It Never Gets Better Does It ?

[foreverborderline]

Been plagued with this Borderline crap for two decades now and here at 35 years old it gets worse by the day, I read up a lot on the disorder and in all that I have read and have been told it is supposed to get better with age but mine gets WORSE, so bad that suicide seems VERY attractive at times even though death is a huge OCD fear of mine. My addictions are worse and control my life, even when I am not using but drugs are the only way I know how to cope with my feelings, without using and drinking I am LOST and EMPTY. I am so sad and confused and NOBODY gets me, nobody understands what I am going through or how hard it is just to get out of bed. I HATE myself so much it is difficult to explain and I am convinced I will never stop feeling this way, I have felt this way for all of my life so why would it go away now. BPD and the addictions and conditions that accompany it never go away and only get worse and now I cannot use (even though I cannot stop ) because I will die, it really is confusing because I wanna die but do not at the same time. I just wanna vanish I guess, so I do not have to feel anymore. I hate BPD but cannot live without it, I am afraid to give up my disorder, it is all I know, and I know I need treatment but cannot let it go. Does anyone else experience it getting worse and worse with time ? You know, I hear lots of people calling themselves "former or recovered borderlines" and I think it is pure BS. I do not think recovery from BPD is possible at all, it is just this cruel joke God plays on those of us that suffer from this.

[notawallflower]

I almost got sucked into your negative vortex..until I saw it for what it is. Climb out of your hole and show a little dignity. That may sound harsh, but I suspect what you need is a good dose of tough love.

How do you know you can't get better if you have never tried? As for the age thing, well I think it's unique to each person and no two recoveries are going to follow an identical time line.

What I am picking up from your post is some all-or-none thinking. Lots of words like "never", "worse" and "hate", very extreme, dramatic, black and white.

Nobody understands..well there are over 1000 people on this board alone who may have a pretty good idea of the way that you feel.

Have you looked into any therapies?

[icu_baby]

Hi foreverborderline, is it possible that you actually have other disorders that you are not being treated for like bipolar or depression?

What medications are you on and what therapies have you tried and for how long?

You mention that it is hard to get out of bed, that is a symptom of depression and you may not recognize it.

[foreverborderline]

I almost got sucked into your negative vortex..until I saw it for what it is. Climb out of your hole and show a little dignity. That may sound harsh, but I suspect what you need is a good dose of tough love.

How do you know you can't get better if you have never tried? As for the age thing, well I think it's unique to each person and no two recoveries are going to follow an identical time line.

What I am picking up from your post is some all-or-none thinking. Lots of words like "never", "worse" and "hate", very extreme, dramatic, black and white.

Nobody understands..well there are over 1000 people on this board alone who may have a pretty good idea of the way that you feel.

Have you looked into any therapies?

I had to walk away from the computer and take a VERY LONG pause and deep breath before responding to you notawallflower because it is ignorant and callous posts and replies like this that make ones illness flare up. As the old saying goes, if you do not have anything nice to say then please do not say anything. I come here for support, not to be judged and hated on. When you said that I have all or nothing/black and white thinking I was like - "Duh, of course I do, that is the VERY NATURE of BPD " I know there are people on this board that feel very similar to me, you are not one of them by the way. What I meant by nobody understands me is that nobody that I know in real non online life understands me, this board is the ONLY support that I have, only place where I can go and not be judged and where people like me can listen and say " I understand how you feel, I feel that way too " I do not come here for advice because in my opinion I am unfixable and broken beyond repair, but I just want an ear. Let me say this last thing loud and clear, it is in my personal opinion that tough love DOES NOT WORK for people who are emotionally broken and damaged, it only HURTS THEM MORE. I know I need help but tough love is what has made me worse and is not for me, tough love really is hate in my opinion, has nothing to do with love. I think your approach here is all wrong and is not helpful.

As far as therapies go, I have not tried any recently, was in CBT before and on meds but have had trouble finding a doctor being I have no health insurance.

[foreverborderline]

Hi foreverborderline, is it possible that you actually have other disorders that you are not being treated for like bipolar or depression?

What medications are you on and what therapies have you tried and for how long?

You mention that it is hard to get out of bed, that is a symptom of depression and you may not recognize it.

Thanks Icu_baby for your insight. I have been diagnosed with BPD as well as Bipolar 2, OCD, as well as drug addiction. I may have others including maybe anti social or Histrionic Personality disorders but it has been so long since I have been in treatment. I have been in CBT therapy but never DBT , I was on meds ( Effexor,depakote,seroqoel,paxil,buspar,etc) but my health insurance was canceled and

my wife and I barely pay our rent with our social security checks so no money for care. I need long term care but have no way to get treatment thus far. I know I have depression, I guess I am so obsessed with the BPD and addictions that I lose sight of the other issues that may be going on.

[icu_baby]

Hi foreverborderline, is it possible that you actually have other disorders that you are not being treated for like bipolar or depression?

What medications are you on and what therapies have you tried and for how long?

You mention that it is hard to get out of bed, that is a symptom of depression and you may not recognize it.

Thanks Icu_baby for your insight. I have been diagnosed with BPD as well as Bipolar 2, OCD, as well as drug addiction. I may have others including maybe anti social or Histrionic Personality disorders but it has been so long since I have been in treatment. I have been in CBT therapy but never DBT , I was on meds ( Effexor,depakote,seroqoel,paxil,buspar,etc) but my health insurance was canceled and

my wife and I barely pay our rent with our social security checks so no money for care. I need long term care but have no way to get treatment thus far. I know I have depression, I guess I am so obsessed with the BPD and addictions that I lose sight of the other issues that may be going on.

I have bipolar I and I know that this can be treated effectively even if you also have borderline personality disorder. Bipolar II and anxiety go hand in hand. I see you have tried many anti-depressants and I am not a doctor but anti-depressants are not indicated for bipolar disorder. For me they sent me into an aggravated/agitated state and I developed mixed affective states. They never alleviated my depression. Have you ever tried a mood stablizer or anti-psychotic at all?

I am sorry to hear that you live in a country where you have to be rich in order to afford health care. That is a really sad situation.

[notawallflower]

I almost got sucked into your negative vortex..until I saw it for what it is. Climb out of your hole and show a little dignity. That may sound harsh, but I suspect what you need is a good dose of tough love.

How do you know you can't get better if you have never tried? As for the age thing, well I think it's unique to each person and no two recoveries are going to follow an identical time line.

What I am picking up from your post is some all-or-none thinking. Lots of words like "never", "worse" and "hate", very extreme, dramatic, black and white.

Nobody understands..well there are over 1000 people on this board alone who may have a pretty good idea of the way that you feel.

Have you looked into any therapies?

I had to walk away from the computer and take a VERY LONG pause and deep breath before responding to you notawallflower because it is ignorant and callous posts and replies like this that make ones illness flare up. As the old saying goes, if you do not have anything nice to say then please do not say anything. I come here for support, not to be judged and hated on. When you said that I have all or nothing/black and white thinking I was like - "Duh, of course I do, that is the VERY NATURE of BPD " I know there are people on this board that feel very similar to me, you are not one of them by the way. What I meant by nobody understands me is that nobody that I know in real non online life understands me, this board is the ONLY support that I have, only place where I can go and not be judged and where people like me can listen and say " I understand how you feel, I feel that way too " I do not come here for advice because in my opinion I am unfixable and broken beyond repair, but I just want an ear. Let me say this last thing loud and clear, it is in my personal opinion that tough love DOES NOT WORK for people who are emotionally broken and damaged, it only HURTS THEM MORE. I know I need help but tough love is what has made me worse and is not for me, tough love really is hate in my opinion, has nothing to do with love. I think your approach here is all wrong and is not helpful.

As far as therapies go, I have not tried any recently, was in CBT before and on meds but have had trouble finding a doctor being I have no health insurance.

Quote: in my opinion I am unfixable and broken beyond repair. **I'M SORRY BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU**. You do yourself more damage by believing this. I am very sorry to learn that you have no external supports. This is terrible to hear. It shouldn't be like this for anybody.

And it makes me furious to learn that people are doing it tough without meds or therapy, NO ONE should have to live like that. The healthcare system is Australia is brilliant and it should be the same everywhere.

I'm going to ignore all the reactive parts of your post because I know what my intention is and that's all that matters. Except for the part where you say that I don't understand how it feels..how can you know that? Certainly I've wondered if it's futile, if life's worth living with this b**** of an illness, etc. I just know that that's a downward spiral leading nowhere. I understand that knowing and feeling are two separate issues, but WE HAVE TO TRY TO BE POSITIVE..not saying "be" positive, only saying "TRY".

[foreverborderline]

Icu_baby, yes, I was not aware that anti depressants do not help Bipolar, but I was aware that mood stabilizers are what helps, and I have been on Depakote and Risperdal as well as seroquel which is a mood and anti psychotic med. The combo of Depakote,Effexor Xr,Seroquel, and Buspar really helped. Except the weight gain on the Depakote was troubling. I have searched for the right combo but as you know therapy is crucial with BPD and with losing my health insurance I have had few options and not on any meds or have a doctor or therapist for 17 months now.

notawallflower - I did not mean to say that you do not understand, from the way you were talking to me it sounded like you were not a BPD sufferer as I know that tough love is a concept that makes me very angry so hearing another borderline use words like tough love and such did not make sense to me, it still does not. I expect every person with BPD to feel like me, but guess it is not the case.

I get very angry and reactive when people tell me I am being overly dramatic and my feelings need to change, I just get so angry.

Thanks for trying to be helpful. Yes, I wish we had the brilliant health care system here in the USA but we do not and those with no money suffer.

I do not intend to "believe" that I am unfixable and broken beyond repair, we believe what we believe and cannot change who we are I guess. I do not think people can choose what to feel, I TRULY feel lost and like I only will fade away, but thanks for your support.

I shall try to think positive but things are very dark right now.

[beepeedee]

Hi, foreverborderline.

I'm just writing to say hang in there. I feel a bit of affinity because I wrote a similarly titled post in the introductions, then realized the introductions are under ***light topics**** and I'd better go back in and lighten my post up. It does get better, sometimes. What I'm learning with bpd is that it's cyclical, at least for me. I'll be okay, and then not okay, and then work my way back to okay, just to start the whole process all over again! I'm having a rough night myself but when I saw your post/conversation I just wanted to say hi and you're not alone. And I think we do get better but it sure doesn't always feel that way. A lot of the time there's struggle involved and that can be exhausting and dispiriting. Keep the faith. Believe in yourself and what you hold dear. Look for tiny successes if the big ones seem impossible right now (and I will try to do the same!)

[notawallflower]

I just know myself that **I'M** overly dramatic and have thinking errors as well. Trust me

I wish you NO emotional harm and I wish you were not suffering. But the things I said to you are the things I had to learn myself - incredibly painful life lessons - yes I felt hurt and angry, many many times, but I had to get past the anger to feel the hope. I hope that makes sense. I am a firm believer in opening every can of worms. Maybe I am different to other bpd sufferers..I'm not sure. I think we are all so different to one another that there can really be no comparison anyway.

For me tough love is about being forced to confront my faults head on and having boundaries forced upon me, I've had many more harsh posts (not here) and IRL confrontations to reach the understanding I'm at now with myself & the world around me. Still have work to do, still go into denial at times, still mess up. We all do. Not just bpd'ers.

I'll post some links that were helpful to me for you, in a little while (waiting on daughter's bus).

[notawallflower]

I do not intend to "believe" that I am unfixable and broken beyond repair, we believe what we believe and cannot change who we are I guess. I do not think people can choose what to feel..

My counselor says thoughts come BEFORE feelings, although I haven't made up my mind as to whether I agree with her on that one yet.

[icu_baby]

Notaflower, I am from Aussie too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are lucky to live in this country aren't we.

[icu_baby]

Icu_baby, yes, I was not aware that anti depressants do not help Bipolar, but I was aware that mood stabilizers are what helps, and I have been on Depakote and Risperdal as well as seroquel which is a mood and anti psychotic med. The combo of Depakote,Effexor Xr,Seroquel, and Buspar really helped. Except the weight gain on the Depakote was troubling. I have searched for the right combo but as you know therapy is crucial with BPD and with losing my health insurance I have had few options and not on any meds or have a doctor or therapist for 17 months now.

I really feel sorry for you that you have to suffer because you have no insurance. That is just so uncivilized for a country to do that to its own citizens...sorry I don't mean to offend you if you are a proud american but in australia its a fundamental human right to have access to healthcare.

Ok, practically speaking, is there a way you can get back on the depakote and cut out the effexoer maybe? Being on effexor made me suicidal.

I am on seroquel (only 50mg) and abilify which is the cousin of risperdal and is much better for mixed affective states which I feel you may be experiencing.

Please go back to your doctor and ask for a med change and stay on the regime for long enough for it to work.

I know the weight gain can be a problem but a lower doses can help and exercise too is great not only for combating weight gain but for depression and anxiety.

[notawallflower]

Notaflower, I am from Aussie too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are lucky to live in this country aren't we.

Very, extremely lucky!!

If you ever come to Melb let me know. :-)

I was in Sydney not that long ago..in the beautiful Hunter Valley.

[foreverborderline]

Icu_baby, yes, I was not aware that anti depressants do not help Bipolar, but I was aware that mood stabilizers are what helps, and I have been on Depakote and Risperdal as well as seroquel which is a mood and anti psychotic med. The combo of Depakote,Effexor Xr,Seroquel, and Buspar really helped. Except the weight gain on the Depakote was troubling. I have searched for the right combo but as you know therapy is crucial with BPD and with losing my health insurance I have had few options and not on any meds or have a doctor or therapist for 17 months now.

I really feel sorry for you that you have to suffer because you have no insurance. That is just so uncivilized for a country to do that to its own citizens...sorry I don't mean to offend you if you are a proud american but in australia its a fundamental human right to have access to healthcare.

Ok, practically speaking, is there a way you can get back on the depakote and cut out the effexoer maybe? Being on effexor made me suicidal.

I am on seroquel (only 50mg) and abilify which is the cousin of risperdal and is much better for mixed affective states which I feel you may be experiencing.

Please go back to your doctor and ask for a med change and stay on the regime for long enough for it to work.

I know the weight gain can be a problem but a lower doses can help and exercise too is great not only for combating weight gain but for depression and anxiety.

De

No problem in talking about how awful our health care system here in America is as I 100% agree. The only thing I did not like about Effexor was going off of it gives bad withdrawal, but come to think of it the suicidal thoughts were there but they always are so hard to know the difference. I do not have a doctor right now, need to get a new one. I need a lot of help and trying to do so, but many times the disorder tells me I do not want to get better so I often am ambivalent about recovery and treatment. That med combo sounds good, I just did not like the tired feeling or hangover that seroquel gave me.

[foreverborderline]

Thanks for your thoughtful post Beepeedee, it is a rough road but always helps to have support, even just a few words like you said to me helps. I also wish you good luck in your journey and not to give up, thanks so much.

Notawallflower - Yes I am familiar with the difference in thoughts and feelings but often is hard to tell the difference, if that makes any sense. We started out disagreeing you and I but I know that you were just trying to help in any way that you could so thank

you for trying to help and offer support. I have not stayed the course in treatment ever so I guess I never learned any of the lessons

or skills along the way. I hope to one day master my BPD and be clean and sober again and not need drugs,alcohol,cutting,or anything

to medicate my emotions. Hopefully that day comes sooner rather than later.

[notawallflower]

Thanks for your thoughtful post Beepeedee, it is a rough road but always helps to have support, even just a few words like you said to me helps. I also wish you good luck in your journey and not to give up, thanks so much.

Notawallflower - Yes I am familiar with the difference in thoughts and feelings but often is hard to tell the difference, if that makes any sense. We started out disagreeing you and I but I know that you were just trying to help in any way that you could so thank

you for trying to help and offer support. I have not stayed the course in treatment ever so I guess I never learned any of the lessons

or skills along the way. I hope to one day master my BPD and be clean and sober again and not need drugs,alcohol,cutting,or anything

to medicate my emotions. ***Hopefully that day comes sooner rather than later***.

Don't we all :rolleyes:

[foreverborderline]

Yup, I guess. :unsure:

[notawallflower]

ROSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

can has carrots, plz??

[iwonder]

Hi all. I found this topic very intereSting...reading some of the replies,i can relate to all of this. I personally feel that it is how u r feelinG at the time...i don't think u should b negative to that person. We all know that this is a really horrible illness, and at times it really overtakes u. I feel like this at the mo...i could end it all now...but i won't...i will keep fighting till the end however tough it gets. Love to all of u, Mirror

[icu_baby]

Icu_baby, yes, I was not aware that anti depressants do not help Bipolar, but I was aware that mood stabilizers are what helps, and I have been on Depakote and Risperdal as well as seroquel which is a mood and anti psychotic med. The combo of Depakote,Effexor Xr,Seroquel, and Buspar really helped. Except the weight gain on the Depakote was troubling. I have searched for the right combo but as you know therapy is crucial with BPD and with losing my health insurance I have had few options and not on any meds or have a doctor or therapist for 17 months now.

I really feel sorry for you that you have to suffer because you have no insurance. That is just so uncivilized for a country to do that to its own citizens...sorry I don't mean to offend you if you are a proud american but in australia its a fundamental human right to have access to healthcare.

Ok, practically speaking, is there a way you can get back on the depakote and cut out the effexoer maybe? Being on effexor made me suicidal.

I am on seroquel (only 50mg) and abilify which is the cousin of risperdal and is much better for mixed affective states which I feel you may be experiencing.

Please go back to your doctor and ask for a med change and stay on the regime for long enough for it to work.

I know the weight gain can be a problem but a lower doses can help and exercise too is great not only for combating weight gain but for depression and anxiety.

De

No problem in talking about how awful our health care system here in America is as I 100% agree. The only thing I did not like about Effexor was going off of it gives bad withdrawal, but come to think of it the suicidal thoughts were there but they always are so hard to know the difference. I do not have a doctor right now, need to get a new one. I need a lot of help and trying to do so, but many times the disorder tells me I do not want to get better so I often am ambivalent about recovery and treatment. That med combo sounds good, I just did not like the tired feeling or hangover that seroquel gave me.

If you have a the seroquel at night time say 2 hours before bed time it would not make you too drowsy the next day and you build up a tolerance to the drowsyness. It also depends on what dose you take.

Why are you scared of getting better? For me when I was depressed it was a comfort zone as I didn't have a care for anything or anyone in the world and I would just hide under my blanket. Now that I am getting better I know I have to keep fighting to get better, force myself to get out of bed, have a shower, do my studies and socialise. It is very hard work but trust be babe it is worth it.

[notawallflower]

Hi all. I found this topic very intereSting...reading some of the replies,i can relate to all of this. I personally feel that it is how u r feelinG at the time...i don't think u should b negative to that person. We all know that this is a really horrible illness, and at times it really overtakes u. I feel like this at the mo...i could end it all now...but i won't...i will keep fighting till the end however tough it gets. Love to all of u, Mirror

Reality checks are positive.

[foreverborderline]

Icu_baby - Thanks for the advice on the seroquel, I never really got over the drowsy side effects but maybe I can try again.

Why do I fear getting better ? Not really sure but there are several possibilities, I fear if I lose BPD then I will lose myself as I feel that I do not have BPD but that I AM BPD. I feel that BPD is my crutch in life and if I lose it then I lose my reasons for failure in life. I am VERY obsessed with psych conditions, I was in school last year studying psych and wanted to be a P doc and I loved learning about these things, was doing really well but fell off and now I just want to sleep and escape whether it be with drugs

or cutting, running away, etc. I have so many issues and fears and sadness moments that I do not know where to begin to get better.

[Ulrica]

I can relate to how things seems to get worse the older you get. I'm not where you are age wise (28 to be exact) but I feel that the older I have gotten, the worse I feel. Sure, on the outside things may have calmed down but I am still the same, just more cynical and disillusioned. I too, am obsessed with psych conditions. I always have been. I guess it might have to do with the fact that I feel at home with them whilst in the world at large I never do.

I feel it's hard to seperate ones BPD from who one is. My T keeps telling me "If your behaviour is causing YOU pain and hurt then it's something you should think about changing/learning how to deal with etc. If your behaviour is not causing you pain and hurt (but is something that others might have a hard time accepting eg. I am quite anti-social by nature, and I like it that way, if others do or not doesn't really matter) then there is no reason to change it." I think it's something to keep in mind. Something that has stuck with me is when I go to my T and say "This mindfullness crap doesn't work. I can only do it for a second or two then it drives me insane." Response: "Well, one second is always better than none." Which is true, something is always better than nothing.

I am going to try and not ramble anymore. I just wanted to say that I can relate to your original post, it struck a nerve deep within my soul. I'm not sure I will ever get better, but the hope that maybe, one day, I shall, is what keeps me fighting...

[foreverborderline]

Ulrica thanks for your post. Sounds like we have many of the same issues. I love Sweden by the way. The only thing is that I do not have a Therapist or Doc so left to deal with many if not all of my issues on my own and perhaps that is why I get worse and not better. I am trying to get help but it is hard with no health insurance here in the U.S., I am doing my best but with the ways I cope (drugs,cutting,etc) it is hard to get better, I seem to get worse and the emotional pain is often too much to bear but I keep trying

to see a light at the end of the tunnel.