Bipolar And Bpd

[sanctuary]

I think I am bipolar.

I know I have BPD.

Is it possible to have both?

I have been through 3 years of individual and group therapy, have ended group and now on DBT for at least 6 months if not a year.... but I still feel something is missing or something has been overlooked. A psychiatrist specifically said she did not believe I had bipolar and gave me the diagnosis of BPD which fitted well with what I had believed myself. However, because I was so adamant that BPD was the label to explain all my worries, I think I may have thrown her completely off the scent of anything else!!

I get manic, frequently as part of my BPD, however some episodes are 'different' in as much as I feel utterly indestructable.

I spend recklessly, now that to me seems to be covered also by both conditions.

I engage in risky behaviour, again typical BPD but with the risky behaviour also sometimes comes the feeling of invincibility.

Thoughts?

[Data]

It is possible to have both and I've read that 10% of people with BPD also have bipolar.

I say this with caution because I've never met you, Sanctuary. However, I think people overuse the word 'manic'. I've seen people experiencing mania, and its scary. You can be anxious or excited and thats not the same as being manic.

[sanctuary]

Well data that actually confirms my thoughts.... people do get scared when I am episodically manic. Though no one actually tells me until much much later. I have scaled buildings, driven at ridiculous speeds on the motorway completely drunk on spirits. And 'superhuman' feelings take over.

All of this is a mess. I just want to live a creative life, lived at ease, away from all the scary, impulsive and dangerous situations I have found myself in.

Think ive said too much. Fuck it.

[Data]

Please don't take my words as confirmation of anything. A lot of conditions can be scary to people around you. Your doctor is the person to discuss your diagnosis with.

[sanctuary]

you sound afraid data, are you?

[canadianbumble]

I get very manic too and very high low and high illusions of grandure r5eckless etc. not diagnosed as bipolar though told it has ben suspected . however told the medicatuion woulkd realy be almost same so no much needto difgerentiatiate but yes one can have both. . Don't be scared though cause it can be managed. xx Bumble on a rumbel to day. actually having a manic one because I didn't take me meds naughty I know but I do luv it sometimes yey!!!

[sanctuary]

Bumble on a rumble i like it, thanks, management is key... it's not like it's going to disappear whatever it is... but the manic delusions of grandeur are so very addictive... i think. Afterall I can achieve a mentally monumental amount of tasks and my organisational skills go into overdrive, I do seem to be somewhat superpowered but to me it's a good thing sometimes.... when that manicness is powered into good effect I can be outstanding. Really. Who would want to completely diregard that? xx

[Russell]

I think I am bipolar............

I get manic, frequently as part of my BPD, however some episodes are 'different' in as much as I feel utterly indestructable.

I spend recklessly, now that to me seems to be covered also by both conditions.

I engage in risky behaviour, again typical BPD but with the risky behaviour also sometimes comes the feeling of invincibility.

Thoughts?

I suspect I have the same combo. I am just coming down from another manic(ish) moment where I take on loads of jobs fixing laptops, games consoles and anything else I can get my hands on. I have to keep stupidly busy and constantly in 5th gear. I love getting all the stuff done but hate coming back down to earth and feeling knackered and have things left over to do but unable to do them. My family see it happening but just roll with it as they dont quite know what to make of it and they know I enjoy the feeling of being useful/invincible at the time Happy days huh :D

[toaster]

hey sanc

what u have said matches a lot of what i have been thru. i have scared the people around me whilst manic, believing i am invincible, feeling indestructible but whilst feeling like i may explode with the elation. and my mania consists of mad, insightful thoughts, which can help with the bpd but sometimes we get lost in the thinking (read my signature here - i have thoughts like that + 86908787987678976 going round in my head...) - i struggle to keep up wif the thinking and bounce from one creative idea to the next. and each episode, im more manic than the previous, which can happen if its left untreated, which mine has been.

i have been dx'ed bpd at 18 and bi-polar, when i was 21, alongside the bpd. i was more of a hypomanic, irritable bi-polar then. now its all grandiose etc.

do u have a psych now? what u have said here, you should talk to them. and ask someone who knows u well to go with you to describe what u r like, this is what my new psych asked me to do, steph will be seeing my doc next time. sometimes we withold info or play it down, either consciously or unconsciously.

if you are bi .-polar it could well get to a ;point where the mania interferes with your work and life if it isn't treated with the right meds. this has happened to me...i love the mania but im at a point where im up for 3 days, brain wont shut up but im too exhausted to do owt.

and of course, we always have to come down.

hope u get it sorted xx

[unlucky]

When I got diagnosed with BPD, my shrink told me that BPD is just a form of bipolar disorder, and that they are looking at getting rid of the diagnosis of BPD and making it into one in some parts.

I don't know how true this is, but it has occurred to me that seeing as BPD seems to be diagnosed at an earlier age than bipolar, that perhaps BPD could be the onset of bipolar disorder?

I have certain symptoms that don't appear under BPD but that do appear under bipolar, but who knows?

[toaster]

When I got diagnosed with BPD, my shrink told me that BPD is just a form of bipolar disorder, and that they are looking at getting rid of the diagnosis of BPD and making it into one in some parts.

I don't know how true this is, but it has occurred to me that seeing as BPD seems to be diagnosed at an earlier age than bipolar, that perhaps BPD could be the onset of bipolar disorder?

I have certain symptoms that don't appear under BPD but that do appear under bipolar, but who knows?

hey

i have read that some think bpd is a form of bi-polar. but then there is the argument that u have to meet a separate set of personality disorder criteria (ie. cognition impairment etc) to be dx'ed with a personality disorder, but obv u dont need these criteria for bi-polar.

[Data]

BPD is not a form of bipolar.

"What is the difference between BPD and bipolar disorder, then? Some major components separate the two. While the disorders are both characterized by mood changes, the quality of the mood changes can be very different. In BPD, mood changes are often more short-lived -- they may last for a few hours at a time. In contrast, mood changes in bipolar disorder tend to last for days or even weeks. Also, mood shifts in BPD are usually in reaction to an environmental stressor (such as an argument with a loved one), whereas mood shifts in bipolar disorder may occur out-of-the-blue. Finally, the mood shifts typical of BPD rarely involve elation -- usually the shift is from feeling upset to feeling "OK," not from feeling bad to feeling a high or elevated mood, which is more typical of bipolar disorder."

http://bpd.about.com/od/relatedconditions/a/BPDVBipolar.htm

[sanctuary]

Thanks everyone for your replies, really interesting!!!

Toaster... thanks for sharing your insights (though I know mine too go into overdrive - what a mind fuck no??!). xxxx

Unlucky, it's an interesting hypothesis you put... whatever it is there is definately, for some of us, clearly some very very familiar behaviours that would be crazy to ignore!!

Speaking of behaviours, I have read that the cognitive method of therapy I am learning, (part of the DBT programme I am on), is also very effective for Bi-Polar and it makes me wonder.. is there a specific method of therapy proven to be effective for Bi-Polar? I looked on internet and found something really really interesting about vibration therapy or something... anyway, my point at this stage is that I really really think DBT would help everyone, not just those with BPD, but Bi-Polar too... and, and, and (clearly atm I am pro DBT).

I think seperating the two conditions and diagnosing them individually can be a big help to those of us who may be suffering BOTH conditions... it seems almost intuitive to me?!.

Whatever I have, I know that the more therpay I try, the more and more I become aware that my life has been about relentlessly trying to survive, but now, I am starting to see I have choices at every moment and I believe if my will to change is strong enough, which it is, I can beat BPD... however, as I fear is the case, I don't think my Bi-Polar traits will be completely gone.

If after a year of DBT I am still unsure, I will see a psychiatrist again to dicuss further however, I may have a spark of confidence (mania) and walk into the GP demanding something for my mood - like Lithium?! Oh I dunno, I just want to STOP BEING so dangerous and irresponsible. I am disabled, really.

[sanctuary]

Data, I'm going to be blunt about your second post in this topic... it sucks. One excerpt from About.com is not the authoritative discipline on the subject but a quick search in google will bring it up. Not everything (YET) is available on the internet. Studies into the link are not really what I'm interested in. What feels intuitive and right for me is all that matters but sadly that article is too vague and not intuitive enough for me.

[toaster]

((((((((sanc)))))))

know wot its likes babes an it fucking sucks xx

[Data]

Data, I'm going to be blunt about your second post in this topic... it sucks. One excerpt from About.com is not the authoritative discipline on the subject but a quick search in google will bring it up. Not everything (YET) is available on the internet. Studies into the link are not really what I'm interested in. What feels intuitive and right for me is all that matters but sadly that article is too vague and not intuitive enough for me.

OK thats fair enough.

In my opinion, BPD has environmental causes, it comes down to bad childhood experiences. I think Bipolar has organic or genetic causes, its a disease like any other health problem. I think they are separate problems with different (but overlapping) symptoms and different causes. However, some people have both BPD and Bipolar.

I'm not going to speculate as to what your diagnosis may be, Sanctuary, thats beyond my capabilities. Whatever is wrong with you, I hope you find a solution.

[channiunique]

Hay Sanc.

I'm 19 years old and recently has been diagnosed with BPD. I had never even heard of BPD before so I was like 'what!?'. For months before my psychotherapist diagnosed me I was going through serious depression after finding out I have Poly-cystic Ovaries. I had been prescribed two different kinds of depression tablets before being referred to a psychotherapist. I did 6 weeks worth of sessions and by the third she was extremely sure that I have BPD. I was not informed of what it is or what it means, so I came home and researched it on the net. I could relate to just about all the symptoms and I have had a lot of the traits since I was in my early teens. BPD now gives me a logical explanation of certain actions etc. that I did when I was younger and why I did things when I weren't thinking straight etc. Just like Unlucky I feel exactly the same as you! I also have found and been told that it is slightly like Bi-Polar but is not the same.

I've now been put on to 20mg of Citalopram.

This is all so much for me to take in and I feel hard done by.

[unlucky]

channiuniqueI found it really hard to come to terms with a diagnosis of BPD, I still am finding it hard. And my family are in complete denial. It's hard hun, but hopefully it will be worth it when they start helping us.

[danniegirl]

my Dx is bpd with bi-polar traights... maybe you have a few traits of bp..but not all..

but like you i do find it frustrating

[sanctuary]

I have 7 traits (shortly to be 6 - I'm hitting each trait one at a time and I intend to blast every last one of them!!!)

[hummm_mabbe]

I think I am bipolar.

I know I have BPD.

Is it possible to have both?

I have been through 3 years of individual and group therapy, have ended group and now on DBT for at least 6 months if not a year.... but I still feel something is missing or something has been overlooked. A psychiatrist specifically said she did not believe I had bipolar and gave me the diagnosis of BPD which fitted well with what I had believed myself. However, because I was so adamant that BPD was the label to explain all my worries, I think I may have thrown her completely off the scent of anything else!!

I get manic, frequently as part of my BPD, however some episodes are 'different' in as much as I feel utterly indestructable.

I spend recklessly, now that to me seems to be covered also by both conditions.

I engage in risky behaviour, again typical BPD but with the risky behaviour also sometimes comes the feeling of invincibility.

Thoughts?

Hi sanctuary

I dont know too much about diagnoses, but personally I would want to explore the mania when it comes. Not as in, give into it and follow it, but investigate it.

When I went through one particular year of feeling good, I went through feelings that I described as manic to my therapist. They were probably wholly different to what you are experiencing, but I found the reason they pulled me in was precisely because the powerful, attractive, invincible feeling was such a welcome relief from the anxiety, depression and pain. I think that sometimes the emotions and reasons for the emotions can get lost in a diagnosis, so if it were me I would want to bring that same investigation to the positive feelings as well as the bad ones.

I would take a look to see if the mania follows a certain type of event of feeling. Can it be triggered by something like a compliment, feeling good, enjoying an experience? Or does it come along in response to ongoing stress - like a sudden backlash from the bad feelings? I know you have done a lot of mindfulness practice - what happens when you bring that to the manic state? What do you find? If you find it hard to stay present in the manic state, maybe its something that will take time, to keep realising "im off again" and coming to the breath in the moment. Maybe that little space will make something click, that will start to fill in that hole you are feeling?

Ross

[sanctuary]

Actually Ross, the feelings of awareness when I am in that mania are uncomfortable, awkward, painful, shocking, and above all shameful. I am not proud of who I become, but I don't know that mindfulness yet has enough rewards for me to sit with it. After all, the mania really does have it's rewards. More than you could probably imagine?! Sorry, I do bring awareness to it but you don't understand, it feels unstoppable. Truly.

[sanctuary]

Thanks for replies to this and ross as always appreciate your brilliant strategies, I am goin to get a psychiatrist to investigate it with me and just hope until then I can make full use of the skills I'm learning in DBT. (Group skills tomorrow can't wait)

xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

Hullo

Oopsie sorry if I came off on a wonky vibe Yeah i can totally understand that - its something that feels good and has its rewards. Is it a bit like mindfulness is maybe something you have learned to try to put an end to the poopiness, and so to use it with the mania feels like "putting an end to the mania"? Like you dont want to control the mania, but you do want to control the depression, so it makes sense using mindfulness when you feel bad, but not when manic?

[hummm_mabbe]

Just thinking on a bit

You said that the mania has its rewards, yet you feel shameful and horrible. That got me to wondering, what were the messages you recieved about being confident, or arrogant, or big-headed? If you achieved, was there some way in which you were warned or guilted about becoming immodest? Or did you just generally find that feeling good made you feel guilty?

What I am thinking is, if you feel guilty about feeling good, it would make sense to avoid it or feel ashamed when you do. But perhaps some part of you fights back, and says "screw you, I want to feel good", and its like releasing all this pent up energy and it comes out in a torrent? Alongisde it is the sense of shame, amplified by knowing you are 'out of control'?

Sorry if this is not helping ... I'll shut up if I am just irritating you

Ross