Experiencing Very Distressing Intrusive Thoughts. :-(

[jonathan1981]

I've been suffering with OCD on and off since I was 16-years-old. I've had all sorts of obsessions and compulsions over the many years that I've been suffering with this vile illness. But by far the worst is a belief that something inside my mind, lets just call it OCD itself, can control my thoughts and feelings, blocking my ability to think and feel emotions, rendering me practically numb and blank inside my mind.

I know this isn't true, I know I have control over my mind, thoughts and emotions. However I still can't dispell the illusion that I'm not in control, that OCD controls me and can essentially tamper with my ability to think and feel at anytime.

I can't even begin to describe how awful and distressing this feeling is, that even my own basic thoughts are not under my control. It's terrible and I utterly hate feeling this way.

Can anyone provide any advice on coping with this problem? Can anyone relate to this in anyway?

Thanks for reading.

Jonathan

[carlylight1]

((((jonathon))) it sounds awful and i don't think i can offer much advice i'm afraid. are u on medication for OCD? does the dr know the extent of what you're going through? i'm just thinking there could be a better medication for u.

take care and i hope u feel better soon x

[jonathan1981]

Thank you Vivien.

I am on medication for OCD (prozac (fluoxetine) 40mg) which does help a little, but still I find myself severely affected by these awful intrusive thoughts sometimes.

I'm honestly not sure if my psychiatrist is aware of how severely they affect me. I haven't seen him in a while now, but I'll be seeing my GP soon to get referred back to my psychiatrist and I'll explain everything to him then.

Thank you again for your reply.

Jonathan x

[carlylight1]

that seems like a good idea to be referred back. perhaps even take a copy of what you wrote here to your gp to give him an idea that your current meds aren't doing much and hopefully you won't have to wait so long to see the psych. i know taking somethin written in has always helped me otherwise i just forget to tell them stuff and/or clam up! good luck x

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Lost

It sounds like this is really upsetting for you. I don't know if you are a meditator or not, but taking up a regular practice may help you a great deal. Something you notice with meditation is that you are not in control of what thoughts and feelings arise. You realise this because the aim is to keep bringing your attention back to your breath. Each time, the attention wanders off, and you may not even realise it has. When you eventually realise, you just note the thought and then bring the attention back again.

Even 'normal' people cannot control the way their thoughts jump around, though it may be that the nature of their thoughts is less distressing. This is because in those who suffer MH problems, automatic thoughts tend to be along threat and shame related lines. They very often involve thoughts of death, harming others or even disturbing sexual themes. But it is still the nature of mind to produce thoughts, images and urges.

If you have been meditating for some time (particularly mindfulness and insight meditations), you come to have a sense of 'distance' from these impulses and images. They may still produce a feeling in your body, but you are better able to choose whether to engage with them. Ultimately that is what is going on - thoughts arise, and its whether you engage with them or not that gives them their power. In OCD, there is the sense that all thoughts are extremely meaningful, 'bad' and must be either acted on or suppressed. It is as though the presence of the thought itself means something dreadful about the person, or that something dreadful will happen. For some this can come from childhood experiecnes of being scolded for something they have done, and confusing the action with the feeling that produced it. The person becomes hypervigilant to emotion and feels they must be controlled. But thoughts you try to control, only come back stronger - leading to this painful cycle. When the thoughts emerge again, it feels like they are truly "uncontrollable" - when in fact, its the act of controlling that causes them to be so intense.

One of the aims of treating OCD is to help the person to feel safe to simply allow in and experience their disturbing thoughts, whilst letting them see that nothing needs to be done about them. Its possible to experience the discomfort and allow that thought to be there, without controlling it, acting on it and so on. It can be painful at first, which is why again meditation is a good forum to try it in. It may take you some months to see any difference however but slowly you will see a reduction in frwquency and intensity of those thoughts. The catch is that you need to simply focus on the feelings, rather than attempt to get rid of them! Something of a paradox ...

Ross

[jonathan1981]

Thank you Ross, I'm not a meditator usually although when I was undergoing counselling not too long ago my counsellor referred me to "grounding meditation" as a method of keeping me focused on what was going on around me outside of my mind so that I wouldn't focus too much on my own thoughts and in particular these intrusive thoughts which are troubling me so. I do find that helpful, so try to think of that when I'm feeling at my most vulnerable to intrusive thoughts.

Thank you for reminding me that the best way to deal with such thoughts is to simply let them occur and pass over me without them causing me distress. I don't know how, but in all the panic of experiencing a relapse of my OCD I'd completely forgotten about that. I shall try not to interact with these intrusive thoughts, as by trying to control them it only gives them power over me. I've always found the best way to cope with them when they occur is to simply ignore them and think of other things, so I'll try to do just that from now on.

As I'm not really that familar with meditation could you provide some advice on how to actually go about meditating?

Thanks everyone for your support and advice.

Jonathan

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Johnathan

It depends how deeply you want to go with the meditations. Its very much a 'practice' thing - that is when the feelings come up for you, you actually begin the 'meditation' then and there, and bring your practice to the situation.

There are a number of resources out there that can help, though as I say it depends how far you want to go with it.

This is a sort of quick launch primer on the practice - note how he says to come back to the breath, noticing thoughts and coming back. Thats the important bit!

This is more of an in depth series of talks on how to really get into it.

http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/

The key thing with mindfulness is the attitude you bring to it. You are trying to develop acceptance, recpetivity and curiosity, but you will come up against the (automatic and involuntary) barriers of wanting the feeling to go away (aversion), pressuring yourself to feel a certain way or to get rid of feelings, as well as all sorts of automatic intrusions and feelings. Remember that you cannot pass or fail at this - the only aim is to keep coming back to the breath or the focus of meditation. Note that you are not trying to achieve any state or feeling, so that even if you do not feel relaxed, you havent done it wrong. The only aim is that attention - that can also mean attention to painful feelings.

After a few shots at doing it sitting down, you may find that you can begin to bring it to 'live action' situations. Personally I try to use it all the time, and also have a regular sitting practice, though it was important for me to go at a slow pace rather than force myself. I can get caught up in 'performance' and am something of a perfectionist!

Ross

[hummm_mabbe]

Its also worth noting that you wont be trying to shut out the thoughts - if anything you will be going in the opposite direction. This may seem counter to what you want to do, because usually we want to escape suffering. The problem is that in trying to escape, we get even more ensnared - these feelings are like quicksand. So what mindfulness is trying to do is stop the struggle, let you open to the painful feelings and discover something important about them. What you discover helps you to feel better with them, but feeling better is not actually the aim - its just a side effect! It really is one of those things you have to just try - the changes it can bring are very difficult to describe with words, as they are something you 'know' in a wordless, emotional way.

[carlylight1]

hi jonathon hope you're well. i think all ross's suggestions sound excellent i'm going to have a look at those links later too x

[jonathan1981]

Thank you Ross, that did help a little. I shall try to meditate as was shown in the video whenever I'm experiencing my intrusive thoughts and hopefully that will help me to cope with them better. :)

[jonathan1981]

hi jonathon hope you're well. i think all ross's suggestions sound excellent i'm going to have a look at those links later too x

Hey Vivien, I'm doing a little better thanks. I've made my appointment to see my GP on friday and I'm coping a little better with the intrusive thoughts in my own way, and now meditation seems like a helpful way to cope with them too. I still have times when they get to me, but I'm trying to stay positive.

Thank you. x

Jonathan

[Jinxsta]

I suffer with the thoughts severely too... i cannot put it any better than Ross... but want to re-iterate what he said... YOU ARE NOT IN CONTROL OF YOUR THOUGHTS, just in control of what you do with them.. if you were in control you wouldnt choose to have the disturbing ones right? You hold the power, because you control the action.

xxx

[Warrior Princess]

I've been suffering with OCD on and off since I was 16-years-old. I've had all sorts of obsessions and compulsions over the many years that I've been suffering with this vile illness. But by far the worst is a belief that something inside my mind, lets just call it OCD itself, can control my thoughts and feelings, blocking my ability to think and feel emotions, rendering me practically numb and blank inside my mind.

I wrote a poem similiar to this once, it wasn't really about MI but more addictions but it was the same theme. The feeling of the addiction/mi controlling you and having an identity of it's own. In some ways, thinking of it like this can be distressing, but in another way it can be helpful! If it's an outside entity, you can tell it to nick off! Get lost... GO! Even in a metophorical sense, I've found this a helpful technique in getting the control over my own thoughts back.

I know this isn't true, I know I have control over my mind, thoughts and emotions. However I still can't dispell the illusion that I'm not in control, that OCD controls me and can essentially tamper with my ability to think and feel at anytime.

it's true that we do have control over our own minds, I think I posted this concept in another thread recently. The mind is divided into three parts. Consious mind, sub consious and unconcious. The consious is all the things we DO control actively and think before we do. Like eating, speaking, typing, planning, shopping. then we have sub conscius which we have some limited active control over... This is where emotions belong. it's where instincts are, it's where the fight flight response is. It happens automatically but requires some effort and imput from the consious mind. then there is unconscious mind. That's where the dreams are, it's where beathing and heart beat are, digestion, sex drive etc. You don't have to think actively "Ok I will tell my heart to beat now" it just happens. One reason meditation and deep breathing works, is because automatic breathing occurs in the unconsious mind BUT you can also consciously control your breathing! You can lenghten it or shorten it. this is a tool that can be used because if you fire off one thing in the unconscious mind, you fire off all fo them basically! so controlling the breathing will help you control the other unconscious actions in there including pain. That's how they walk on hot coals etc.

With the mentally ill person, a lot of things get shoved down into unconscious mind that shouldn't be there, including emotions and negative thinking. It's true to say you really can't control it, but you can learn to control it by moving it back into the sub conscious or even the conscious mind. The deep breathing techniques help you master moving an unconcious action into conscious. make sense? Hope so!

I can't even begin to describe how awful and distressing this feeling is, that even my own basic thoughts are not under my control. It's terrible and I utterly hate feeling this way.

Can anyone provide any advice on coping with this problem? Can anyone relate to this in anyway?

Thanks for reading.

Jonathan

I relate to it very well! I've felt so out of control at many times in my life and hated the feeling. I was also very against the whole meditation thing. Didn't want to be some yoga freak sitting around like a buddah. But I kept myself open to trying new things. I just use very basic and simple techniques and they do help. None of us have to walk on hot coals.... we just need to breathe!

Hope the suggestions that Hmmmmm mabbe have made help. I am going to review that video myself!

Cheers,

WP

[Jinxsta]

I've been suffering with OCD on and off since I was 16-years-old. I've had all sorts of obsessions and compulsions over the many years that I've been suffering with this vile illness. But by far the worst is a belief that something inside my mind, lets just call it OCD itself, can control my thoughts and feelings, blocking my ability to think and feel emotions, rendering me practically numb and blank inside my mind.

I wrote a poem similiar to this once, it wasn't really about MI but more addictions but it was the same theme. The feeling of the addiction/mi controlling you and having an identity of it's own. In some ways, thinking of it like this can be distressing, but in another way it can be helpful! If it's an outside entity, you can tell it to nick off! Get lost... GO! Even in a metophorical sense, I've found this a helpful technique in getting the control over my own thoughts back.

I know this isn't true, I know I have control over my mind, thoughts and emotions. However I still can't dispell the illusion that I'm not in control, that OCD controls me and can essentially tamper with my ability to think and feel at anytime.

Thanks wp, thats very insightful.

xxx

it's true that we do have control over our own minds, I think I posted this concept in another thread recently. The mind is divided into three parts. Consious mind, sub consious and unconcious. The consious is all the things we DO control actively and think before we do. Like eating, speaking, typing, planning, shopping. then we have sub conscius which we have some limited active control over... This is where emotions belong. it's where instincts are, it's where the fight flight response is. It happens automatically but requires some effort and imput from the consious mind. then there is unconscious mind. That's where the dreams are, it's where beathing and heart beat are, digestion, sex drive etc. You don't have to think actively "Ok I will tell my heart to beat now" it just happens. One reason meditation and deep breathing works, is because automatic breathing occurs in the unconsious mind BUT you can also consciously control your breathing! You can lenghten it or shorten it. this is a tool that can be used because if you fire off one thing in the unconscious mind, you fire off all fo them basically! so controlling the breathing will help you control the other unconscious actions in there including pain. That's how they walk on hot coals etc.

With the mentally ill person, a lot of things get shoved down into unconscious mind that shouldn't be there, including emotions and negative thinking. It's true to say you really can't control it, but you can learn to control it by moving it back into the sub conscious or even the conscious mind. The deep breathing techniques help you master moving an unconcious action into conscious. make sense? Hope so!

I can't even begin to describe how awful and distressing this feeling is, that even my own basic thoughts are not under my control. It's terrible and I utterly hate feeling this way.

Can anyone provide any advice on coping with this problem? Can anyone relate to this in anyway?

Thanks for reading.

Jonathan

I relate to it very well! I've felt so out of control at many times in my life and hated the feeling. I was also very against the whole meditation thing. Didn't want to be some yoga freak sitting around like a buddah. But I kept myself open to trying new things. I just use very basic and simple techniques and they do help. None of us have to walk on hot coals.... we just need to breathe!

Hope the suggestions that Hmmmmm mabbe have made help. I am going to review that video myself!

Cheers,

WP

[Warrior Princess]

Hey, if anyone is interested in this psyche and how it works stuff, I might start a thread on it. What do you think? I really need to review it. The counsellor that taught it all to me is coming here on the 24th. He's been one of the most helpful counsellors I've ever had because he explains WHY I am this way which gives me insight into what to do about it all! He even explains why I have Multiple personalities.

It's not the final word on things really, but the concepts it brings up are interesting and helpful. I don't think there is a final word on things. But if it's helpful... use it!

WP

[jonathan1981]

Thankfully I've been feeling a lot better recently and the intrusive thoughts having been bothering me much at all really. I'm not sure if it's because I've read some helpful ocd related articles online or because I've recently had my meds increased, it's probably a combination of these. I'm just so glad to be feeling better. :)

[carlylight1]

Thankfully I've been feeling a lot better recently and the intrusive thoughts having been bothering me much at all really. I'm not sure if it's because I've read some helpful ocd related articles online or because I've recently had my meds increased, it's probably a combination of these. I'm just so glad to be feeling better.

yay! i'm pleased for u!

keep it up u r obviously doing something right.

take care xxx

ps i'd add u on facebook but i'm no longer on it (mental health reasons! long story...)

[jonathan1981]

Thank you for your kind, supportive words.

Feel free to add me on facebook if you ever do get back on there by the way.

Take care.

Jonathan xxx