LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Claire-we are a lot a like and I think you will see a lot of you in the book. No where in that book does it mention BPD-which is great...but all the testimonies and the life traps are what we go through everyday. It makes me feel better and the authors make it seem as we are normal human beings who have problems stemming from our childhoods. I was actually excited when reading this book because it was so me. It was like reading about me and so many have these traits its surprising. It actually has given me hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Yes-he likes working with Borderlines. I will tell you about my experience in a sec. My friend is talking up a storm on MSN and my brain cannot do two things at one. She will be going to bed soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 he must like a challenge, or a headache tee hee k... hope she goes to snooze land soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 I found my T online and called her up and told her that I have panic attacks and BPD. You remember when I was having them bad and became agoraphobic. Well, I went to see her and she first focused on the panic attacks by educating me about what a panic attack is and teaching me how to breathe. The first session I had with her I went to the mall and out to eat with my friend. She also gives me homework and every day I have to record my emotions:anxiety, fear, depression, and anger 0-10. It helps you steop outside and look at how your emotions fluctuate from day to day. I still have anxiety but I can leave the house, get on the bus, and go to supermarkers without constantly worrying about having a panic attack, passing out and being rushed to the ER. Now we are working on my behaviour. Now thats the fun part! It is annoying, frustrating and a real pain in the ass. Yes, it can be painful and I have broken down in tears in her office. I have expressed my anger out on her. She does push me but I think she is trying to make me get it out. She has also tried relaxation techniques such as making a take with her voice on it and trying to practice it at home...which I have not done yet. She makes me think and bloody hell its annoying but it actually works. Schema therapy is very intense. I explained it in another post. Its actually quite fascintating really. I mean it does incorporate your inner child and believe me I did not fully understand this concept at first but I have a different perspective of it now. I have seen her since the end of Jan now. My drinking has decreased, anger, and some other problems. I really want to work on my abandonment issues because I still have them and I still continue to push people away. It is a long process and lots of hard work but progress is never easy., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 em that sounds like progress to me. good going. thanks for sharing your experience of it - it is certainly a vote of confidence. i have started reading a book called Families And How To Survive Them, by Robin Skynner and John Cleese. It is helpful so far. It talks about how and why we are attracted to people and in doing so how this relates back to our family experience. The theory seems to go that we all hide certan emotions from ourselves because our parents hid them and shunned us for displaying them, and in the end we learned we would be loved more for not displaying them so they got pushed behind a 'screen' and ignored, to the point where we didn't even know that we had done it. To us there is no screen. This leaves the entire gamult of human emotions in front of the screen, minus those things we have hidden behind it. We unconsciously seek out people who will not challenge us to express or deal with the hidden screened off emotions. So for example. If we had hidden anger, we would be attracted to people who never showed anger and looked happy all the time. Or if envy has been screened off we would gel with people who were not very competitive or didnt try to emulate others much. But then after time, perhaps when we move in with them or after spending lots and lots of time together, things start to escape from behind the screen, like when we are tired, stressed or pissed up. And gradually we catch glimpses of what we both pretend isnt a part of us, and this starts to cause problems. Because we all need to experience all emotions to some extent - a complete lack of anger or envy because it is utterly screened off will make us into wimps, pushovers, meek, weak individuals who cannot compete in the job world or with others in a variety of ways. Sound familiar? And looking at mike, and listening to what he has said about his folks, well, the same things are behind the curtain for him... oh yeah and just to add; the reason why the little escapee glimpses of emotion are problematic, is that we have never learned to deal with them properly; in essence we missed out a stage of development. The person who hides angry feelings does not know how to express them safely, so they tend to come out very severely and out of nowhere, shocking everyone. It is a true outburst. In this way, angry outbursts in BPD can be viewed as a plebian attempt to lift the curtain and deal with the feelings. But we are crap at knowing how to deal with it cos we were never shown how. This is certainly tru of my mother and her mother, who sailed along and then WALLOP, where the fuck did that come from? Well thats as far as i have got with it. I have been analysing my family and mike's family and been trying to identify what is behind my screen - the easiest way, given that it is unconscious, is to ask myself, what do i never do? that is what is behind my screen - 1) self-love, self-congratulation, esteem type emotions - positive self stuff 2) jealousy / envy 3) enjoyment - the feeling of having fun, taking part, letting go, feeling good about things 4) meaningfulness - the feeling of things being 'enough' or deeply satisfying 5) childishness - although i spend much of my time being childish now, this is expressed now because it was not allowed as a child. it was behind a screen for ages. k it is hard to name some of the stuff as emotions. but people who meet me think - i am confident, sparky, well balanced, calm, together, intelligent. they would be shocked to learn that much of what defines me is behind this screen, so that really, my issues are with lack of confidence, dullness and boredom, stressedness, untogetherness, and stupidity. its a bit like the competent person thing - you catch on early to what is acceptable and what isnt and shove all the crap behind the curtain. anyway. thought i would share that with u. the more i find out about bpd the more i can see it as a straight maladaption due to early invalidation. if you look at all the ways you can be invalidated - being given up, adopted, fostered is one way, being abused is another, having an over involved mother and underinvolved father, being criticisised too much or having a lack of praise - real simple stuff those last two. well anyways. later xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Thats an awesome self-analysis. Its really important to figure out where things stem from it helps us understand who we are. We are so stuck in this defectivenesss life trap. While doing an exercise in the book I mentioned above I wrote nine pages of how my abandonment life trap came about. I wrote so much about college and what I had achieved. I though "shit! I have accomplished so much in my life that I worked my ass off ro achieve and I did it." I can't be that much of a loser. Then I realised that so many people in college believed in me. My friends saw me as an intelligent, passionate, and high achiever while I saw myself as shit. My profs. believed in me and pushed me because they saw something in me. Why did I continue to believe the putdowns from my mother and not from people who were not related to me but genuinely cared about me and took time out to talk to me. My history prof. took me out to lunch one day to discuss my depression with me. I mean I had so many people who supported me and I felt so good about myself. But, other people made me feel good not myself. So now I do not have the same support so I reverted back into this defectiveness life trap. I have to climb out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 in fact i can recall liking pop songs when i was about 13, and my mother would sit there and criticise the performers for this that and the other - talentless, ugly, stupid, frivelous, whore, and so on, to the point where for me to come out and say yeah actually i like this performer or this song, would have conflicted with her views, and so much so, becasue it would mean to her that i wanted to identify with whores, talentless people, ugly people, frivelous people, stupid people and so on. this was an enormous risk, so i said instead, yeah, what a buch of wankers. this pattern was repeated many many times throughout my childhood, to the point where my 'self' was formed by what she thought. but this self i formed was always in conflict wit my hidden self, the one pushed behind the curtain, the one that if it had come out would have been invalidated. one other example which has really affected my social relationships, is that she was very vocal about dismissing the importance of fun in life. she constantly criticised my friends for being to 'fun' and for laughing and wanting to be frivelous. rather than accepting this is a component of life it was depicted as something for me to avoid. again, it was her way or the highway, so much so, that i ended up leaving home several times just to try and establish some sort of freedom within which i could express this stuff. anyway. thats enough for now. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 ((((((((((((((((((((((Claire))))))))))))))))))) Totally agree about the language! I once told this boy who apologised for saying 'fuck' in front of me that it was fine to swear as long as you really meant it - which I really believe! My favourite one is 'Bollox' but in situations of imminent danger I resort to 'Jesus Christ' or even in severe danger 'Jesus fucking Christ' (apologies Lady and all other Christians on the site - I have always hoped that he will hear the sentiment and ignore the profanity) I think that it is much more important to find a good therapist who you get on with than to worry about whether they practise CBT or psychodynamic therapy. I've encountered some excellent therapists and some for whom I have total contempt and who have cheerfully returned the sentiment. What you should remember Claire is that you are almost certainly brighter than they are and that they are probably threatened by that because unless they are very good, good enough to be confident with someone who challenges them intellectually they will try to control you and will use their professional advantage to put you down. I am paying £92 for one to one therapy at the Capio Nightingale in Lisson Grove. It is a lot to be paying while I am on benfits, but it is really helping me enormously and I feel the expense is worth it. I met the therapist when I was an inpatient there when he took a group and I asked my consultant to refer me to him. I still think, as I've said before that you should at least try to get yourself assessed by a private consultant, even if you do not need admission, because he or she will then be able to refer you to someone who will be a good 'fit'. You are way outside the average client type and so I don't think that it will be easy to get the best treatment from the NHS unless you get really lucky. Anyway, I've given you my views at length already, so I don't know how much more I can add. I'm really glad that you are actively pursuing help. Looking forward to your housewarming party :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 lol swan. i will take that as a compliment, as intended! haha by the way re the mutual contempt. we both laughed on leaving the therapy room last night and i said 'little dances, little dances', and i swear we both knew what we were thinking, ie, oh dear, this just isnt going to work! yeah i do think ordinary therapists are at a bit of a loss with us really. i dont feel bitter about that - it is a lot to take on. i just wish more people were trained to deal with it cos thats clearly better for us. lady - i am interested in what you say about your experiences. i think our book idea would be great if it focused on how we were able to recover. if and when we get there of course. thats what people need - a bit of inspiration. not just a book full of doom. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Someone say party? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Some may think that they know more than therapists but in actual fact we really are not trained in clinical psychology or hold degrees...kinda like saying we know more than our medical doctors isn't it? Yes we know a lot about ourselves and I do continue to challenge my T all the time which usually leaves me gutted because I am nota psychologist. Its proven that Borderlines to challenge and test their therapist which can leave feeling insecure. But, we go to them for help...if we knew how to fix our own problems we would not need to be in therapy. Its just like performing surgery on ourselves. We cannot remain objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Thats why I love "Reinventing your life." Yes, I am still game on the book idea. Inspiraing hope into individuals is def. something I would be interested in doing especially since I need to feel inspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 What you posted earlier about the 'screen' and early invalidation is absolutely correct, as is the attraction to people with (I would say) similar issues who have also concealed them. I have experienced all these things - my most dangerous one right now is anger, which is so frightening and dangerous that I can barely describe it at this point. But for all the years that I was depressed all I could manage was the simulation of anger. Now that I am finally experiencing it, and admitting that I'm experiencing it (instead of hiding it behind amnesia) it is exhausting and very frightening but I do also feel that I am making some progress with it. My other thing is thinking or believing that I am 'special' and deserve different treatement from everyone else. I would never have admitted to this one before this week, but have just realised that I was brought up to believe this by my parents and headmaster and certain teachers, who also indulged all the skipped classes, irregular sleep patterns and potentially destructive relationships with older and mentally ill men on the grounds that it was evidence and the result of my 'giftedness'. Crap if ever I heard it, but at 12 years old I just did what I was told and if they wanted me to be different and special I did my best to live up to expectations. Another good book on this subject is 'They F*** you up, Your Mom and Dad' by Oliver James, who writes for the Observer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 true lady.. we dont know everything, but, i still think it is valid to say we know more than the average idiot. shit thats really patronising and mean. im not allowed to do that. it's behind my curtain but in truth a lot of people who go to therapy do not know anything about psychology and its attempts to understand and correct problematic behaviours and thought patterns. some people's approach to life is very much driven by blind acceptance. and in fact the more intelligent you are and the more you read the harder you are to treat because you start saying things like "yes, but..." and you start quoting psychologists and their research findings like this, "true, but if you examine page 3 of Milgram's research findings from the studies he performed on obedience, i think you will understand quite adequately why my mother was able to make me lick the cat's bottom whilst i had two electrodes attached to my ears" and so on. Ok that last one wouldnt wash but you get the idea. ex- you bloody make me die. you wander into a heavy debate about such and such, and ask about parties! ffs. yes, there is a party 'going down' at my new pad sometime at the end of april, and yes, it would be great if you could make it. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 swan you are absolutely right about that... my parents told me i was special - that meant, none of the other kids like you because you are so smart (no, other smart kids got liked, i was just an ugly little goody goody wimp who they knew they could push around, who was uncool in every single way a person can be uncool) but they couldnt admit that i suppose. but thats my mum's fault anyway for making me dress like a retard (aka like her). sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 might i add, because she had the same things behind the screen - like, dont bother to dress nice, because intelligence is way more important than looks, and you are just vain and vacuous if you make an effort er, and then i found out i couldnt be a genius, that i was just a bit above average intelligence, and didnt have any looks to compensate or a social life; well you get the idea xx its curtains!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Yeah Claire...you hit the nail on the head. I am constabtly bringing up things to my therapists that pertain to psychology...I am always arguring with her "yes, but..." I am pretty self-aware and I tell her what my problems are and I need to change them. She has told me I would make a good therapist but right now I must stop self-dxing because I am not trained to do so. I can tell you what your problem is and how your thinking is irrational as you could do the same for me. However its much harder to remain objective to ourselves. Its a continuing pattern of defectiveness that drives us back down that continuing road of destruction. We need to learn how to stray from that road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 shit i have to go to dinner now. please keep the debate rolling guys it is fascinating. this has really inspired me cos it makes so much sense. xx thanks for all your contributions too : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 yeah thats absolutely correct lady. it is good we both realise it. even if right now we cant help ourselves, soon we will. like looking at the cookie jar and then being able to walk away. it must be infuriating for them to be second guessed all the time. does she ever tell you to 'yes but... shut up!' ??? lol xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 My mum dressed me like a retard too. My sister was the "special" one though. Yea, funny how things change right! Mu mum also banned me from playing with pretty much every single friend I had because they did not meet up to her standards. She put everyone down I was friends with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 yes! i am sure many of us share similar patterns huh? im so glad this all means it is my parents fault lol - i knew it all along! xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 please dont die hunni bunny as I need a good party :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 :lol: what a wit you are. you will have to stop making me laugh to the point of suffocation then. i am in your hands lol xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Not yet but I think she would like too though. I was a bitch my last session i questioned everything. When she told me to exercise I burst into tears and said "I know I am fat my mother told me all the time!" When she did not mean that at all. I knew that too I was just in a defensive mood. When she told me about doing into DBT I said "Why would I go into DBT if I am not borderline?" I question everything. I bet its bloody frustrating! She is friends with my old T who I was very close too but with my former one I agreed with everything she said. Now I am just a fiesty bitch. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Sometimes I blame myself all the time. Such as when my T went to the defense of my father I threw in her face that it was all my fault. I am such a worthless bitch! I said it out of anger. Or when she mentioned the severity of cutting I said "Whats really wrong with it? Its not like I am taking drugs or hurting other people. I know the severity of it. I am not that stupid...I think I was so angry that I wanted a reaction. I never really got one though she just kept on challenging my arguments. I think I will apologise for that I feel guilty about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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