Psychologist Oliver James

[LadyMacbeth]

As I see it non-BPDs who do not know much about the disorder lump them all together in the same category. If a person has severe abandonment issues, they SI, they are angry, they are manipulative then they must be BPD. There are nine traits and a person only needs to meet 5 out of the 9 to be considered a borderline. Obviously not every person with BPD has every trait.

James mentioned that Borderlines do not feel guilty about their behaviour...I will admit that I defiently do not agree with that. Why do borderlines beat themselves up for being bad people? Guilt! He is extremely misinformed there.

I do not agree with everything he is saying but I do understand where he is coming from. However, all human beings can show borderline traits does not mean they are borderline it means they are human.

[LadyMacbeth]

Lorna you bring up a valid point I agree with you 100%

[tigha]

So you feel that there is no truth in it?

I NEVER SAID THAT,BUT IT IS ONLY A SMALL PART OF THE TRUTH FOR A PORTION OF PEOPLE.YOU DON'T NEED ME To TELL YOU THAT.I don't read him using words 'people sometimes'.or 'can be' very often.If I don;t see it then,neither will the public,neither will have oither health professionals

But its a bit like saying addicts ar thieves,

But good point I won't email him straight away.I WILL at least wait to send it when I,m not so angry

putting the points that I think he should have covered is really good point

[LadyMacbeth]

If you look at this article through a borderline's point of view you won't see it. I think that some people may be seeing what they want to see. Maybe ask a non borderline's perspective on this. Actually I am not a borderline and I see the truth in this.

[Swan]

I think what is the real problem is that there is so much truth in it. I have definitely behaved in the ways that he has described.

What concerns, offends and upsets me (considerably) is what he has left out - the terrible guilt that comes from behaving in such horrible ways, the emotional alienation that leads to that behaviour without even the thought of how much hurt one may be inflicting, the terrible loneliness that results and the desperate, destructive clinginess. Also the way in which, unchecked this destructiveness can infect a whole family (I've seen it happen) which has led me in the past to think that I will be putting everyone out of their misery if I remove myself from the equation. By which actions I simply cause more pain.

Also, the whole issue of abusive relationships - the implication that abusive partnerships are caused by the BPD when often one seeks an abusive relationship (which worsens the disorder) because it is familiar. I'm FAR worse now than I was when I married, and objective reports indicate that his abuse was more extreme than anything I was doing to him.

[Lauren]

Think I want to read his book now.

He has a different insight that I am drawn to despite not agreeing with every word he has to say.

[Lauren]

(((((Swan)))))

[tigha]

I mean just judging bt the discussions just now about whether to have cbt or psychotherapy, shows how different we all are,how we all find different things help.Actrually I've been in full time psychotherapy which focused on here and now and dealt woth the past only as & if it came up.Then we also had cbt to concentrate on changing patterns of thoughts and behaviours.

cert for me the combination of both, is what had made all the difference

[Lauren]

Heh,

You ever been made to sit on a chair and hold a conversation with your reproductive organs?

Sorry, this thread just reminded me of that for some reason. was a 'strange' experience. One I do not wish to repeat. Had enough experience with named male organs as a teenager :P

[Swan]

I am looking at it through a borderline's perspective. Surely that is part of the readership he should have been expecting.

Looking at it from the perspective of having worked very hard to change the destructive things I do and have done, and trying to repair the damage and hurt that I have caused.

I'm in a positive and optimistic frame of mind, feeling much better than I have for years, but it has still managed to make me feel filthy and worthless and less than human.

I'm not even trying to be objective about it right now, and I've stopped being angry - I just grieve for all of us who have to live with this, and I feel terribly, terribly sad that that is the way that I have been seen by those I've respected and admired.

[Swan]

Thanks Lorna

[Lauren]

I think I am more exepting of the article because of where it has been published. Had it been the 'sun' I would of been a bit more concerned

Readers of the observer tend to be educated and some what Liberal.

[Swan]

Not that I've noticed, they only think they are

I'm feeling so bad - somehow this has triggered me like nothing else in ages. I actualy don't really know what to do with myself, despite being able to dole out practical suggestions to everyone else, it's just got me right where it hurts, maybe because it sounds just like all the horrid things I tell myself when I'm feeling down, which I haven't, to that extent, for months.

[LadyMacbeth]

Swan-not every mental health professional views borderlines the same. I know I have traits of BPD, I have been manipulative, I have pushed people away by hurting them because I was hurting. I have exploded at people. I have done things I am not happy about and I told my T all of this and she swears I am not a borderline. She validated why I did these things to people or to myself because of hurt and pain I feel inside. You did what you did because you were ill. You are making the attempt to change your behaviour and you should be proud of that because its a big step. Don't let one person's view of BPD allow you to feel ashamed of yourself. Read something by Jeff Young an American psychologist who works with borderlines and you will get an entirely different perspective of the disorder.

Emma

[Lauren]

You are not horrid, or bad or anything like that.

[Lauren]

Yes,

Jeff young is good,very good!

[tigha]

I guess my emotions are still a little wild, and maybe I'm not reading the whole thing. Actually right now not interested but really glad that I saw it and will definitely take it further..i am perfectly willing to accept that I have over reacted-whats new. when i have shown it to some health proffessional who specialise in treatment for people with BPD and may be able to judge it better.

anyways labes are horrible,for this very reason ,the stigma attached to them

Hope your not too upset Swan

[Swan]

I know. I'm struggling because the one person I really want to talk to about this is my ex T and I can't, because of my own stupid fault. I miss him so badly and I've just got to get over it and move on. But I feel like he's the only person I could actually go and be with in the same room who would understand how I feel.

[tigha]

seems like my computer is bit slow,sorry guys and my last post got lost somewhre

sorry your feeling bad now Swan,yes our behaviours often do leave us feeling guily and ashamed but we have to accept what we do, and try to learn from it,learn hopw we might catch ourselves next time before we flip

be

I AA they have a great saying.

"we are not bad people trying to get good but we are sick people trying to get well"

be gentle with yourself.

personally I,m going to take this further and try to get some of the health proffessional who specialis ein treatment of PD to do something, they may of course say " leave it" but will try

[Swan]

Thanks tigha

There's so much to be done - acute wards is a big issue as well.

I'm going to go and look after myself now - supper, bath and bed, with some tabs to make it easier.

I've also got the reforming zeal, but the pain of it always takes me by surprise.

[flippy]

Speaking from a personal point of view, if this is the definition of what someone with bpd is like then i should be jumping for joy because most of it just isnt me. I will hold my hands up to the erratic and impulsive but as for the rest no that's not me.

So anyone reading this article who isnt familiar with bpd will now be able to pre-judge me and pretty much hang me out to dry, because i don't sound a very nice person do i?

Maybe they should put me up against a wall and shoot me they wouldn't have to deal with me then.

flippy

[calyps]

Swan, i am with you on this 100 percent.

People don't see 'often' or 'sometimes' they see it as all of us. I'm so insulted that he thinks I'm not suffering any guilt. this fact alone makes me suffer more of it.

Most unhappy.

What an asshole.

[flora]

I don't agree that he has any point whatsoever.

Every single person i have met who has a diagnosis of bpd has an overdeveloped conscience and sense of guilt, rather than having no guilt at all. Lack of a conscience is psychopathic, not bpd.

Narcissistic fantasies...no, i'm sorry. Again every person i have met or talked to with a diagnosis of bpd has extremely low self-esteem.

Unable to sustain relationships. He would be right to say that we have interpersonal difficulties but he can't generalise like that. When we feel secure and loved, we are perfectly able to both give and receive in a relationship.

Psychoanalysis is actually not recommended. That's not to say that some of us wouldn't benefit. Personally, the psychodynamic stuff is damaging. It opens up all sorts of issues without giving us the skills or support to deal with it.

If this guy knew anything at all, he would know that dbt is the best evidence based treatment for bpd and associated problems.

Childhood abuse is a contributory factor - but not THE one and only cause of bpd. That's too simplistic. Childhood experiences affect the physical development of the brain. We may or may not have been predisposed to these problems anyway. Not everybody with bpd has been abused.

There is such a lack of understanding about the term "personality disorder" that it's downright irresponsible to publish an article like that. It's simplistic and makes sweeping generalisations. There is no one cause, or one presentation of bpd. It's not like talking about the characteristics of a certain species. BPD doesn't define us.

Love flora xox

[mitchy]

i always feel guilt. even for things i know i can't help and no one else blames me for. i never exaggerate what i'm going through nor do i mope about to avoid my responsibilities. in fact i am the complete opposite, always trying to make up for the bad stuff about me. i don't blame my sexual problems on my husband and i don't see sex as a game, but an act of love. i certainly don't find myself desirable either. and i would never ever go behind andreas' back. we've had over 16 years of faithfulness - so much for not being able to sustain a relationship. whilst it is difficult for me to have long term friendships it doesn't mean i don't know what love is. i love and respect andreas and i certainly wouldn't get satisfaction out of deceiving him. i don't have narcissistic fantasies either.

highly offended by this article. ok, so i have mood shifts and i can explode, but i also have downward turns when i turn in on myself rather than other people. i keep most of my problems to myself, which is why i find it so difficult to speak out during therapy. i play down my problems rather than let everyone see. i am a caring person and it affects me deeply when i have a bad turn. i always feel rotten about causing distress to others. and i'm always striving to put it right.

i have all 9 traits of bpd and am fully aware of what i'm like. i always like to be told. so i can learn from it. but i don't see how that makes me out to be the monster he is describing in his article.

funny how he didn't mention self harm. most people get diagnosed with bpd on that symptom alone, even if they haven't got it.

[caz]

My psychiatrist always says that I am no more responsible for my bpd than a stroke victim is responsible for having a stroke. The tone of the article is offensive. There is no attempt to understand, no attempt to convey the guilt, fear and anguish which leads to the behavour. If I gained from all these horrible traits and did not try to control them then perhaps I woould deserve to be villified.

All this article is saying is that we are bad people. Are all sick people bad then as they are so demanding?