Swan Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Is this my book idea guys or another one? Certainly a book needs to be written and I think BPD is a big issue in psychiatry at the moment judging by all the job and course ads in the Guardian Society issues. Lady, I'm not suggesting that we know better than the doctors. But I've lived with this since I was fourteen - that's twenty eight years, two thirds of my life. I've read, I've analysed, I've thought long and hard and I've experienced the full range of treatment from the very best available to the most negligent and incompetent. One of the biggest problems that mental health patients suffer from throughout the world is the idea that as soon as you receive the diagnosis your status suddenly plummets and your experience and knowledge is downgraded - I've watched it happen to me - some of the statements that doctors have come out with in front of me just beggar belief not to mention logic! The best doctors and therapists are crucial to our recovery, but we have a right to have access to them as well as decent acute wards etc. I don't know about America but the NHS provisions in the UK are shameful. When the big asylums were closed in the 70's and 80's all the money was hived off into general medicine so that in many areas there is a serious undersupply of beds and staff and conditions are so bad that staff won't stay. My local ward is notorious throughout the London psychiatric profession and yet the Primary Care Trust won't put any money in to upgrade it. Another problem seems to be that certain GPs have the idea that they can practise therapy as a kind of sideline, and so don't refer when they should do. I've encountered two of these - one who thought that my fears that my ex husband would be violent to me were groundless because 'he isn't violent during sex' (although looking back he did have some pretty wierd expectations!), the next one was so impressed with me that instead of giving me a referral to a psychiatrist he gave me his private phone number and email address 'so that I could report him to the GMC' - I may yet do it! The point I'm making is that yes, by all means trust a doctor or therapist if he or she deserves it, but don't be naive, because people enter the profession for all sorts of reasons and not all of them are beneficial to their patients. A mental illness diagnosis renders you more powerless than any other kind of illness, the only people who can change that are us - the intelligent, articulate patients who have the resources to demand better treatment, and the ability to make the 75 % of the population who won't experience mental illness understand our experience in a way which will not frighten and alienate them but will reinforce the idea that we remain part of society, even when ill, against a general trend in politics at present which is based on fear and containment. *steps down off her soapbox* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 I also had geeky clothes and wasn't allowed to choose the friends I wanted And my mom wore terrible clothes and was miserable and bossy the whole time. And no one even agreed with me that she was horrid to people until I was in my twenties and started meeting some of her friends without her - God it was a relief to discover that it wasn't all just my imagination. Although she's much better now she's come to terms with some of the nastier bits of her upbringing. Philip Larkin got it so right - they do fuck you up, but it's not their fault because they were fucked up too I'm so exhausted guys - I've so much to say on this but I'm struggling just to get through my own shit just now, so please keep talking so that I can watch all these brilliant ideas emerging :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 I agree with you there are a lot of shady therapists out there. What stinks is that my T does not accept insurance so my father is paying for my therapy bills. I can locate therapists on my insurance plan the program is it does not give you a description of the therapist or tells you what there specializations are for the most part. If the website does show their specialization it does not really pertain to my own diagnosis. The only therapist I saw on my insurance plan was a nightmare. She may have been good for other patients but she became frustrated and angry with me and I lost trust in her very quickly. I laso like the fact that my current T has dxed me with an anxiety disorder because she does not want to label me with a PD and have that ruin my chances of getting a job or getting into grad schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 hey i have had my dinner now so... lady it is good your dad is able to pay. i am sure you are not happy about it, but hey, the way i see it is they fuck you up they should pay lol shame you cannot get it on insurance. i have no insurance either : ( xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 I do have insurance he pays for that too...I was just dropped after finishing school and my job was screwing me around. I was supposed to get insurance last Sept, then they told me this July. Well, I am not there anymore but when I do get a full-time job I will get my own insurance but I still won't be able to pay for therapy on my own. I hate being dependent. Need to get a job! :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 i hear ya. i also need a job. gah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzapants Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 maybe we don't need therapy instead of spedning the moeny on docs, shrinks, therapists, police men, hospitals, ambulances for us, they should take that money and provide a place for people like us to live, they have a responsibility to provide a place to live for everyone born here (i am not get political just a turn of phrase), every move i make in this country must be within the sysstem otherwise it is deemed illegal anf therefore invalid...if you catch my drift. so give us a commune, a place for those of us who cannot live within this social machine without the government expending a lot of money....more than "normies". don't just dope us up and up and up and then when that doesn't work arrest us, section us, lock us up. accept that some of us will never fit in to your society, but that doesn't mean that outside these bars of taxation, public order offences lists of people waiting for their little piece of acceptance, we can't be happy healthy individuals. we don't need therapy we need a brave new world. and i think the latter would be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 kazza i just wanted to say that you rock. it is refreshing to hear that other people think the way i do about society and its contribution ot our problems, and how revolution of society could benefit us, and you know, it would benefit everyone - the stress of modern living is getting to everyone. something like 1 in 2 workers nowadays will need long term time off work for stress related illness. that's blinkin 50% of people. people need to steer away from money money money and beuracratising everything. life is so much more complicated that it has to be - i still cannot believe that we are all working 35 - 40 hr weeks just so we have a roof over our heads and food to eat. it's mad. and thats all people need really - a place to live and food. and a solid spiritual belief. i would rather dies of a curable illness at 25, my age, if i had a solid spiritual belief that i was going to 'heaven' or something. science has ruined my life! ok im ranting. and the last bit didnt make too much sense - i was going somewhere with it but i cant be bothered to finsih it. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calyps Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Claire, I have loved every minute of this thread- you guys are all so goddam intelligent/perceptive/laterally thinking- I wanted to put in my 2 cents but have been blown away! i too have a real problem with the whole way society works but am not able to articulate myself as eloquently as you guys! May we rock on forever! xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 i still cannot believe that we are all working 35 - 40 hr weeks just so we have a roof over our heads and food to eat. it's mad. and thats all people need really - a place to live and food. and a solid spiritual belief. i would rather dies of a curable illness at 25, my age, if i had a solid spiritual belief that i was going to 'heaven' or something. science has ruined my life! I agree. Hence my desire to live in a simple cottage in the middle of no where. To live of the land and be self sufficent. This is also why im having such a tizzy fit over the amount of meds they want me to take. I strongly feel that given a relaxed way of life. lots of fresh air,working on my land to feed myself everyday and possibly taking herbal suppliments would leave me mentally and emotionaly far better of than I am now. To 'work' in such a direct way to support myself makes far more sense than spending 40 hours a week to earn someone else a profit before I gain a small percentage of what my work is actually worth to my employee. I think that even 100 years back they had the right ideas. Everyone knew there place in society. They knew what was expected of them. Life must of made a lot more sense. I really couldnt see this country pulling together now days in the way we did during the world wars. The chance of most young men going of to fight for queen and country is slim to none. Everyone is far to out for there own personal gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 well i have always jested about this, but behind it there is a serious sentiment; if my dad becomes a millionaire (which he is supposed to do soon) then i will get a place in the country and turn it into a mental health retreat for those with bpd. it wont cost anything to be there - all you do is help work the land to provide food and to keep the place tidy and clean and running well etc. we would have group activities, like singing, songwriting, playing instruments, massage therapy / alternative therapies cooking, learning about herbal medicine, arts, crafts, horeseriding, all that stuff. and the place would have to get funded by some charity or something... that would be neat : ) xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Oh Lost, you are a Sweetie :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Oohhh.....I wanna come! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Me to. Bagsy the stable dutys :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMacbeth Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 I wanna work in the stable with ex as well! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Just started reading a fab book by Julia Neuberger - who I think was Chief Rabbi at one point if she isn't still - she's certainly very informed, intelligent, influential and all those other 'in's It's called 'The Moral State We're In' and it is all about how this (UK) society treats it's most vulnerable members and what that says about society (basically that it is up to shit!) It may be just coincidence, but almost everyone I know is thinking and saying the same thing, and nobody thinks that this stupid election is of any relevance or use. People have different ideas on what the answers are, but the sense of community having broken down and our lives being wasted by the way most people have to work to live is so widespread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 i used to have the motivation to take on the government, become a politician and try to change things. now i dont. now all i can reasonably aim for is to carve out my own piece of sense within a world going maaaad. i wish i wasnt so lazy sometimes... but then, it is qute a thing to do - effect revolution, so maybe in the scheme of things i am more realistic than apathetic. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzapants Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 i can't remember who said it...but apparently the only thing thats ever changed the world is a small group of people quietly getting on with something....thats us guys!! i'm actually in the process of learning to write a business plan (euughhh bearocracy (SP!! lol) ) because i would love my own little organic farm....like you said just sustaining myself and whoever happens to live there. that is all we need...to sustain life, the rest is just bollox really isnt it? but....if someones dad were to become a millionaire......hmmmm........do you think if we were given the opportunity we could make it work? cos my juxtaposition is thus: our brave new world will develop rules and laws of its own....surely it must even if we do go in with the best of intentions......it has to to survive, even if it starts small, like no pissing in the kitchen...its a rule, someone will end up taking responsibility for enforcing it, and things could snowball. there have to be rules, even if the rule is no rules. how would we manage this evolution of our microsociety? i'm actually asking so let give us yer thoughts! ps...thanks lost that post mad me blush!!...and you started it so you can rock too!!! plus you play drums, so you can actually rock!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzapants Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 sorry, i forgot to explain the other position ... or the first one...but i'm worried....by the potential to snowball i mean.......well what i really mean is we can't live totally ouside of society...we would be subject to taxation still, etc etc oh i've forgotten what i meant sorry!! i'll leave the articulation to you guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 I dont know,The Vatican has its own rules and currency. Its a seperate country as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Guess we could go chuck eggs at them untill they surrender and retreat. Then it would be ours :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 kazza - yes, we have to live within the most broad laws of society, such as paying tax or buying land. whilst we may not agree with this, we cannot buck it, so we have to just get on with it. i personally think it is a shame we cannot just find some derilict land and cultivate it and build on it, but then i am also glad there is such a law about where you can go and what you can do there, or i would lose rights to my land. so its ok - i dont mind so much. there are so many of us now that it works best that way. but as far as being self sufficient within that, well, this is well achievable. if you are building from scratch, which is what i would do, you can build with many different money saving tactics in mind - eg - recycling waste into compost, feeding leftovers to animals, wind turbine and solar power or water wheel for energy, recycling rainwater into drinking water or even take your water from the ground using a borehole. you can buy these kit houses that are very simple and cheap. stick it in a field. with regards to rules and things going pear shaped... it really depends on developing a good solid ethos right at the beginning so that everyone knows why they are there and what they are doing. then it is down to who you let in... if everyone there is respectful and team players, many problems that could rear their heads wont be an issue. it is not a eutopia - there will be problems to resolve wherever there are people, but if everyone is comfortable, and the ethos is sound, you can prolly go a long way to living quite stress free. well i dont have all the answers... you ask could we make it work... there is only one way to find out! xx ps i can recommmend a good book for anyone wanting to find out more about how to actually achieve a self-sufficient lifestyle: How to be self- sufficient, John Seymour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Anyone else had experience of a therapeutic community? Because I spent 6 months at the Cassel and it was really hard. People are so different, and when you add bpd to the mix it can get really explosive sometimes. Maybe a different ethos to what they had there, but I found that my 'individuality' was really challenged in ways I didn't like. Although I'm grudgingly admitting that it was necessary. I guess though that if it was more 'community' than 'therapeutic' living together might be easier. Don't know what I'm trying to say - maybe just that I like living alone at the moment :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueocean Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 i've had both cbt and dbt in england. i fought it all the way - until it was a case of work with them or die. when i actually decided to work, dbt was amazing. it has taken over my life. i use the skills taught every single day of my life. but i hate the fact that i have to use them, why should i have to. i do the therapy to survive. but i hate being a survivor. i don't want to be one. i want to be 'normal' blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 swan - there are lots of therapeutic communities around. there is one notable one in scotland called lochlorian or something like that i guess my 'vision' of this place wouldn't be so much that it focuses on therapy as an active process.. as in, now we do therapy i think it would just evolve more subtly than that - the activities promoted within the place would be therapeutic, the lifestyle would be anti-stress and esteem building and sociable and supportive and accepting. there is no set therapy regime - more that the place just IS good for the psyche the more i get into art, drumming, keyboard and songwriting the more i feel that expression is so important. and the more i go out for walks and runs and that, the more i realise how important it is to be in the natural world, get fresh air, and take exercise. i think a lot of the depression people feel is due to the fact that we dont get enough exercise, and eat bad food. well its a lot of things. so yeah - a community that revolves around good diet, exercising, free creative expression and true supportive social relationships would be alright by me. blue - nice to see you getting involved in this thread. glad to see dbt has worked wonders for you. i am looking to get on a dbt course too. everyone needs someting to survive and be ok / happy. for some it is cars, for some, drugs, for some, ladies, for others, holidays in the sun, for others still it is a good career or children. we all need things - there is no shame in it. your need is dbt. its a lot healthier than drugs! and what is normal anyway. whatever normal passes for round here i dont wanna be it, believe me! i would have to start walking with a limp and wearing getto gold for one. not my thang. but hey - whatever works right? we are all different, and thank god, cos it would be hellishly boring otherwise... love xx losty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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