Stuck

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi

With this one I Am feeling that "dont know what to do, and even if I did I cant see how it would accomplish anything at all except cause hassle when none is needed" thing. My sister has emailed me saying she wants to see me over christmas.

When it comes to my anger, my sister and my mum are the two main targets and its taking a long time to even begin to think about how Im going to deal with it. That anger is at the root of my most painful problems, they are the reason I am like this. Of course, I am in therapy trying to take responsibility, deal with my anger and move on, but I am not there yet. These is still a lot of work to do. And so here I am, stuck.

Our family has always been totally distant, alternating with contempt. I know my sister about as well as the postman, or at best someone I once met on holiday. But what I remember is the source of so much of the inner self hatred and invalidation I feel. Her and mum are like a double act in my head, but when we meet its like we have to pretend that we are two different people, from a different life. I have to swallow it all - but now all that dissociation and repression has fallen away, I cant cope with seeing them. Ive got nothing holding back all that anger and hate, and Im suposed to put on the happy christmas face.

This is the reply I drafted to her, I dont know whether to send it or not or what. I didnt see her last christmas, and she vaguley knows something is up and that I dont talk to mum, but the clincher was when I got a personality disorder dx and she just ignored me. I sent her a text telling her, and she said "i have some work to do now, hope it works out". That was last year, and she hasnt messaged me since. She is only emailing me because I sent one to her to see if her address was still valid.

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Hi *****

Thank you for the pictures. I dont think its a good idea I see you, at the moment Dad is the only member of the family I am able to see. I am not sure you, or anyone else for that matter, will be able to understand as no one in our family ever really does, or actually wants to, but seeing you or mum will just be unpleasant for everyone involved. I feel a lot of unresolvable anger at mum and you and I dont want to be fake and pretend everything is fine, because its not. If dad could come over to you that would be preferable, or If you can let dad know when you are coming, I will make sure Im not in at that point.

Ross

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Its like right now, we can all pretend ross isnt angry, or hes 'just ill' and maybe he will get better and then it'll all be fine. Its like I would be pointlessly starting a fight that no one cares about, and no one feels I have any right to feel angry over in the first place. Just shut up, be good and enjoy your christmas.

I dunno, so stuck with this. I feel like I need to shit a mini metro and someone has sewn my bum up. Sorry for the analogy ...

Ross

[hummm_mabbe]

maybe ill get rid of the "or anyone else for that matter, will be able to understand as no one in our family ever really does, or actually wants to" bit, its poitnlessly passive aggressive even though it IS what I feel ... maybe its best to just draw the boundary without getting into anything else.

[hummm_mabbe]

Oh well bugger it, ive sent it with that little alteration.

I decided I needed to set the boundary, and say I could not see her. I need to protect myself, and stop worrying about whether "her christmas will be ruined" or whether anyone else will see what Im doing as stupid. Ive had enough of burying feelings for the sake of keeping the peace - I have to finally grow up and set my own boundaries instead of constantly checking with everyone else if its ok, or worrying if they will attack or criticise me.

[Data]

Do you care about your sister?

I always find its harder to be angry at people you care about. It gets complicated. In me it sets off a spiral of other emotions, e.g. guilt.

I admire your honesty. Too many people pretend, when they feel bad. It just makes things worse.

Take care of yourself over Xmas, Ross.

[Wobbles]

Oooh if my mother had sent me an email asking to see me or my son over xmas, my internal reaction would be similar to yours. Possibly even more extreme and it would definitely ruin a few of my days.

What comes to mind is stuff my T says about child mode and adult mode.

The reaction and course of action I would have taken about a year ago would have been to send an abusive reply, out of my own fears, anger and anxiety. This would be me reverting to my child mode and behaving in a childlike way.

You, Ross, i believe, behaved in a very adult way. You were honest about your feelings, and you made your feelings your priority. You have had fear, but you decided to stop worrying about how she would react to your honesty, you did what was best for YOU, rather than what was best for her.

I can imagine now you're feeling rather angry and anxious, and worried about the repercussions of your response to your sis? I know i would be.

Just wanted to say that i think you did the right thing, and that i think you acted in an adult way rather than in a childlike way.

If you need to explode, i'm here.

And i loved your analogy, cracked me up :)

[hummm_mabbe]

Do you care about your sister?

I always find its harder to be angry at people you care about. It gets complicated. In me it sets off a spiral of other emotions, e.g. guilt.

I admire your honesty. Too many people pretend, when they feel bad. It just makes things worse.

Take care of yourself over Xmas, Ross.

Hi Data

Thats a good question - I dont KNOW my sister. I guess I wanted something that never existed, a real relationship with her. To me she is just like a person I once lived with, almost as though she was a flatmate who hated me and who I felt controlled through guilt by. But underneath that, I wanted a sister. I wanted someone that mattered to me, who loved me I guess (as oddly ashamed as I feel to say that). I guess the rest of the family was so fractured too, it kind of made it even more poignant that it was broken as well. Yes I very much feel guilt, fear at others reactions, the "what are you being so stupid for?" type probing. But ive fought that battle in my head so many times, and I know its not one I can win by rational discourse because that would mean trying to negotiate for the right to have my feelings. All I can really do is set the boundary - this is what I want and why. You are right about pretending - Ive been doing it all my life especially with my sister. It really is the elephant in the room, I hate it. In many ways I am feeling a sense of relief to even have given it a name.

Ta for the thoughts, I think I am going to discover my dads beer supply pretty quickly once I get back down to england ...

Ross

[hummm_mabbe]

Oooh if my mother had sent me an email asking to see me or my son over xmas, my internal reaction would be similar to yours. Possibly even more extreme and it would definitely ruin a few of my days.

What comes to mind is stuff my T says about child mode and adult mode.

The reaction and course of action I would have taken about a year ago would have been to send an abusive reply, out of my own fears, anger and anxiety. This would be me reverting to my child mode and behaving in a childlike way.

You, Ross, i believe, behaved in a very adult way. You were honest about your feelings, and you made your feelings your priority. You have had fear, but you decided to stop worrying about how she would react to your honesty, you did what was best for YOU, rather than what was best for her.

I can imagine now you're feeling rather angry and anxious, and worried about the repercussions of your response to your sis? I know i would be.

Just wanted to say that i think you did the right thing, and that i think you acted in an adult way rather than in a childlike way.

If you need to explode, i'm here.

And i loved your analogy, cracked me up

Hi Wobbles

Thank you for that, it made me feel a good deal better. Yes you are right,I feel a sense of anxiety defo. The anger went flat shortly after I had drafted the email - I dont know if thats because I said something I needed to say, or if its detachment before some expected storm. I dont know, its sort of derailed me. Expressing the anger seems to have made it go flat, and now I feel a bit like ive started something I have no stomach for, but I guess I know what I wanted to do, and that was draw the boundary. I dont need to explain or unload all the backlog of stuff, its enough to just say what I need.

Im glad you thought it was adult, I guess mum is the only one I am likely to explode at. With sister its like dealing with someone you were once freely able to be enraged at, but something happened and you were expected to be 'civil' to them. Its like I feel this relationship SHOULD matter, but I know it doesnt to her. In some way it feels like getting angry at a schoolteacher who you felt spurned your need for a significant relationship, but who herself felt no obligation or requirement to show you any preference or support and that somehow your feelings would come as a shock and a surprise, and then feel angry and put upon. Its like it seems a bizarre notion that I should even CARE - but yet I clearly do. Unpicking where the anger stops at the 'need' begins, if indeed there is one, is very difficult.

I guess right now I am feeling a bit detached.

Ross

[Villan]

do what u need to do to keep yourself safe...

[Wobbles]

Ross,

My first thought is that you're blocking your anger, and possibly other emotions, but i only say that because that's what i would be trying to do in your shoes right now.

And i know exactly what you mean about feelings towards and about your sister.

What if she was to respond saying something along the lines of 'Ross, i'm really sorry you don't want to see me. I'd love to see you and spend time with you, i'd love to get to know you as an adult, i miss you and hope we can have a relationship some day'?

I know it's highly unlikely, but it seems to be the opposite of what you'd expect, so i just wondered how you'd feel if that was the type of response you received?

How would you feel if she actually did show she cared, or at least wanted to?

xx

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi wobbles

You were right about blocking, I just tried to go to bed and a shit load of rage starting coming up, getting that 'blocked' stomach ache feeling. Couldnt figure out whether to sit up, lay down, walk around - couldnt feel comfy no matter how I sat. I guess Im realising how raw this all is, and how important. Although Ive covered a lot of this in therapy, and in my own time, there is nothing like really being FACED with these things to kick off all those old feelings and reactions.

I really dont know how I would feel if she reacted that way. To be honest, she does act nice. But it just feels so fake - it cannot be real because there was nothing to ever base a relationship on. We just got to a certain age and seemed to make a pact that we wouldnt express our hate for one another "because it upset mum". It just became fake, and the few times we saw each other we would pretend, and I would find myself detaching and getting depressed to cope with the feelings. It would take weeks to go back to normal. So if she said she wanted a relationship, I dont know what I would feel. To get there it would mean going through all of the anger, and that means risking the invalidation and dismissal all over again. If she makes a positive overture, I will think about it then, but for now I just want to stick to that boundary and police it like hell.

Ross

[jillv]

Hi Ross,

I really appreciated your insight into this subject of mother and sister versus you. I have similar feelings towards my mother and sister, although the circumstances are very different. They are like a double together, and I feel ganged up on and belittled by them. When we are together I revert to child mode. I become aggressive, stroppy, willful, embarressed and many other emotions. For many months I have had very limited contact with either of them. People have tried to make me feel guilty or ashamed for my lack of contact, and I know my mother doesn't understand it and is upset by it. But I know I feel safer emotionally this way.

I don't think I would have had the courage to act as you did, but I absolutely agree it was the right thing to do, for you. You were right to set your boundaries, even if you are now a bit worried about the consequences.

In my own case I need to explore why I feel so angry towards them, and why I revert to child-like bahaviour even when I think about them.

Kalico x

[successful_workthru]

"Dont know what to do" is a horrible feeling. Not seeing options to move forward in a positive way.

Familys anger us but the anger is ours to own. (hope that dont sound too bad) If you communicate with your sister, ensure you are not pointing the finger, even if you feel she deserves it. Communicate your feelings with ownership of them.

My mum and sister anger me too, they ganged up on me and I feel bitter, but that is my bitterness. They didn't know what they were doing. When people do hurtful things to others, it is about their pain, pain they may not be strong enough, or aware enough to acknowledge. It's hard to see that from our standoint as the recipient of their acts, but when we realise its not personal, (even if they were being personal about it) it gets a bit easier.

Maybe discuss the above with your theraist?

It sounds like you cannot be yourself with your family. You dont have to see your sister if you dont want to.

Thank you for the pictures. I dont think its a good idea I see you, at the moment Dad is the only member of the family I am able to see. I am not sure you, or anyone else for that matter, will be able to understand as no one in our family ever really does, or actually wants to, but seeing you or mum will just be unpleasant for everyone involved. I feel a lot of unresolvable anger at mum and you and I dont want to be fake and pretend everything is fine, because its not. If dad could come over to you that would be preferable, or If you can let dad know when you are coming, I will make sure Im not in at that point.

Ross

I can't advise or comment on what you write to your sister, but If it were me, I would direct the whole email towards your feelings.

For instance, when my aunty asked me in a letter, about why me and my folks were estranged, I never told aunty what they did, I just focused on my feelings about our relationship and wrote that down.

In another letter to her, I wrote that I didnt feel strong enough to communicate with them at this time. That way, I was owning my feelings, yet getting my point across that I was unhappy with the relationship.

I think Christmas is a time when many people put on a mask. I'm alone at Christmas, which is sad, but I cheer myself up by thinking about all of the rows and awkwardness that Christmas get together's bring.

LOL @

shit a mini metro and someone has sewn my bum up.

don't be sorry for the analogy ...

While the "or anyone else for that matter, will be able to understand as no one in our family ever really does, or actually wants to" is what you feel, you could just word it so it comes across as your feelings, and no passive agressiveness. (not criticising you)

Your relationships with your sister sounds like mine.

Your posts are very articulate and maybe they have been cathartic.

"because it upset mum" was the reason our family kept a fake exterior. I also understand the bad taste after seeing our family, and it lasting so long.

I wish you all the luck in the world. I have not yet had to face my family, but your posts struck so many chords with me.

I once read that when we face our family, we feel we have reverted back to childhood. We are now adult and the adult us can speak for the child side of us.

I wish you the best of luck, because I haven't yet had the guts to face my family yet. p.s. - I dub my mum and sister as "the two headed monster"

[hummm_mabbe]

TRIGGER - may trigger

Hi Guys

Well she replied, and I have sent a response. It has been very illuminating, and suddenly I feel entirely justified in everything I have said up to this point. Here is her reply:

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I'm really sorry you feel that way but as it goes I am pretty angry with you too. You think you have some right to go around telling people exactly what is going through your mind at any one time and crushing them, probably because your therapist says it is OK. You think it is OK to accuse people of letting you down without stopping to think what you may have ever done to them at times. Well people let you down it is the nature of life, you forgive and get on with it or let it eat away at you. I have tried to be understanding and be there for you and at times and make excuses for you because you are ill, but I cannot understand your hatred disguised as anger because of your 'tramatic childhood' - don't forget I was there too!

You are just being rude. You are self absorbed you live your life through your therapist and books and I don't think you see the woods for the trees. Yes our parents weren't perfect, but let me tell you, if you tried it you would know that being a parent is the hardest job in the world and there are a lot worse out there than ours. I am sorry it has come to this but I have tried to remain impartial and I understand your issues with Mum because as I said I was there too but Dad wasn't perfect either and when it comes down to it you can have your distance without being hateful to us.

I will always love you unconditionally because you are my brother, but I don't know the person you have become. I am worried about your therapist, you have got progressively worse since you have been seeing her.

When it comes down to it the only person that can help you is you (even though everyone else would if they could).

***** X

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Pretty much everything she has said is an echo of what mum says, word for word. Will post my response in next reply

Ross

[hummm_mabbe]

My reply:

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******

Im sorry you feel that way. Family members of people with mental health problems often feel this way too. A lot of your reactions about therapy are very common as well, so Im sure you will find many people who agree with you. But at the moment I am acting according to what I need to do in order to recover, and I am indeed recovering. Just not enough to feel able to see you, especially when I suspected underneath, this is how you may feel. In a way, Im glad to see that my honesty brought these feelings out in you, and that you felt able to express them.

I didnt feel I attacked you in any way in my first email, I told you I was angry and didnt want to see you. So I feel sad that you felt the need to attack and criticise. In a way your reaction does at least confirm the feelings I have about you. At least now we can stop covering it up and pretending, which is a relief. I had wondered if you might be a person I could talk to in the future, as I remember how much anger you used to have for mum, and the huge rows you had. I know you had a falling out not so long ago, and that mum told me she felt she "might lose you" and there were lots of discussions. At the time, it seemed you had some very real, deep emotions which were validated and heard when mum came to see you. I felt there must have been quite some real feeling on your behalf and did feel empathic and concerned for you, though did not feel able to say this to you. Maybe this lead to your sense of resolution with you and mum, I hope so. Maybe you now feel it was just nothing, a flash in the pan or mum "being melodramatic", I dont know. At the time it seemed you were hurting.

Its interesting because the therapy I am having, leads me to recognise the ways I feel about mum, that you used to express very loudly and angrily, even up into your 20's. Perhaps its true that you dealt with it in your own way, I know you had things like reiki and your psychic work that seemed helpful at the time. Its true that they did not make you angry at mum or another family member, perhaps this was a relief at not having to 'go there', or you simply dont have those feelings, Im not sure and its certainly a blessing if you dont have them. In my early therapies, such as CBT, I was pleased I didnt have to look there either - this therapy pretty much ignored the family links. But after 3 years of it failing, it emerged that there was a lot more to what I was feeling. My current therapy is only a way for me to finally get those feelings out. Perhaps you genuinely feel there is nothing to be gained by looking to the past, or the elements of the past that are still intact in the present. Its sadly true for me that these feelings have always been there, and therapy is only helping me recover from them, as opposed to creating something that is not there. Dad has sat and listened to my feelings, and felt able to react with some understanding instead of attack and defensiveness, but you must say what you feel. Perhaps this has been a good opportunity for both of us.

Im sad that you see therapy as making me worse, I think it is making some fundamental changes and helping me overcome a serious mental illness. You do have some experience with ADHD and OCD, I see you like to talk about that. I have a personality disorder, which is something different and sadly, yes all the research shows that personality disorders of the type I have, have their roots in family experience. Maybe you think that my illness itself has made me imagine all of this? I hope not, that is an attitude that went out with the dark ages, but it is a convenient one for someone who wants to shut down another persons feelings, especially if they are upsetting or they do not agree with them.

Not that this incident alone is the central reason I feel angry at you, but as you mention it I feel I want to say this. I wish it were true that you have expressed concern for me over my illness directly to me, I actually feel the opposite is true. When I texted you to tell you I had been diagnosed with personality disorder over a year ago, you told me you had some marking to do and you hoped I got better. Then I didnt hear from you again, and that text was before mum and I fell out. Maybe you were busy, or suffering yourself - if so, I hope things are better for you now, they do seem to be and that is good. But I find it hard to accept your claim that you have been worried about me or there for me, because I think if that were true you might have taken some interest in what that diagnosis meant, and how serious it was, or at least asked how therapy was going beyond talking to mum and her views on what therapy might be doing to me.

You are right that you had a presence in my past - but its also true that you are not me. When I got angry at mum, I made it clear that I needed to get this anger out, because I wanted to repair the relationship - not to blame or fix her indelibly as the 'aggressor'. Blaming, whether you belive it or not, is not the aim of therapy - getting out the long stuffed-away feelings that underlie mental illness is, and that may involve getting angry with certain people. Their reaction is a very good indicator of whether your feelings are right. I feel you have a very real need to shut down, belittle, criticise and attack what I feel and think, that you see this as an effective way of dealing with conflict, and that you have an inability to empathise with feelings when you do not share them or feel criticised. I feel you can be extremely invalidating and overly critical. Sadly this is how I have frequently felt about you and it is one of the main reasons I am angry at you. I wouldnt imagine that I know your feelings on things and try to dismiss them or tell you what you should feel and think - but with you, you seem to see this as a right. I feel you are more concerned with having the upper hand and preserving the status quo than genuinely listening to what I feel and think, and you do this by rubbishing my feelings by denying their validity, or by directly attacking me as a person such that what I think cannot possibly be real. Now that I can see this, I no longer feel I have to justify myself to you. I cant help but feel taken aback by your claim of unconditional love, because you do not seem to show evidence of it in your actions, especially given the evidence in your email. You may feel that the words alone are enough, I feel very differently. I am also a bit taken aback by your saying you dont know me anymore - you never actually did know me. If you like, right now you are seeing the real me. It seems you really do not like it, which must be hard for you. I can see why you might want to rage and put me back where you can recognise me.

Many people do not want to face scary inner parts of themselves, and that is understandable. They are frightening and they cause disruption, especially at christmas when people are meant to be happy. They cause those same people you may already be angry with to get even angrier. I know in our family, anger is seen as something wrong and bad, especially if expressed at mum or dad who could be very fragile or even frightening, and we should ignore it and get on with life. Pretending and avoiding is how we always tended to cope. But it was exactly that attitude that lead to my feeling so angry with her. I know you tend to get to a certain point and then snap. For me anger all tends to go inwards, and perhaps now I am finally expressing it after many years of not. This may come as a shock to you, and I can well understand your need to get things back to how they were. That isnt going to happen, and you are free to see me as selfish, conniving or as stuck up as you like.

It does make me sad, but seeing your reaction makes me even more certain that not seeing you right now is the correct thing to do. Perhaps in the future we will have the opportunity for a proper discussion, even if you do not share my views or understand what I feel. However if you feel you cannot get over my critical feelings towards you and mum, and feel so angry at how unjustified or selfish you think they are, then that is to be understood. My anger is directed at certain things you say and do. I do not think you are a bad person, or selfish to the core or any of these things, I do not want to 'defeat' you and make you the villain. But there are ways you behave that I will not tolerate, and as you seem unable to listen right now, my best course of action is to not have contact with you. My hope is that one day you will be able to sit and listen calmly to those feelings and that by getting angry with each other, we might even have some sort of relationship. I understand this isnt possible now.

Ross

[Wobbles]

WOW!!!!

I should really share with you some of the emails that were exchanged between my mother and me. You will see just how similar my mother, your mother and your sister really are. WHen i read your sisters response, it was far too familiar and i'm highly triggered by it. I'm now feeling highly anxious, angry and i'm starting to feel sick.

(You're not responsible for this, so please don't even think about apologising)

So i'm sure you can see that i empathise with you Ross. I was worried you would receive that exact response from your sister, and it brought all the same fears i would be having if it was happening in my own family.

I think you handled it extremely well, and even your reply was so similar to what i've written to my mother, and have never gotten anywhere. It feels like it doesn't matter how much i try and explain, it will never get through, it will never be understand and i'll always just be seen as the sick one who is being brainwashed by a therapist. That i spend too long thinking about myself, with my head buried in therapy books to think about how i might be affecting 'them', that i'm just fucked up.

Unfortunately, and it really saddens me, but i feel the reality now is that you will continue to be invalidated by your sister, and that this has spurred another conflict, another event to anger you and make you feel completely invalidated, and self loathing, anxious and upset, at christmas time.

If that's the case, i'm so sorry.

How are you feeling?

[Wobbles]

Oh and i just love the fucking 'i'll always love you unconditionally' bullshit. These people seem to believe that unconditional love means 'I have to say the words, put the face on, and tell everyone out loud that i love you, but only because i have to, because we're related'.

It doesn't occur to them what unconditional love actually means!!

And i also love how she's not had contact with you for a long time, has said herself she doesn't know you, yet she seems to think there is any validity in the 'i'm worried about your therapist, you have got progressively worse since you've been seeing her'. HOW THE FUCK WOULD SHE KNOW?

And you're right, it's not that you're getting worse, it's that you're changing, you're moving out of the box labelled 'Ross' that she has had you in your whole life, and she doesn't like it. SHe's uncomfortable with it, and reacts with criticism and attacks.

Going to take a deep breath now :)

[hummm_mabbe]

WOW!!!!

I should really share with you some of the emails that were exchanged between my mother and me. You will see just how similar my mother, your mother and your sister really are. WHen i read your sisters response, it was far too familiar and i'm highly triggered by it. I'm now feeling highly anxious, angry and i'm starting to feel sick.

(You're not responsible for this, so please don't even think about apologising)

So i'm sure you can see that i empathise with you Ross. I was worried you would receive that exact response from your sister, and it brought all the same fears i would be having if it was happening in my own family.

I think you handled it extremely well, and even your reply was so similar to what i've written to my mother, and have never gotten anywhere. It feels like it doesn't matter how much i try and explain, it will never get through, it will never be understand and i'll always just be seen as the sick one who is being brainwashed by a therapist. That i spend too long thinking about myself, with my head buried in therapy books to think about how i might be affecting 'them', that i'm just fucked up.

Unfortunately, and it really saddens me, but i feel the reality now is that you will continue to be invalidated by your sister, and that this has spurred another conflict, another event to anger you and make you feel completely invalidated, and self loathing, anxious and upset, at christmas time.

If that's the case, i'm so sorry.

How are you feeling?

Hi Wobbles

You are probably right, but the aim of that email wasnt to convince or make her see. It was only to get out what I felt - I was trying to sandwich my anger between at least some empathy for her feelings and an attempt to seem reasonable, after all its true that one day I would like it if we had a relationship. I wanted to address her criticisms at least once, because its those I permanently hear in my head. Actually saying the directly to her was immensely liberating.

Ultimately the aim was to reinforce the boundary. She now knows why I feel as I do, whether she agrees with it or not. When a person finally stands up for themselves, whether others accept it or not, people have to make some decision on what to do. They can walk away, or they can choose to listen. But what no longer happens is that the person feels controlled and powerless. Focusing on 'convincing' her would have been fruitless, it wasnt what I aimed to do. I know she wont change her mind, and will probably come back with something even more patronising.

My intent is to just acknowlege her views, validate them in as far as "that is what she feels" and then clamly re-affirm that I do not want to see her. That is what drawing a boundary is, but in the past I got confused with boundary setting and trying to get them to like and respect me. She is not going to do that, so she needs to know why the boundary exists and that I fully intend to stick to it. That is assertiveness, and Im actually extremely proud of myself I know the next stage may be my entire family closing ranks - something I am prepared for. If not, then it will be a pleasant surprise. But I am not after reconciliation with my family - I am after boundaries and having respect for myself, something I now feel I have an awful lot more of!

Looks like my trigger warning was a good idea, sounds like it brought up an awful lot of memories!

Ross

[Wobbles]

Yep, i am getting something now. That you didn't write it to convince her, which i think that's what i've tried to do in the past, out of desperation to make her 'see'.

Well done son, that's real progress and i hope that this leaves you feeling like you can get on with your day, and christmas without fear, anger or anxiety.

Just what you say in that reply to me, makes me feel a sense of relief, even though it's not about me.

I really hope you're feeling some of that too.

(((Ross)))

[hummm_mabbe]

Yus defo feeling relief! Its more of an inner relief, like Ive said something that needed to be said from deep within.

I am anticpiating some shit over xmas, and I am kind of trapped down there for a week, but hopefully I can just bring this same sense of self awareness if it does kick off. I was amazed how quickly my rage subsided when I started to draft the reply, it really was like "OMG she really IS LIKE THIS - its not just my imagination!".

There are some murmurings from my inner invalidator, which makes sense because that voice is 50% my sister lol, but part of me knows ive said it now, and that all I have to do is stay away. No need for any more convincing or rationalising. Now I dont desperately need her anymore, I can be free.

Ross

[Wobbles]

Yay for freedom!!

:)

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Wobbles

Ive just spoke to me dad, and I feel about a ,illion times better He said he understands and isnt going to pressure me into anything. I was actually quite glad to hear that he isnt going to take sides - it does at least sound like he is trying to be a responsible parent and balance both sides. There is still a little part of me that wonders if maybe he doesnt agree with me, or thinks Im making moutnains out of molehills, but I think I need to see that as my natural tendency to self invalidate. Im a little bit worried about other family members saying stuff, but dad said 'well if they do, just say "no thanks" and move on", which is exactly right.

So id be lying if I said I didnt feel any sense of trepidation, or worry that maybe things aret as they seem with dad, but maybe this is going to have to be an experiment in trust. Hmmm

Ross

[Wobbles]

Hey Ross,

Sounds like your dad has definitely done some growing.

What comes to mind, and please tell me stick it if i'm wrong, but i'm concerned that you might now be testing your dad. Testing to see if he's trustworthy or not. I know trust doesn't come easy, there is history there with him too, i suppose i'm just concerned in case he 'fails' and you're end up hurt.

Trepidation is to be expected. It's not the best time of year to lay low away from family and there is not a lot of time before christmas for things to cool down, but i think you have the tools now to handle it if the proverbial does hit the fan.

You've set the boundaries, just be loyal to yourself, first and foremost.

xx

[hummm_mabbe]

Hullo

No I dont think Im testing him, I think he has said what he has said, and it makes sense that part of me might still doubt. The mistrust schema only gets better by acknoledging the expectation of betrayal, and holding out long enough to see that it does not happen. Dad has said his bit, all I can do is see what unfolds. I Actually do feel respect for him for wanting to see both sides, because I would wonder if taking only my side meant he was angry at her about something himself. To be honest, he is at least in part acting like the parent I wish he had been all those years ago.

Not quite telling you to stick it, but a mild rebuff lol Im trying to listen to little ross now, ask him what hes scared about and things.

Ross

[jetno]

:I do not mean to lessen the impact of what you have written .I want to say that I have been met with similar hostility within my own family. I visited my family a few years ago and tried to discuss my situation with one of my sisters. My siblings closed ranks immediately and the defences went up. I had tried to talk to one of the older ones as I thought the younger ones might not remember many things. I realised that they had all settled for the status quo.

It was painful because I had spent much of my early life trying to protect the younger ones from the impact of a sometimes extreme environment. Thus I became the scapegoat for many things at that time. What shocked me was when I realised that the younger ones had also accepted me in that role even into their adulthood and still expected me to fulfill the role. As to the theme of right or wrong ,my brother just said "but they are still my parents". My sister suggested false memory syndrome. Then they eventually settled on "ok, you had it rough , but it could have been worse." lol.

I suppose what I am saying to you is that people can and do deny any reality that is uncomfortable and certainly do not appreciate people like you (or me) making reference to it. They fear the loss of control over the situation and fear having to confront themselves and destroy their carefully constructed fantasy of how things were .

They did not succeed in making me change or compromise on what I had experienced and so now there exists a distance and an uneasy peace where I can sometimes sense their anger at me beneath the surface,on the rare occasions that we meet or call. I am ok with this and I find it ok if I do not have to live a lie to ease other peoples guilt or fear of being seen as they are.

think you are dealing with it appropriately.. seeya

******

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi jet

Yes I can well relate to that, it brings up that sense of frustration and powerlessness I can so relate to. I think as you say, you come to a point where you know they are not going to change and you have to accept that. For me, there has never been any real relationship with my sister, and a damaging one with my mum. I saw that I was afraid of saying what i felt in case I 'lost' their love. Bu then I realised what it was I was talking about 'losing' - relationships that hurt and kept me stuck. The only way to be free of it is to accept that you are never going to have what you wanted, to let go of the mirage, and it sounds like this is what you did. As you say now, there is an uneasy peace! This is what Ive had for the past god knows how long, so im not actually changing it for anything different. Apart from the fact that like you, I am not willing to fill that role anymore, especially not within my own head. That is the difference - although they may still think it, its taking back the terrotory of my own mind. I dont have to see myself as that person anymore.

Ross