toaster Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 so i have just had my session with my social worker - we are doin cbt stuffs. it went from me being quite emotionless to very emotional anyway, ive taken away lots of things but the thing i want to share is... i strive for perfection in every area of my life. and its unattainable. yet still i strive, strive, strive. and every fucking time i'm let down by myself because i just can never meet or keep up with my standards. and when i feel like ive failed i fall apart. when i think cuz i havent washed the 3 dishes in the sink that ive failed, i give up there and then and then things become totally out of hand. when ive eaten a bit of food that i need i think ive failed so therefore binge. when i think ive done crap at an essay cuz i only passed and didnt get top marks ill walk out of the course. that sort of thing... so ive decided to accept im a failure. wait, wait, before you're all like 'your not a failure!', listen to me you know the saying 'cogito ergo sum - i think, therefore, i am'? well this holds true for me, i believe. i think i am a failure, i believe i am a failure so therefore i am failure. and it is this feeling i need to accept. if i can accept this then i have something to work on. theres only one direction from failure, and that is UP. not perfection. just something more than failure. its a good theory i think. now i have to try and accept it toast xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 3 words... progress NOT perfection xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 yes... progress from failure crumbs loves chips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 3 more words... chips loves crumbs xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Hello toasticles mc tinkle fluff I have prolly waffled about this loads in the past, but did you ever have a peek at that Schema Therapy book, Reinventing Your Life? It covers the "failure" schema, and the "defectiveness" schema, as well as the "unrelenting standards" schemas - all of which relate to what you are decribing there. What i especially like about it is that it doesnt try to force you into seeing things another way, its more about getting really in touch with the feelings that drive those patterns and so removing a lot of the heat and pressure from them. I could literally write pages and pages about perfectionism, but at its core, and often out of sight / awareness, is fear. For me its the fear of never being good enough, and so never being wanted. I have sort of confused achievement and approval with acceptance, and am sort of driven by the fear of being ledt alone, being dismissed or being held in contempt. Its like I am chasing after perfection because I believe it will ward off that horrible, terrifying feeling of being left alone, or worse - being rejected in an angry hateful way by someone important to me. There are various steps in changing it, some of them slightly CBT-ish, others not so much - but one of the most important parts for me has been exactly what you describe, actually getting in touch with the feeling of being a failure. Actually asking my body what it would feel like to really be a failure, how others would treat me and how my emotions would respond. When you really start to feel it, things begin to change - as long as you can start to devlop a sense of compassion and acceptance for it. It is tough at first - your natural built in reaction may be to drive yourself, to identify problems and want to eliminate them. Thats just how things may be right now, so become aware of what its like to feel like you are driving yourself. Become aware of the feeling of pressure, and how painful it is. At the same time, also become aware of maybe the part of you that would feel so sad to not ever be good enough, maybe the times when that has leaked through and you really felt rejected. You can;t really 'make' yourself feel compassion, but rather you just accept all these feelings in that mindful, 'observing' type way. "Here are feelings of pressure and self-intolerance; here are feelings of fear; here are feelings of sadness". You sort of just make space for them, without engaging in the desire to change or remove them. What I am finding is that the more I make room for sadness, and become aware of that intolerant response, the more i feel like I am standing up for that sad part, and so the more I have compassion for myself. Its not something you can choose to do - its more like it just happens when you make space for it all. So I would say opening up to the feelings of failure is a good thing, but at the same time be aware of any sense of attacking, condemning or criticisng yourself, and any demands for future performance. With time you may come to see that achievement, success and so on are all separate to the idea of whether you are 'good enough' - its just that right now the two feel emotionally identical. Thats why opening to feeling is so important, because you start to get that much finer detail in experiencing. Dunno maybe too waffley ... Rossey mc waffle bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiddi Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Toastie, what do you mean by failure? Is your 'failure' most peoples 'good enough'? I haven't done the work that you or Ross are talking about. So, I would be coming at it from the angle, whats wrong with 'good enough'? How can I accept being good enough? BTW I'm talking theoretical here - because I often struggle with being less than perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 hey there rossy mc waffle bottom what you say about the fear is exactly how i feel. if i fail i will be rejected, failure is a BAD thing. i'll be laughed at, yelled at, scorned, humiliated then i'll be left to sit with my shame. i try and remind myself that these aren't really my beliefs that they are beliefs that have been implanted in me by others and now is the time to start testing my own beliefs. but first i have to find them. and that starts at the bottom... as part of my training for samaritans one of the qualities they look for is 'the ability to make mistakes'. i try and keep that in mind, that it can be seen as a positive thing rather than a negative. when i was in group, we took turns to write the agenda for the day. i always did it totally perfectly and eveyone always commented on it, which i was all like 'yay!' about. then, when i did the agenda, when i finished writing it one of the therapists would be like 'oh hang one, we need to change that bit here'...i'd want to write it all out again but he would be like 'there isn't time' so my beautiful writing would be ruined! and for all the group to see! lol. it sounds so trivial but inside i was burning with shame, kicking myself for it not being perfect, explaining why it was a 'mess' to the rest of the group. i know i have to be aware of not being like totally hard on myself. i just have to think 'i feel like a failure. how do i manage this feeling?'. this type of thinking has helped me in other ways, like with my social anxiety. i get anxious in public, in groups, very anxious. but now, rather than pre-empting it, winding myself up about it, i look for ways to manage the anxiety. thanx toasticles mc tinkle fluff P.S. not too waffley, very much appreciated :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted February 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Toastie, what do you mean by failure? Is your 'failure' most peoples 'good enough'? I haven't done the work that you or Ross are talking about. So, I would be coming at it from the angle, whats wrong with 'good enough'? How can I accept being good enough? BTW I'm talking theoretical here - because I often struggle with being less than perfect. failure for me is not getting 100% in a test - even if i got 98%, the 2% i didnt get will plague me, rather than me being proud of the 98%. i have to be better than everyone else. top of the class. the best at what i do. i dont know how to accept 'good enough'. this is my aim i guess. accepting a thought or a feeling. then asking ourself what can we do to manage it. maybe challenge it. then this is where we hit that murky grey area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Hi there I think thats the thing about perfectionism - it gets into everything, even therapy! I often find taking advice very hard because it tends to feel like a criticism, like I 'should' have known that. I hope me giving advice isn't triggering that for you too I am saying this from a having been there, and this is whats helping me type way. For me, that shame feeling is the one to work with. If you have started to become aware of it, to actually feel it, then I would say go deeper into that. Let yourself experience the shame, the terror and all the feelings that the perfectionism is trying to escape from, but hopefully with that acceptance and support from your T. It can be tough because once you start to examine the source and motivation of the perfectionism, you notice how it loops round on itself. You start to think about letting go of perfectionism, only for some part of your mind to go "OK so when we let go of perfectionism, thats when we will be perfect?" Its another really annoying thing that goes in a weird cycle. If I can comment on one of the other posts - part of being able to accept "good enough" is allowing in the fear and pain of "not good enough". We get so used to compulsively chasing perfection, in the same way as we might chase chocolate or ciggies. Its what we reach for in the effort to remove pain or avoid new instances of it. Facing a fear means allowing yourself to feel the pain that brings up without running from it or pushing it away. Sometimes in CBT its tempting to get seduced by the idea that challenging and facing fear automatically makes it go away. It doesn't - all that stuff is just about getting you to actively face the pain of it, but with a new slant or angle. Its one of the hardest parts of therapy - knowing you are going to have to actually experience that fear, the pounding heart and so on. So with making a mistake, you would make the mistake, then allow the panic, the pain, the tearing sensations, the pressure to change the error - allow it all to come up and just do what it does, without acting on it. You see that it rises and passes, and that each time it becomes less and less. You start with the smallest pain and work up. But facing pain or fear without resorting to the old patterns is the hardest, most unpleasant part of it and sometimes therapy can make it seem simpler than it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maize Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 I think you're on the right track Toaster, WTG! Perfectionism just gives us more headache and frustration, because nothing is ever really good enough or perfect enough. It might also be fear of failure so embrace failure as you say and maybe then progress can be made. It took me way too long to learn that so I think you're doing very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissa Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 There's no such thing as failure in my opinion! You aren't a failure and the things you do aren't a failure. Everything is a learning process. We make mistake sometimes, but that doesn't matter. It's all good xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiddi Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 part of being able to accept "good enough" is allowing in the fear and pain of "not good enough". I like that.Not the fear and pain,obviously, but yes, I do like seeing it from that angle. At times, I am totally unaware of there being the option of 'good enough', and this is where everything falls apart, because I am not even aware of trying to be perfect. Does anyone else suffer with that? Perfect or nothing. Constantly reminding myself of the 'good enough' option, and actually trying to find it, has helped me more than anything else, in regard to this problem. Toastie - I love how hard you are working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 hey there thanx for all ur replies rossy, haha, thats EXACTLY how ive been feeling, about the 'being perfect at therapy'! its like i have to be the best, PERFECT at recovery...wtf?! i often dont recognise when im attempting to be perfect either. only now when im attempting NOT to be perfect am i becoming more aware! i purposely try not to be all perfect in my spelling and grammar when posting but then is that me taking it too far?! aarrgghh thank u maize for saying im on the right track, thank u narcissa for saying im not a failure and thank u bibiddi for saying u love how hard i am working. its so hard sometimes. sometimes i am overwhelmed. the more i learn about myself the more i realise i have/want to do and it scares the shit out of me. i cried the other day when talking about this to my social worker, i was on the verge of a panic attack, the fear inside was so great. to let go of that defensive, frightened child and become a responsible, 'good enough' adult toasts xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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