Selective Mutism

[Roses]

ok, as some of you know I have been known not to talk for days on end and the usual thing I do when I'm overwhelmed by life is sit alone on the floor (cos you can't fall any further than the floor), in the dark and not talk. What I haven't said before is that I CAN'T talk. Last night, for example, I'm in a right state but can't utter a word. All this stuff is buzzing round my head. Mike comes in, puts a relaxation CD on for me, starts talking to me and I'm crying and stuff and he just comes out with it. He asked me how I would feel if he was upset but could never talk to me? I'm like OMG that is so right, I just don't talk. I mean eventually I come round and start talking day2day but never about all that stuff that was whirring round inside. Then I got to thinking bout how shy I was as a kid and didn't have many friends or talked to anyone. Then I'm thinking about how the first time I told what happened to me in full was 6 months ago to a bloody copper I never met before! Obv. this was so I could nail that son of a bitch but if not for that I wouldnot have told. I prattle on about stuff on here but only recently have I started getting down the the nitty gritty. But I literally can't talk.

All the info on the web is aimed at children with this. I mean I think I defo had it as a child but what now? Cos I'm an adult that's it? All I kept saying last night was that it wasn't safe to talk and I couldn't talk and then there would be long silences and I'd cry and shake it was awful. I don't want to be in this place anymore. I want to talk but I can't. I've needed to talk for so long. I mean for the first time ever I did manage to say that I sit in the quiet cos I can't talk but that's hardly fucking opening up is it?

It's just so frustrating.

[Villan]

((((((((((((((roses))))))))))))))

can you find other ways of expressing what you need... artwork, writing, you used to write great poetry... not seen much of that posted recently now i think about it... or maybe even express yourself through other people's lyrics - i knwo you do that sometimes too...

i dont know about selective mutism, but i do know that the more you try and do something, the less likely you are to achieve it... like going to sleep...

there ARE other ways of communicating... maybe find one that feels right for now and don't worry too much about the talking stuff...

Love to you as always...

Kath xxxxxxxxxx

[Roses]

Thanks Kath. I was looking at poetry recently and think that might be good. I haven't touched the piano in months either. But this has been going on since forever. Since as long as I can remember. I think it might have to do with the whole having to stay quiet as a child thing, I'm not sure but I'm defo gonna speak bout it with t on Thurs.

I think I might do a painting, there is something satisfying bout the slape of paint on a canvas. Thanks hun.

If anyone has any advice/info it's much appreciated as I can literally find nothing on this subject for adults although I do have severe anxiety and am on meds for that so perhaps the professionals already guessed I got this anyway. And I have been housebound for months on end when not able to go out and that.

[Villan]

hmmmmm... waht is to say that you cant use the stuff you find for children... inner child stuff and all taht - and you also said you think this stems from childhood (doesnt everything *sigh*) so that actually may be a good way to start...

just a thought - dunno if appropriate... xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Roses

I dont know if its the same thing, but when I was living at home, and perhaps a couple of times with my last girlfriend, I experienced a kind of paralysis of speaking that may be similar.

The reason it happend was because what I was feeling was so intense, I did not believe it would be understood. I felt that no matter how I expressed it, I would be invalidated or somehow made to feel worse - that I already felt so awful the best thing was to say nothing because I did not want the other person making me feel bad. Or it was not wanting to feel the frustration of not being able to expres myself and so on. In all it was simply the sense that expressing what I felt would only make everything worse - and so I would say nothing. When i tried to speak, it was like there was a physical barrier there.

That is unless they pushed and pushed - and then I would just bite their head off...

Ross

[Roses]

Thanks for sharing that Ross, sorry that you have been in this situation too. Um.. it sounds similar on a smaller scale. I mean this is something I've been suffering with all my life and I literally cannot talk at all and sometimes not for days. When I read the literature about it in children it does sound just like I was as a child but cos I never talked about it, it has continued in my adult life. However, I cannot find any information on how adults are treated or diagnosed for this. I think it is normal for most people to worry bout what they say and sometimes not be able to speak but when it is every time and for days at a time... I don't know. I'm starting to regret this as people will probably just think I'm stupid now. I don't know but something is telling me it's not right to be this way.

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi rosey

I think as always, look at the emotions involved. May be hard to do if you feeling overwhelmed at the time, but what do you think you;re feeling at the time? Is it fear? Detachment? Something else?

Ultimately I think that if you do find a treatment, it is going to be of an emotional type anyways, as opposed to medicinal, so mabbe take a look under the ol emotions rock .. ? Just some ideas ....

Also mabbe look at avoidant personality disorder for ideas - not saying you have it, but as far as I know SM tends to come up a lot for folks with AvPD

Ross

[hummm_mabbe]

Oo dont know if you tried it, but add "adults" to your search for selective mutism, brings up some stuff :)

[Roses]

Thanks Ross. I will look into it. And yeah, I think it's the fear again. It's bloody everywhere. I'm gonna get a fucking shotgun and shoot it.

[hummm_mabbe]

Something just hit me

What would happen if you tried to write? Some of what Ive just looked at suggests that the throat actually constricts due to anxiety, which would be understandable.

However if you could not write either, that might suggest that the fear of what will happen as a result of WHAT you are communicating is the problem, not the base physiology itself.

Also, I read that trying to make a selectively mute person speak only reinforces their anxiety and makes them worse. patience, calm and understanding, and the presence of a totally trusted person, are all needed to begin to get the person to talk. You have said a number of times that you do not trust Mike to always react sensitively, and that he may even come across as invalidating sometimes. Telling you to ask yourself how it feels to not be talked to is just such an example of a behaviour that will make you feel guilt - exactly as you did. If the aim is to get you to a state of calm where you can speak, then this is not the best approach.

Again linking it back to your abuse - you were hurt, and you were dismissed. You learned that expressing your pain and feelings lead to worse outcomes - it makes sense that somewhere at the back of your mind, speaking is a bad idea when you feel frightened and vulnerable.

Ross

[Roses]

Yeah, I just read that too... it's all linking together now cos I remember once asking Mum why my throat felt like it was choking me (every time I swallowed it felt literally a huge lump in it) and she said that her Mum suffered with that and it has a medical name but I can't remember right now. But it is part of how I feel sometimes. Sometimes I can't talk but throat is fine, but sometimes it literally feels like I'm choking and I have alwaysh hated things around my neck. When I was 17 my bf tried to strangle me to death which hasn't helped either.

You are right I don't trust Mike to always respond sensitively but then I don't trust ANYONE to really, that is part of the problem I think and you are right it links back to childhood. In all fairness to him though last night it's not what he would usually say to me and he did calm me down and had meds and cuddled up in bed b4 he said anything but I think he might be running out of ideas and was trying to sort of shock a reaction out of me, but with the best intentions I mean. I don't feel upset him saying that but you are right it didn't encourage me to talk either.

Yes, talking = bad. What happened to me was bad but worse has happened to others and I have to think about my brother and his life too....this is the sort of thing I was faced with as a child. So I guess it's internalised as "you are worthless"

[shadow8]

Sorry feeling this way Roses and that you have gone throu this since a child.

I also have this when I find it so hard to speak to people and just can't even be in the same room as them. At least if I am alone they won't try and talk to me either. I don't know what it comes from but it feels a bit like fear.

I think its good you are saying what goes on for you. It may not feel like much but it is and it takes you one step closer to maybe understanding. I think its a good idea for you to tell your t.

((((((((((((Roses))))))))))

[hummm_mabbe]

I just wanted to say too

I feel like you are making massive strides lately Roses Mabbe feels a bit odd for me to say it, but it feels like things are starting to come out, mabbe you feeling a little safer inside somewhere, I dont know. Tis a good thing tho

Ross

[Roses]

Thanks My Shadow, and Ross. Thanks so much for talking this through with me Ross xxxxx

[sarabpd]

Sorry roses you are feeling like this. My emotions get so intense and I feel I cannot speak. I close myself up. The thoughts stop my thought process and increase the paranoia.

When I have been in hospital , I have been so scared with my situation that I could not speak and the staff accused me of being arrogant. When it finally came to a head I told them that I could not speak as the thoughts were too intrusive and I could not trust anyone. It is a bad place to be in and not being able to trust anyone is a lonely place.

It may be so different for you but I thought I would tell you my muteness.

Hope you are okay and as the others have said you have come on so well recently and if you can write it all down and take it to DBT with you xxx

[Roses]

Thank you for sharing Sassy, it means a lot and it's great that you can say it. Thanks too for saying I have come a long way. I have a list and a copy of the fears I listed in other thread and some info on Avoidant Personality Disorder and selective mutism to take to the appt tomorrow. I'll let you all know how I get on and if I managed to talk or just shove pieces of paper in his hand... xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

Thank you for sharing Sassy, it means a lot and it's great that you can say it. Thanks too for saying I have come a long way. I have a list and a copy of the fears I listed in other thread and some info on Avoidant Personality Disorder and selective mutism to take to the appt tomorrow. I'll let you all know how I get on and if I managed to talk or just shove pieces of paper in his hand... xxx

Yayyyy really hope it works out rosie poppington

May I suggest you use post its and stick each one to his forehead

Ross

[Roses]

LOL or I could make a flow diagram?

[hummm_mabbe]

LOL or I could make a flow diagram?

Yus use the whiteboard

Ross

[Roses]

**gets out markers**

Hmmmm...... maybe a venn diagram? PMSL :lol:

[hummm_mabbe]

Galaxy is a subset of Chocolate

Which is a subset of Happy

I think I remember venn diagrams a bit lol

Ross

[Roses]

Yay!!! The primary colours can be orgainsed into a venn diagram, 3 circles of colour all adjoining and where they meet a new colour is made yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

But I think I will mostly be using the suttering and pointing technique :huh:

[thesloaneranger]

just sending ya hugs roses.....im no help, and i dont even know what a venn diagram is, so its the best i can offer! lmao! xxx

[Roses]

OK so I had my t session and I'm now in contemplation mode.

So we talked about the selective mutism and he said he doesn't think it's that and that it is to do with thei dissociation/protection schema. I literally cannot talk but not due to mutism, it's due to me dissaciating severely in certain situations and it's why I run away so much and spend so much time alone and that.

I read out my list of fears from the other thread and we talked about that, and we talked about the AvPD which he sort of said was more like it as it's anxiety driven.

The one little thing I glossed over her picked up on and that was my self harming when Mike and I rowed the other weekend. So we spent a lot of time talking about that and what happened and what I did. I felt really uncomfortable talking bout it as I know Mike doesn't like it when I talk about our personal relationship but he just kept saying to me that I had a valid reason to be upset which is something no-one ever says to me. He has also suggested that I might think we have a better relationship than we do (me and Mike) which is kinda like OMG.

Now I just feel like I have betrayed my husband and I feel awful. Mike is asking me if I want to talk cos I seem upset... it's awful. Dunno what to do or say.

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Rosey

Those are hard feelings to deal with, and in a way I can relate because it s similar to what I felt with my mum and sister. The thing I realised is that the most important thing about therapy is to see, pure and simply, 'what is', and sometimes 'what is' doesnt fit with what we think we should feel or what is ideal.

Tell your T that discussing that stuff makes you feel guilty and scared, see if there is some way that you can both look at things objectively that do not make you feel so uncomfy.

Identifying flaws and shortcomings in a relationship does not mean that it is totally broken, just a bit mucky in places, though ones that might be quite crucial to the current state of your mental health. Maybe through therapy you can find ways to negotiate these so that they do not continue to have negative impacts on you, that is to say, to be able to fully recognise how some of Mike's behaviours might hurt you, and so not sweep them under the carpet where they may cause you more damage, but also to find practical ways to get around those issues.

There have been a number of times where Mike seems to have done things that have left you feeling hurt and betrayed, and then shortly after you have seemed to almost blame yourself - e.g. in this thread where he told you to essentially consider how hard your mutism is for him. That is essentially a behaviour that is going to make you worse, and that is something that maybe needs to be seen for what it is. It doesnt have to mean anything, or that you have to take drastic action - just note what it is. But what you did instead was say that it must be hard on him, that maybe it was a last ditch attempt to get through to you, as though you were some kind of frustrating child that needed to be shocked out of a 'chosen' and annoying course of action. Don't get into the questions of right or wrong or who had a right to say what - just notice the feelings and the effects. Its what you feel inside that leads to your MH difficulties after all - not what others in your life had a right to do at the time. Otherwise thats a bit like getting run over by a car, saying its your fault because you should have looked better, and choosing to remain under the wheels to prove the point. No matter whose fault it was, you've got a broken leg and a tyre cutting off your oxygen. Fix it

Its not about blame - noticing problems and things that affect you does not directly equate to 'what you must do about it'. Noticing, for your own sake, the environmental effects that controbute to your current problems is a fundamental part of recovery. It may be that knowing it alone is enough, so do not feel guilty and like you are being forced into choosing some ultimatum. Guilt is a prime way that therapy can be effectively stopped. Dont think of blame - just notice what is, the actual state of things, without the should be's, the guilt or the judgments of yourself.

Ross