angel tears Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Hi I have always had problems with eye contact but that has recently gotten better with friends and people who i think dont generally expect too much from me, its like i dont have the level of intimacy like required in a romantic relationship. I have gotten better since i started therapy but i have noticed that when it comes to men who i like and who like me, i struggle with eye contact and i am not quite sure why???...., it is baffling me. I am ok with eye contact in say a chat or brief fleeting eye contact but any kind of lingering eye contact that is required in romance for intimacy reasons i really struggle with. I have noticed that i feel shy and there is some fear in there but i haven't been able to understand anymore yet than that. I have to keep looking away to be comfortable and thats not helping me to gain trust or feeling wanted because i know that this guy really likes me. Can anyone relate to this or throw any light on it?. I am anxious by nature due to a lot of abuse throughout my life xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penny74 Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Many people struggle with eye contact for many different reasons, I have 2 boys with autistic spectrum disorder and they both struggle a great deal with maintaining any kind of eye contact but it also afects people with conditions such as bpd, pd and a whole range of others that fall into this kind of catagory, I personally think it's partly down to trust, and the fact that you don't feel confident in yourself but I'm sure there's a million and one different reasons for it. I can't look into a persons eyes never have been able to I concentrate on the forehead instead so it looks like I'm looking at them, I struggle with any kind of relationship when intamcy is involved and my partner knows this so it's not a huge issue in a way but i can see where it can become a problem for others who are trying to build a relationship from scratch. I can't really advise much aside talking with the person you're close too if it becomes an issue and hope they understand, but remember you're not alne in it Penny xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 I dont know if maybe a little bit of technicality might help Angel? Looking at evolutionary psychology, most mammals have the concepts of submission and dominance. If a submissive animal looks at a dominant one, that being looked at is often taken as a sign of challenge to its authority, which can cause a fight. Humans are exactly the same, and there is an argument that depression is an 'evolutionary switch', which in people that are badly treated or made to feel like the submissive person within their family / social group, the emotional state of depression is what comes along to ensure their continued submission, so that they arent continually butting heads with people that might easily harm them. Depression takes the fight out of you, and makes it easier to adopt that submissive position. Eye contact is one part of all this. Another reason, and this is perhaps the mechanics of how it works, is because of a hormone called Phenylethylamine. When one human looks at another, there is a small release of this hormone. Its actually a 'warm and fuzzy' hormone when experiecned in relation to people we like, but is felt in a very aversive way if experienced with people we dont know or dont like. It leads to the realease of adrenaline and stress hormones, and is the reason behind the "what the f*** you staring at " reaction. So difficulty with making eye contact is, hormonally, part and parcel of feeling anxious or depressed. One thing to be aware of is that the uncomfortable feeling you get in your eyes when you make eye contact, isnt actually visible to other people. It just FEELS like it is. You can carry on making eye contact as long as you are able to tolerate the sensation, and so often if you can tolerate a discomfort, after a while it decreases. Anyways, appreciate that was a bit psycho-biology class, maybe not to everyones tastes. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel tears Posted October 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Hiya ross and penny, thanks for the advice . Hmmm has made me think then...... maybe i am struggling with the feeling of the warm and fuzzy feeling because it is with a person that i like but at the same time i struggle with intimacy....... I seem to be better in fight mode because i have a bee in my bonnet about sticking up for myself and others when i see them being bullied!, then again thinking about it, is it possible to have the warm and and fuzzy feelings and then a switch to the fight or flight ones then creating confusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Or maybe 'love' is a concept that is bound up with abusiveness for you? The moment you feel 'love' type feelings, perhaps you also anticipate being hurt? When I hear the word love, I feel strangled and suffocated, because that was my experience of being 'loved' - needing to be what this other person demanded of me, not being allowed to be myself. So I dont like the word love. But also, it may simply be the fear of rejection coming up. Fear of anything will always prod the fight or flight response, so maybe its just fear of rejection? Just ideas... Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floyd Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 i avoid eye contact at all times... its always created problems since chilhood its lead to bullying abuse and feeling of uncomfortableness... i only make eye contact with my girlfriend shes says my eyes were the first thing she fell for... this made me feel good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel tears Posted October 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Hiya I do find that love to me has been mixed into so much abuse that yes ross, that is quite possible and i am afraid of being hurt too but i guess thats natural too after what i have been through , i will however try to work on it. I just want to get to the point where i can stop running away, tis frustrating me. My son has helped me with love, dont take me wrong i really struggled with him as a baby and he lives with his dad but he is teaching me about love and how he just likes mummy the way she is and thats helping me so much now that i am not so frightened of him rejecting me. Men however are a different kettle of fish Ross - Do you even hate to hear the word "love"?, do you find it frustrating?. Hope i am not prodding you too much. Just tell me if i am hun xxx pinky - I am glad that you can feel comfortable around your gf, thats a good start :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Yeah I do - when GF's in the past have brought it up, it feels like a demand or an expectation. I just feel guilt and powerlessness, and then I guess that makes me angry as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel tears Posted October 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 What is love - Take that This topic has made me feel emotional ((((everyone)))) (((ross))) xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Fankoooooo ((angel)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel tears Posted October 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 you are welcome ross :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 i can relate a lot to this.i think sometimes with me its confidence.i dont like people looking at me...makes me uncomftable. With my ex i found it very easy to look into his eyes...i trusted him and felt at ease with him. sorry i cant shed any light!but just wanted u to know i can relate xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel tears Posted October 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Thanks Dani ((((dani)))), its good to know that we are not alone in this xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly_el_nino Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 This thread has got me thinking a little bit... and sorry to hijack it temporarily, but I wanted to know what people are normally supposed to do when talking to someone? I used to look people in the eye when talking to them when I was younger, but it does feel uncomfortable after a even a split second. I tend to watch peoples mouths when they speak to me now. Do people constantly look one another in the eye when they talk? or do you look at other parts of a persons face? Sounds like a wierd question I know.... I tend to feel a bit like the submissive person that Hummm_mabbe was talking about, perhaps this is why I do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 I THINK I read that 60% eye contact is normal for man-to-woman, 40% is normal for man-to-man, maybe 70-80 is normal for woman to woman. Though I may have imagined half of that. I guess the eyes sort of roam around - but the key is that for people for whom its not uncomfortable, its not something they think about. Its only because its so physically uncomfortable for us that we even consider the question. In many ways, getting past it also involves 'letting the discomfort be'. Other people cant usually 'see' the feeling, so if you like you can experiment with a bit more eye contact. Just dont go uber-opposite and start staring Sometimes eye contact can lead to dissociatey feelings for me though, I think its a matter of a little at a time and also understanding the source of the anxiety. For me its the fear they will see some 'banned' emotion on my face, like anger, impatience or sexual attraction. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly_el_nino Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 I THINK I read that 60% eye contact is normal for man-to-woman, 40% is normal for man-to-man, maybe 70-80 is normal for woman to woman. Though I may have imagined half of that. I guess the eyes sort of roam around - but the key is that for people for whom its not uncomfortable, its not something they think about. Its only because its so physically uncomfortable for us that we even consider the question. In many ways, getting past it also involves 'letting the discomfort be'. Other people cant usually 'see' the feeling, so if you like you can experiment with a bit more eye contact. Just dont go uber-opposite and start staring Sometimes eye contact can lead to dissociatey feelings for me though, I think its a matter of a little at a time and also understanding the source of the anxiety. For me its the fear they will see some 'banned' emotion on my face, like anger, impatience or sexual attraction. Ross So you never look someone in the eye for longer than a certain amount of time in one go? Just glances every now and then? How long would be considered staring them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Oh dear I feel like Ive boiled it down to a science and so made it a thing to get in a tizz over I mean, you are probably doing just fine, those numbers are just what is 'observed' in your average social interaction. Like I said, the only reason you will feel anything is even abnormal is because of the uncomfortable feelings that eye contact will give you. Chances are other people dont notice. Once you work on other things, like your depression or anxiety, this will be an issue that goes away on its own, so its better to work on the core of why you are depressed or anxious, than to get yourself additionally worked up over whether your eye contact times are officially acceptable I know that is MASSIVELY an easier said than done thing, I guess I just dont want to make you feel even more pressured to reach some theoretical ideal, when you are probably just fine as you are (even if you dont feel that way). Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly_el_nino Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Oh dear I feel like Ive boiled it down to a science and so made it a thing to get in a tizz over I mean, you are probably doing just fine, those numbers are just what is 'observed' in your average social interaction. Like I said, the only reason you will feel anything is even abnormal is because of the uncomfortable feelings that eye contact will give you. Chances are other people dont notice. Once you work on other things, like your depression or anxiety, this will be an issue that goes away on its own, so its better to work on the core of why you are depressed or anxious, than to get yourself additionally worked up over whether your eye contact times are officially acceptable I know that is MASSIVELY an easier said than done thing, I guess I just dont want to make you feel even more pressured to reach some theoretical ideal, when you are probably just fine as you are (even if you dont feel that way). Ross lol, don't worry I won't be checking my watch while I look someone in the eye. Was just curious as it was something I had thought years ago, probably well before my depression. I haven't really thought about it of late. Although I do know when I'm really bad I just dont want to look people in the face at all. So it all makes sense. Was just musing about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel tears Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Hi I have found that my eye contact issues have gotten better since i have been doing therapy, most of the time now i dont notice unlike i used to so i must be working through some issues and slowly i hope decreasing my depression. Need to keep working on my anxiety though. I tried more eye contact tonight just out of interest and i found that i was looking more than the other person lol, i am gonna stop worrying about this so much before i become a stare bear :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea5 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Hi I have always had problems with eye contact but that has recently gotten better with friends and people who i think dont generally expect too much from me, its like i dont have the level of intimacy like required in a romantic relationship. I have gotten better since i started therapy but i have noticed that when it comes to men who i like and who like me, i struggle with eye contact and i am not quite sure why???...., it is baffling me. I am ok with eye contact in say a chat or brief fleeting eye contact but any kind of lingering eye contact that is required in romance for intimacy reasons i really struggle with. I have noticed that i feel shy and there is some fear in there but i haven't been able to understand anymore yet than that. I have to keep looking away to be comfortable and thats not helping me to gain trust or feeling wanted because i know that this guy really likes me. Can anyone relate to this or throw any light on it?. I am anxious by nature due to a lot of abuse throughout my life xxxx I was abused from a young age so can understand where your coming from. I hated giving eye contact to anyone incase they took that as a meaning for them to say its ok to abuse me. I also realised that when i gave eye contact i was more involved in the individual person which frightened me. To get over it i started staring at a mirror mad i know but the more i stared at the mirror the more confident i became as i started loving the person who i saw and was therefore able to look at oters who saw the same but without the abuse. I hope this helps just alittle knowledge from me personally xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel tears Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Thanks carmel, thats really good advice. Thanks for sharing it with us (((carmel))). I will definately try to look at myself more as thats still a problem for me. I think also what you said about being afraif to look incase you are abused is a definate for me too, it frightens me to death that they might see this in my eyes xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea5 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Thanks carmel, thats really good advice. Thanks for sharing it with us (((carmel))). I will definately try to look at myself more as thats still a problem for me. I think also what you said about being afraif to look incase you are abused is a definate for me too, it frightens me to death that they might see this in my eyes xx Dont you worry you will be ok im sure of it dont let the abuser beat you you deserve better thats what i keep telling myself xxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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