaction he has received. I understand we can't all agree on everything, and we're entitled to air our beliefs and opinions but to do so in such an abusive manner is disgusting, and extremely upsetting. Thank you also for speaking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barebones Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 good ol word play, thanks for the education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 He has said, several times, that he was NOT sexually abused as a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Not that it makes much difference. He is a time bomb imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0bulat0r Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Because I have nothing supportive to say with regards to that topic I have not made any comment on it, However I find the fact people are giving paris so much shit over this to be a huge issue for me. you all say "if you cant say anything productive and supportive dont bitch and just leave it alone" so why are you all bitching at paris and making her feel like fucking shit? It really ticks me off when people have a rule for others and dont follow it themselves, and dont give me the "she started it by her comments first" SO? if you use that as justification for your abuse towards her then your still just as bad as everyone who has made comments against that post. surely unless you have something NICE and PRODUCTIVE to say to Paris then you should just really STFU as I said before I generally try to avoid arguements that naturally occur on this site we have over 15 thousand members and so we are not all likely to get along and want to hold hands and sings songs and people are going to be at each others throats. I've always only wanted to support people and make that my focus, i've helped where I can and where I cant i've either left well out apologised for feeling unable to help and offered a hug. but now i'm starting to feel whats the point? I'm also starting to feel like I cant post about the things upsetting me and triggering me because i'll open myself up to abuse by people who claim they are here to just support others. I broke my rule over this issue and I didnt stay neutral, I took a side and I'm sorry, For that means disagreeing with a large portion of people on here that I generally trust and respect, But I fail to see how you are all treating Paris over what she said or did fair, respectful or productive. I find it hypercritical and wrong, I turn to this site for peace, for clarity, and this morning it just feels toxic. very triggered right now, For shame. For shame indeed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiddi Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 ok to maybe help clear something peadophile=atrrackted sexually to kids peadosexual=atrackted sexually to kids AND abuses them So being a peadophile is simply about attraction not crime. Lilly Lilly, I understand what you mean about the attraction not being a crime, but even by reading this mans posts, he seems to have a disturbed thought pattern as to what is right or wrong. So, it is a crime to take indecent photos of children, it is a crime to possess photos (which since he quibbles about the technicalities of the law in regard to this, I think he may have such pictures). If I remember rightly it is a crime to possess written fantasies about children, without pictures. Its even a crime to have indecent drawings. If a person frequently 'hangs out' with children, whether in a park, or they invite them to their house, if adults complain - even if nothing has overtly happened - an ASBO can be issued, and they are not allowed to continue that behaviour, if they do, its a crime. All these things can happen, but no abuse takes place. (for this I'm talking about the lower category photos). Their thoughts may not be criminal, but even their slightest of behaviour is. And for that, I am thankful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Not that it makes much difference. He is a time bomb imo. But more likely to be a time bomb if he is driven away and does not get help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 I may not always agree with you Josh, but as I said to my husband last night I trust you and I believe in you and what you are doing for other people. Love Roses xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) i am intentionally staying away from the thread at the centre of this as i know i am already triggered by personal life stuff and so not safe. reading the intial post was bad enough but from reading the other stuff thats going on its pretty obvious i think regardless of what the offical terminology used or techniqual meanings peadophile is a term used within general speak to mean someone who abuses children. saying 'i am a peadophile' is therefore going to create that image of a s/abuser, as in someone who actively abuses children. so i think paris' reaction is perfectly understandable. im not saying that anything breaking rules shdnt be moderated but i think its totally lacking insight to tell anyone that they shd be more understanding under the circumstances, not that others understanding shd be criticsied either i agree that peodphiles shd have help and support to prevent them offending, i am well aware that countries that have programs to support sex offenders leaving prison have much lower reoffending rates than those that ostrsise them, but im not sure this is necessarily the place. i ahev worked with teenage sex offenders, and its not an easy job that i am not particularly good at, despite training, v well qualified and effective colleges, lots of support and being stable at the time myself. so as this is a site of relatively unstabel people (and i mean no offense with that, and include myself in that) and many fragile survivors, is this honestly the most sensible option? and thats not a judgement just a question for consideration two other points i wanted to make that concern me, i have came across plenty of peadophiles who claim they do not 'harm' children and are not 'sex offenders' which ofcourse is alot to do with their own perception and justification of their abusive actions, think of the likes of NAMBLA for example. i am not necessarily applying this to the person at the centre of this here, i have barely read any of this stuff and even if i did i do not see how that would be the same as knowing the facts, but i think that the use of this type of terminology is going to again insite fear in people because of the manipulative and decitful nature of many s/abusers. again not saying the person at the centre of this is a s/abuser, but due to alot of our experiences with abusers the 'not needing help with urges' rings a bell with the above for many who have been victims. also, people can and do change what they are sexually stimualed by. many many victims grow up being conditioned only to only seak out abusive and degrading sex, and yet we can and do retrain ourselves, i have. so dismissing such an idea as not possible is not going to inspire any faith that there is any interest in being responsible for not posing a risk to children. judith herman describes an account by a victim in her book trauma and recovery who talks aout how she could only ever climax if she pictured her father (her s/abuser) face while having sex, however she retrained herself out of this, and many others do also. if those of us who have been victims are expected to be responsible for finding healthier ways to develope positive sexuallity that does not harm ourselves, then those who have urges towards children should also bear equal responsibility to reprogram their attractions (reprogramming of any type generally involves finding the source of the programming and understanding why sucha thing happened in the first place, before taking steps to find ways to reduce the power sucha thing holds over us, i dont specifically know about reprogramming for peadophiles but id imagine it works similar) one final thing, the thread in question really shd have a trigger warning. it cruel and insensitive not too. people can not be expected to be super responsible for what they are triggered by and not be enraged and reply if there is nothing to warn them of a trigger in the title. i apprciate thats not allways possible if the triggers are seemingly normal things (like alot of mine can be) but sucha topic as this is clearly going to cause alot of harm to people if there is nothing to warn them to protect themselves and stay away if not safe if anyone misreads this and wants an excuse to yell at me im not interested paris, and anyone at all hurt by any of this i just want to say i realy feel for you, cause i know how difficult a subject this is, pls take care Edited November 25, 2009 by roxy222 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piuma Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 I still dont know what i think about it. sometimes better the devil you know than the divil you dont. if ya get me. i wouldnt want to judge him and would hope it gets help. i just dont know if i am the one to do that, but that doesnt mean others here cant. i was a bit worried bout the him not wanting to change thing, sadly its locked now so i wont get a response, i was interested to see what he would say. i know some are angry that he can come here, and some of them that are angry are my good friends. i just want you to know, i still support all of you, i just dont feel at ease attacking him myself. sorry. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anastasia Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 dont we all think it's time to move on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharingbody Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 honestly no, rachelw. :mellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 this is a real serious issue, its not necessarily something to just move on from, not that simple apprciate what your saying piumax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
out2lunch Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thanks Josh, I do not pretend to understand the feelings of those who have been abused but I do appreciate that this is a highly sensitive topic for some people and emotions of course will run high, so do not judge others for their reactions. But...as you and others have said, it is right and fair that joe is allowed to be a member here, there were many people who reacted positively to his posts and offered him support, as everyone else here has been offered support. I do take on board those people who would not wantt their posts discussing their abuse to be visible to Joe, but I believe they have an option to block him from reading them? I do think there has been a bit of a daily mail response to this thread, which is very sad as for someone to admit to having feelings that modern society finds obhorrant is a brave thing to do and if more people did so perhaps we would have greater understanding of something we have very little of at present, as the only peadophiles undergoing therapy / treatment etc are phsyical offenders, not people who have what could even be intrusive htoughts but who do not act on them. It may also be worth pointing out that societies attitudes to sex vary grately over history and what is deemed "acceptable" does change. Kazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thanks Josh, I do not pretend to understand the feelings of those who have been abused but I do appreciate that this is a highly sensitive topic for some people and emotions of course will run high, so do not judge others for their reactions. But...as you and others have said, it is right and fair that joe is allowed to be a member here, there were many people who reacted positively to his posts and offered him support, as everyone else here has been offered support. I do take on board those people who would not wantt their posts discussing their abuse to be visible to Joe, but I believe they have an option to block him from reading them? I do think there has been a bit of a daily mail response to this thread, which is very sad as for someone to admit to having feelings that modern society finds obhorrant is a brave thing to do and if more people did so perhaps we would have greater understanding of something we have very little of at present, as the only peadophiles undergoing therapy / treatment etc are phsyical offenders, not people who have what could even be intrusive htoughts but who do not act on them. It may also be worth pointing out that societies attitudes to sex vary grately over history and what is deemed "acceptable" does change. Kazza im alittle confused by what you mean by that last sentance a couple of centarys ago all children were routinely sexually abused before the age of five (see loyde demassey's (psychohistorian) work) however people have realised what horrendous damage this does and so now atleast it is illegal if not uncommon. all the relevant experts agree that child sex abuse is allways v damaging to children and that due to the power imbalance created by their depenancy they are not able to give consent sure peoples attitudes change, and there are case where this is a positive move forward, but acceptig child sex abuse as an acceptable attitude would be a v destructive step backwards im not sure if this is what you are suggesting, im compleatly unsure what you are suggesting, but i dont like the idea of giving peadophiles any more amunition to use for further justification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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