Villan Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hello, I am starting to look into this for anxiety stuff, mostly to help with GAD type anx problems, I heard about it in conjunction with the mindfullness course i have just started doing... Basically just wondered if anyone here has any experience of ACT at all...? From what I have read, ACT & mindfullness go together quite well... Anyhoo - thanks for reading... xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsmother21 Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hi there I've done Mindfulness as part of my DBT therapy and that does help me to become aware of what I'm feeling anxious about but I've not heard of this other ACT therapy - it sounds really good and if you find out more, can you let me know? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hi hun, I don't know about this but wanted to offer you my support anyway. Lots of love Rose x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted November 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 thanks both *hugs* much love back attcha xxx I will of course share what i find out - there is loadsa theory on the net - and i get the basic idea - just kinda wanna see if anyone has actually tried it and if it helped... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hi chit I havent had it, but have read a fair bit about it. It has a very different approach to most therapies in that its whole ethos is that you stop 'doing' anything about feelings or trying to change or get rid of them. The first step of it is to "recognise that 'doing' is part of the problem itself", and so it encourages you to use that very mindfulness oriented 'non-doing' approach. It requires that very open acceptance that you have worked a lot on. It recognises that itself is paradoxical, because people are likely to end up in a sort of loop where they think "ok so if I accept this, it will go away right?", or "if I do nothing about it, it will go away right?" sort of thing, not realising this is going back into the 'doing' loop, just using acceptance as another technique. So it takes a lot of practice to truly accept the feelings without trying to get rid of them as the desire to be free of them can remain in very subtle ways. ACT calls this 'the agenda', e.g. an agenda to always be calm, confident and poised, and observes how ANY new approach, even if its to give up the agenda, ends up being used automatically in direct service of that agenda. The 'opening up to' part of the the therapy will essentially request you to go and be in the anxiety provoking situations, and do nothing to try to change the anxiety. No management strategies or breathing - just open up to it and feel it completely. An example of 'the agenda' kicking in will be when you catch yourself thinking "Oh so if I open up to it, then it will go away?". Its a process that opens up to some pretty deep things and reasoning, which you are no stranger to. Its also recognises that emotional truths and 'the place you call recovery' will be something very deep and wordless, and leaves you to try to find your own wordless answers through feeling. Thats essentially the first stage, the next two stages involve choosing an action to take based on deep values you uncover in yourself through this opening up and through therapy. That action may well be one which provokes anxiety, but now you are acting according to those deep values. Ive taken on some of its ideas, basically the opening fully to things. Its hard, because I really do find myself caught back in 'the agenda' very often. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted November 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 yeah Ross, I am working on the whole acceptance rather than distraction and suppression thing atm with, kinda like you, varying success and i wondered if actually following some kind of more formal approach (along with the mindfullness) would help me... actually i was also kinda hoping you would reply cos I just KNEW you would know something about this stuff... i have spent the past 15 month reconnecting with feelings and trying to accept them as they are - good and bad ones and i have had great success with that - the feelings are way less severe than they ever were... its just the anx i was stuck with... mostly feelings as described in GAD... and i have found that CBT just doesnt work cos i dont believe it is possible for me to "talk my way out of feelings" i HAVE to experience them, accept them... just think i need a lil help to do this... my anx levels are way down, but i can still feel it gnawing away at me sometimes, i do the mindful breathing stuff and that really helps, and also try mostly to focus in the here and now, but again the anx does keep creeping back, and i was reading that ACT (when practised and worked at) could offer a more long term solution... anyhoo... maybe i will see what else i can mooch here and on t'internet and give it a whirl - nothing to lose xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hi there Yeah I had the same issues with CBT, I just felt like they were words and my body just went "and? Is that the best you've got?". I always feel a bit guilty giving you advice, as I know you know tons and have tried as many things, so I hope this doesnt come across like me ramming stuff down your throat. I dunno if you have tried this as well, you prolly have - but something I think ACT talks about, and comes up in a lot of anxiety literature, is identifying thoughts or feelings about your anxiety. These can make it worse, so for my example I have this feeling that if others see me anxious, they will think I am weird, or maybe weak, and so reject me or attack me. All of that just sits there like a lump of sensations, as opposed to a fully formed thought. But part of it all for me is sort of accepting that possibility too - the fear of my fear if you like, as well as the fear itself. So in social situations where I might feel anxious, I try to be aware of how my brain is worrying about looking anxious, or worrying about what I am saying 'wrong' that might lead to rejection. I know GAD has a lot of these too - for some folks its a belief they will have a heart attack, but I reckon it could be anything TBH. Finding those deeper fears-of-fear may also be helpful to you, if you havent already done all that. Its still basically mindfulness, but you are just ever-increasing the amount of things you include in it. I think something you said there is important - "my anx levels are way down, but i can still feel it gnawing away at me sometimes". This might annoy you to hear, but that is what you may need to accept. If you had said that to me a few months back, that would have made me feel angry and frustrated, like admitting defeat. But that wanting the anxiety to go away, and still finding it there, that is what ACT would call the agenda, and that giving up the agenda to remove that residual anxiety is paradoxically the thing that will help, if that makes sense ... its all a bit wibble and zen ... Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted November 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 LMAO @ "wibble and zen" just wanted to say that in most of your advice to me - there is usually a different angle or spin or whatever that makes me go "hmmmmmm" and gives me something to think about... and i also think yuo told me about mindfullness a gazillion times before i figured there was something in it for me... i get there eventually ! yes i have seen some of the worksheets where they ask about ALL the feeling brought up with the anx - physical and emotional and the knock on effect that teh anx can have in, like you explained the fear of people seeing your anx etc... i think that expansion could help me... i know that fear and anx ARE important feelings - they keep us on our toes and get us out of danger - i like a bit of social anxiety cos it usually keeps my awareness in check so when i go out, i dont make a tw*t of myself, but i will give you an example of one of the annoying ones i am experiencing at the moment... my car is due for MOT - i have the money to fix it if there is a problem, i have the money to get another one if it is condemned, i also have a car to use if it takes longer than a day to fix - i work in the motor trade it really isnt an issue at all - SO WHY AM I ANXIOUS I think something you said there is important - "my anx levels are way down, but i can still feel it gnawing away at me sometimes". This might annoy you to hear, but that is what you may need to accept. If you had said that to me a few months back, that would have made me feel angry and frustrated, like admitting defeat. But that wanting the anxiety to go away, and still finding it there, that is what ACT would call the agenda, and that giving up the agenda to remove that residual anxiety is paradoxically the thing that will help, if that makes sense ... This bit i am going to go away and think about for a bit cos i also think it is important.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hmm well, I am not sure exactly the right thing to do, but at the mo I am taking a number of different approaches. On the one hand, I am trying to jncrease my tolerance of emotions and feelings that I dont like or are disturbing, you know sort of the distress tolerance thing of DBT. So sort of accepting that this feeling is here, and may well re-appear many times, and that fighting it and constantly hanging onto this idea of "somehow, if I only I could figure it out, I could make it all go away" actually makes me feel worse, so just opening to it, but without the sense of "when is this going to just GO?". Removing any element of 'time' from it, eg 'this has always happened in the past and I want it gone in the future', its just 'this is happening now'. So thats one take, and its the one I am trying to bring to bear with the fear of the judgement of others. I realised that there is nothing I can do to make sure people always respond well, and that I will always make mistakes. So rather than trying to control that, I realised that really what I am afraid of the horrible sensations that other's anger or disapproval brings. Rather than saying "oh why should I care about others views?", I acknolwedge I DO care, and thats why it hurts - but that also its part of life, part of me. So the feelings will come, and when they do, to accept them even though they may be overwhelming and painful. But at least that way i dont feel like a prisoner of my fear. Thats the idea anyway, but it can be helpful if you do the other part too. The other part is understanding why it hurts so much, and feeling those feelings that lie right at the most senstive, painful point. For me there is this ball of sadness and desolation that I dont understand. I dont know what it applies to, but I know it is there and hugely powerful. So I am also trying to penetrate that inner core as well, really emotionally connect with what it is that scares me, and why my body feels so painful when someone is angry with me. So those are the two threads Im pursuing at the moment. Oh and a third, which is embracing powerlessness. I realised that feeling powerless is one of the last things I have been unwilling to let in and accept, and that is what makes me cling to wanting things to be a certain way. Letting that powerlessness in feels massively relieving, and sometimes it can lead to new perspectives. Again its a case of ever-expandning the field of things you hold in that awareness, to include all the things you are fighting against, wanting, pursuing. Its all very non-attachmentey, which may not be everyones cup of tea what with being a buddhist thing, but it seems to be helping me feel more balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 I just read that back and verbally it makes next to no sense, I think watching too many episodes of LOST has scrambled my brain. 4 8 15 16 23 44 Chagned the last number, you know - just in case ... Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted November 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 hmmm dunno what it means about me but it made sense to me - but then my boss has just pissed me off so my brain is fried... well... apart from the lost stuff cos i never watched that so i am gonna let that post just go straight over my head ! i found some more worksheets re ACT and anx and i am gonna give them a whirl... at the very least it will help me more with acceptance and as yuo said, embracing powerlessness and coming to terms with the fact that i dont understand everything... *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 hey chips i think a lot of my therapy in group involved acceptance and commitment - we had to commit to a minimum of a year to even be considered for the group and i came away accepting my problems - theres some stuff that may never change, like my social anxiety for example, so the best i can do is manage that. i used to HATE this idea, refused to accept it. it had to be all or nothing. even using my headfones to allow me to get to therapy had me in a stew - i couldnt see that that was managing it. acceptance is a huge part of recovery i believe. we dont have to accept that things will never change - thats more like resignation i think - but we can accept that some things are what they are. rambling. i just wanted to let u know ive read ur post lol ur doin sooooo well chips crumbs loves chips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted November 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 chips loves crumbs i think everything comes back to the serenity prayer thingie change the things you can, accept what you cant and pray for the wisdom to know the difference... summat like that... its why i like to focus on progress not perfection... good god imagine if we all became like stepford wives !!! LMAO... xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 yayyyyyy stepford wives LOL i like this - progress not perfection when u mentioned it on my status last wk i have kept it in my head and i make a conscious effort to remember it when im in me perfectionism frame of mind (which is most of the time lately ) an ye its not about accepting or not accepting - its all middle ground :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior Princess Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 Hi Chitma, I've basically just started ACT. Two sessions in. I've also done DBT and mindfulness. So far with ACT she has taken me through looking at my feelings as if they were my hands. if my hands are just in front of my face, I can't see or communicate with her, but if they are in my lap, they are still there but at this distance, I can communicate quite well with her. I believe the excercise was to show me that I don't have to toss out those feelings, hide them, or push them away but rather accept them as part of me, yet not let them cover or overwhelm me by being too prominant in my face. We also started looking at positive aspects of who I am. Helping others was the hugest pile of cards for me. when I looked at the different aspects before me I realized that this would be a person I'd want to get to know. It was about accepting myself for all my strong points, rather than focusing on all the bad points. I've found it helpful so far but it's a bit early to really give you a full assessment of it. It's a relatively new therapy apparently. WP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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