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[toaster]

This is just a little thought I have had...it IS NOT aimed at anyone! Just wondering on peoples opinions and experiences

Before I became a person who was ready to embark on recovery, I guess you could say I was a little bit trollish. Exaggerating events, creating dramas etc etc.

I use another forum where I see people in there and I just don't believe half the stuff that comes out of their mouth. I know that is my opinion and they could be telling the truth...but it's all stuff like where they have been attacked by a different stranger every week for a year. I can understand these types of lies. People tell them because they want validation for how they feel. The real stuff is too painful for them but they still want the attention. I knew a girl who made up a load of stuff on a forum but she came clean. Everyone turned their backs on her. Said they couldn't trust her. But they only couldn't trust her because she had told the truth about lying.

I see people post about being in crisis and all this stuff but then I see them on facebook being all happy and stuff. I understand people may feel they can't be honest on facebook, but if you are feeling that terrible then can you really pretend? I know I couldn't in the past, and i know I didn't give a shit who saw my status about how fucking shite I was feeling.

The girl who told the truth about lying - she had a reason to carry on lying. People supported her. Gave her attention. Everyone felt sorry for her. I just was angry at her because I KNEW she was lying - probably I recognised that behaviour in myself. But when she came clean, we became good friends. We spoke about how easy it is to portray yourself as someone else on the internet, how easy it is to glean sympathy.

The other place I use, I use less and less these days because it frustrates me. I hate seeing people say all this mad stuff and it being encouraged. I'd go into chat and say something 'honest' and I'd be ignored. They all thrive of the drama and excitement of others lives.

I know I can't prove they are lying or whatever. And maybe I am just being a bitch.

We never really know where we stand with people, do we?

I know this place has helped me, but that was after I'd been the attention seeking drama queen. I come here and post controversial stuff (like this post ). I know it is hard to be honest.

I guess I am just wondering other peoples opinions on this. Does the internet help or is it aiding, encouraging the bad stuff?

toast xx

[Apollo 13]

We never really know where we stand with people, do we?toast xx

If we are being honest, then we will always know where we stand with people, and in an "Honesty Poll", 9/10 people said they would be dishonest!!

I know it is hard to be honest.

toast xx

And therein lies the truth

............and if I have manipulated or extrapalated a non story then I apologise...........but she is obviously guilty of something because the Innocent never apologise............read it in the Sundays people!! :D

..........or then again you could just go with your "OWN" experiences, you know, the ones that don't rely on someone else's opinion...........there us no "like" button here you Muuppets..............it's not about popularity............it's about Contribution!!

T

[guntarded]

Toaster,

I think its part of mental illness that is shown on here time and time again, where people lie, exaggerate events for a purpose. I respond only now to people who I feel are genuine, but I am wrong for ignoring those people who I prejudge, because in behind the attention-seeking behaviour (lets call a spade a spade) lies the invalidation, the need to be heard, understood.

I say this from the other side. My mother grew up from childhood being a compulsive liar. As she got older she would tell more and more lies and exaggerations and for years, her children grew up believing them, until she was questioned. She is the type to say one thing to your face then bad mouth and lie about you or exaggerate some story behind your back all for one reason - to get sympathy, to get attention. Many many times I have caught my mother out, and now my sister, on these tales - which is not all innocent white lies, they can be serious - destroying relationships between my siblings and myself. She is now mistrusted in our whole family - when she does have a real crisis, people do not believe her and its her own fault.

I was on holiday with her and sat her down whilst having a cocktail and asked her one-on-one why does she lie and exaggerate. Gave her an open field, no judgement, just lets talk about it. She couldn't say why she does it - habit possibly. I told her that she (my mother) ahs alienated everyone, has no friends in her life, has no goals does not nothing but sit in the house all the time. So when family call her on the telephone what has she to say to them - no news. So as a result she makes up news, she pretends she has done things so that she can carry a conversation over the telephone - deep down hiding the fact that she is lonely, craves friendships and wants to do things with her life but feels she cannot. At this my mother opened up and told me that this is exactly how she was feeling and is ashamed of the trouble she causes.

one year on and shes still lying and exaggerating. Old habits dying very very hard. I know toaster you are reflecting upon your experiences, as many of your insightful topics have previously done and its brave to do so, because its literally bringing to the service something that we deep down all know about ourselves on this forum but don't talk about - about time we all got real, and discussed when we exaggerate or lie about events, without judgement being passed upon any person, why do we do it - what void do we really want to fill and is the attention we get back validating? Sometimes exaggerations and lies that we tell may appear innocent at first, but it can be damaging to a person, my mother being an example - her own living brothers/sisters refuse to believe her or contact her, her inner family do not trust her as they know she seeks to cause division amongst us all; and now she is 65 living with regrets...just regrets with no friends or family who can ever trust her.

I wonder if all those lies and exaggerations are really worth the permanent damage to her character

[Saharah Blue]

I think I can understand where your coming from on that one. People really can act out a lot while they are finding their feet, it can be silly, annoying, sad, pathetic, scary, to watch them. I opt for general acceptance of them while maintaining my person boundaries from getting caught up in their crisis's. Usually, they calm down and settle into more supportive members, make friends and start finding their way, or their acting out online is not enough and they leave it for something more intensely real life.

Acting out always has its reprecussions online or otherwise and the aftermath is usually a lot of shame and clean up. I would definitely put some investment int a real life relationship that was falling out, but an online one, I'd just leave it. Since like you say, you can really portray yourself anyway you want online.

For me the Forum is relating to how people feel more than what they do. I will mostly likely never have to go through some of the things people have been through, mostly because I am older and past so much of the young stuff, although I was a right bitch ice princess face in my youth . I am going on my 4th year here and it is always a new perspective I am learning, or sharing, or something. And the high drama, well its all apart of the forum, but it rarely is the forum to me.

[ILostHer]

Totally triggered by this post because this horrible bastard voice in my head calls me a liar and a fraud daily all frigging day long.

Now my head has gone blank and I can't remember what I was going to say.

Sometimes I think people are lying.

Sometimes maybe people are.

When I have that feeling about someone I try to work out and why and understand why they would, I have a fearful hate of liars, one's that do it for gain or to cheat or hurt people, it makes me hate them. But not sure that I would ever feel that about people on a mental health forum because we don't know them in real life. Can't explain that properly but I know what I mean.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think you should have written this post. Not when it's got people on this place that are tortured daily by someone in their heads calling them a liar. (I know of others on here that have this) Maybe you should have put a trigger warning in the sub title as 'Forums' and in the light section doesn't really say what your post is about. I wouldn't have read it otherwise.

[Christine001]

we are also paranoid so when i read it I thought thats me. and do think its me so not posting about myself so fully anymore, which is probably a good thing. I do think I say too much and this post made me think about that.

I dont think anyone is deliberately lying on here, perhaps i am just naive, I also think that people can post one way and then another due to rapid changes in mood and thoughts and mh.

toaster i dont mind you posting controversial things,but do worry if you get criticism how that affects you. edit to add this bit hope I am not being patronising.

[toaster]

First of all charlotte, I'm sorry your were triggered by this. But the thing is I have had exactly the same fears - terrified of being thought of as a liar. I've had people CALL me a liar when I was telling the truth, when I disclosed at the age of 14. People did not believe me until it was up it in court, medical evidence was provided and one of them pleaded guilty. So yes, I know those fears and I live with them every day. As for maybe not writing this post - it's a free forum, I haven't broken any rules. That is like me going to read a post and a mention of pink floyd being in there and saying it should have a trigger warning - I get triggered by him and his music for a certain reason. But that is up to me manage, I can't ask everyone to put trigger warnings on every post in case a mention of pink floyd may be in there, can I? I am sorry you are triggered but I can't help that now.

Gun, your reply was great, thank you. I am sorry your mother is like that. My foster sister is the same. She tells insane stories, one including me hitting her over the head with a hoover it is really, really hard to argue with her, tell her it isn't true - she gets angry, calls me thick, stupid, dozy...in the end you agree with her, but that isn't helping her!

The point of this post was not to upset people. It was an opportunity for me to speak of my thoughts and experiences. In a safe place. Me speaking about this stuff is a part of my recovery. Because I have lied in the past, and I feel a need to look at it. I also do not know how to handle others when I feel they are lying. Don't get angry, but don't encourage it.

My belief now is that people often rarely lie to hurt others. There are people out there who will - my foster mother for example. But most people are doing it for attention (like guns mum or my foster sister) or to protect themselves.

The thing about lying, for me, is that I never needed to do it. My life has been insane enough to get me enough attention from! I never wanted that attention though. So I would say stuff like I have had a miscarriage or something. Heartless? Probably. Do I feel ashamed of it. Yes. But the only way I can keep on recovering is by telling the truth. I am sick to death of secrets.

Sahara, I know what you mean, that people usually find their feet. But I see some people that haven't. Do I ignore them? I am better at not replying now. In the past I would have gone off on one on them. Because, like I said before, I recognised that behaviour in myself and probably was afraid of being caught out.

toast xx

[Roses]

In reply to original post here Toaster it depends on the site as to how you talk to people. This is a MH site and people post to get support for that. It doesn't mean that they will go on FB and say different FB prolly has all their family and friends on it. So you shouldn't judge people by seeming different in one place to another. This IS the place to scream about your problems. I only have family and friends on FB now for this exact reason as I don't want the two worlds overlapping (unless of course my friend from here became a friend in RL and could be trusted not to post about sui MH stuff cos MY SON also is on my friends list on FB). Does that help at all?

[toaster]

yes roses this does help thank you. i can understand why you wouldnt want your son seeing certain things.

i have never made a 'i am sui' thing on facebook - i will say if i am feeling shit, which isnt very often these days.

the thing i struggle with is this - people type on a forum (not just this one) that they have overdosed, self-harmed, are in a bad way., things like that. then i see them on (example) facebook saying they are off out on the piss, going for a meal, happy happy happy. but elsewhere they are saying they need medical attention. or they leave ppl to worry about the state they r in. THATS what i cant get my head around.

[Roses]

yes I agree, if they were indeed that sui you might question how they be going out clubbing. Although when I was younger I was constantly overdosing and keeping up appearances at the same time going out and trying so hard to be so well and look so good but behind the closed door I was a wreck. I thought it was quite common for people with MH issues to lead these double lives. If I didn't have this place to come to I wouldn't talk about most of the stuff I talk about on here with anyone. Am I a hypocrite then?

[toaster]

i dont think ur a hypocrite. its one thing to put on a face to the world, its another to post and say 'have od'ed/self harmed' THEN see that person 5 minutes later somewhere else apparently absolutely fine. i dont think it is fair to put ppl thru that worry. i understand the need for attention. and i know ppl dont do it to intentionally hurt other people. but it does hurt and it makes trusting others even harder. and encouraging it does not help and i refuse to participate. the thing i AM guilty of is not pulling ppl up on it - because i dont wanna upset ppl. this post is generalised, i am not aiming it at anyone in particular, AND NOT ANYONE WHO HAS REPLIED, please understand that. its actually more about another place i use. it frustrates me, it makes me feel sad.

[Roses]

No, it's ok I know you aren't aiming it at anyone. And I understand that there are occasions where sick minded individuals like to play games. I'm just putting forward my opinion that a lot of the time it is just that people lead 2 lives and that is normal when their illness is of a MH nature as we naturally don't want to talk about it. I am saying that I think perhaps you are being a bit harsh is all hun. Is there a particular event that has made you start thinking like this? Has someone upset you? xxx

[Benway]

hiya

I was thinking earlier about 'malingering' , and i know i have done it in the past. Lied to the duty psych so i could get attention, tablets and a bad and away from my ex an the kids, i was stuck in a circle of crazyness i had no clue HOW to stop it.

Pure fucking malingering.

Just months previously, had a great job, holidays blah blah, but once i fell apart i was terribly hurt and afraid as well as lying.

And i see people here everyday in terrible pain, but i know if i start to reply to every single post- or read every single post, that i would get into a depressive mood for the evening. An thats shit as i live alone and the evenings are hard. My son stays 2-4 days a week, those nights are easier.

Lying in forums is kinda the same mentality , you have an agenda, a need to be filled, an ya try get it by lying and decieving.

I dunno, i think i is a part or a stage of bpd perhaps.

I think if you can recognise it an be truthful about it, well more power and fair play to ya.

Knew a girl in the TC i was in for 2 yrs. Said things about her family. Really bad things. But a few yrs ago she copped to me it had been untrue, i was shocked, i had met her brothers & sisters at our kids christenings etc and was pretty close tp her.

When she told me i just hugged her, difdn't bear a grudge, whats the point like?

Sometimes on the forum there are so many ppl having diff crises and the 'mood' goes down, i think, and there just dosent seem to be enough 'positive' salve for everyones souls.

I want to go for a walk before i go stir crazy, but its a good topic to discuss i think, as its part of the gettin better cycle. love & hugs amxxx

[Christine001]

So we are now quiet- silenced

[manja.]

So we are now quiet- silenced

you ok christine? xxx

[Christine001]

yes no worries.

[toaster]

christine - i dont understand sorry? what is it that has offended you? if u read my other replies u will see i have said that this is not aimed anyone in particular, and certainly no one who has replied and that still stand true.

this post was a way for me to get others opinions on this, not to cause offence.

i used to have a major issue with lies. part of it was paranoia - i believed everyone was lying to me. and i believed it to be a way to hurt me. i dont think that so much any more.

and like anne marie says, talking about this stuff is a part of recovery, well, for me anyway. can't people look at it that way rather than thinking ive gone and attacked you all?

roses, i use another forum, that is primarily for sexual abuse survivors. when, in the past, i would go in there and have crisis after crisis in chat, id have a whole heap of attention. now, i go in and maybe say something that is on my mind after therapy and im met by total silence - or worse, people ask me to talk, i do, then they carry on talking around me. another person comes in with a crisis, their 10th crisis that day and they are heard. there is stuff i worry about posting here because this is a mental health forum, not everyone has been sexually abused. and i get fucking pissed off that, in my recovery, ppl who were once 'friends' no longer want to know. that if i went in saying id just been attacked, id be heard, even though i could exaggerate it to no end but they still would all love it.

i have some understanding, i truly do. but i hate to see it , when ppl r lying or exaggerating, being fed.

we all lie. or we have all lied. i lied to my sister today, saying i got out of bed earlier than i really did. purely because i couldnt be arsed with her 'ur such a lazy fuck' mantra. no one was hurt in the lie.

meh ive obviously offended ppl. ok, those who i have offended ill ask not to come back to this post. u do have a choice, u dont have to read it if it is that triggering. i wouldnt go back to a post that triggered me!

but thanx to everyone who has replied

xx

[walker]

the inner voices are always saying we lie, lie about the pain, the emotions, the anger, the depression, the happiness, the the the the

(from parents spending life denying who we were or what was ever coming out from inside of us)

because things change so rapidly that what is the truth - INTENSLY the truth - can in moments become gone

and then for us (walker) it becomes a lie - like it was never there - even tho it was

we dont lie

but we dont come here to talk of the ok things in our life (yes there are one or two!!)

we come here to talk - ALL of us - like we cannot talk anywhere else in the world, apart from with cpn

so if you met 'me' in the street walking the dog, chatting to old ladies we know, then you would not see the same person

BUT

and this is a VERY VERY VERY BIG BUT

we have had people - on here - (not anyone here present) - lie about having children, -

now that is lying

and we do not comprehend how people can do that

we cannot even claim to have no friends - since we have 2 and others who are happy to talk to us - well - to the 'me' they know

yet there have been many many many times we have felt it was so - but didnt dare write it - as it was a lie

so

there have been very many times we have read things on here and head has screamed 'liar' and filled with judgmental condemnation - since we would not claim those things if they were false

but we understand the deep seated and almost unconscious - need to fit, to belong, to 'become our surroundings' - to be 'accepted'

so should damn well learn to understand it in others - even if it manifests itself in ways we would not consider

does any of that make sense?

it has taken an hour to write - truthfully !!

ed. ok so maybe should have kept quiet -

[ntt14]

Toaster - Blimey, I think you might just have opened a whopping big can of worms here! I can see that you weren't trying to attack anyone but I also understand that it might upset some people. But no no no you shouldn't be made to feel bad for trying to talk through something that's bothering and upsetting you.

It's a bit complicated isn't it. Everyone puts on a front when they feel bad, feels they are attention seeking or thinks people might not believe them, but there are people who play on it purely for attention and are using the emotions and experiences of people who are genuinely hurting.

I think that's what you were trying to say. I think you've been misunderstood and def weren't trying to hurt anyone xx

[Christine001]

u didnt offend me hun, it just triggered my insecurities thats all. and u are right i shouldnt read xx

[Data]

People can and do sound normal on Facebook, or in any place where they feel its no ok to be honest. That does not mean that they are lying, just they are able to hold it together for a bit.

I have these debates myself about whether the internet really helps. But the thing is.. its there. Often, nothing else is!

[toaster]

thanx peeps...

the thing is, some of u r saying this is the place where u can talk about stuffs...

i was doing JUST THAT

i was talking about LIES - not talking about 'putting on a face'. i meant outright lies, like what walker said...saying stuff that ISN'T TRUE, such as 'ive taken an overdose' when i havent. me saying i had a miscarriage in group when i hadnt. i put meself out there, like all u looking for support, but people have taken it personally. all i asked was for ppl to step into my shoes and see where i was coming from. i think i was understanding and non-judgemental in my original post - i never slated anyone. i merely opened a topic. but ive been told i shudnt have started this topic, ive triggered ppl and silenced ppl.

so ill go away, triggered and silenced see the irony?

im going to ask for this topic to end now. thanx for replying peeps

toast xx

[guntarded]

Toaster its a shame.

This is maybe one of the most important topics on this forum over the years...and I mean most important. Lying, exaggerating - blantantly and knowingly doing so for attention - many on here do it or have done it, its not about judgement - the topic is not about judging anyone, its about recognising behaviours, thinking as a forum community why do we do it, and finding ways to combat it - is that not one of the goals of the forum, people to come together with their experiences and try to help each other

This topic is going to be controversial, because its the truth....the honest truth, and without facing truths about ourselves and how we behave there is no way we can ever get to that stage where we can be the change that we need, you can have all the cpn and psychiatrists in the world, but unless we all start being honest with ourselves we will always be in this same rut.

Walker - you differentiate very eloquently a big difference: "because things change so rapidly that what is the truth - INTENSLY the truth - can in moments become gone" - to believe in a truth wholeheartedly and then to find, due to bpd or emotional turmoil we have that truth we believed suddenly is a lie -

What this topic hits at is the core of lying deliberately, consciously and knowingly for your own purposes, to get people worried about you when you know deep down that what you state is lies - again its not a judgemental topic, its identifying our behaviours and seeing ways around them.

I'll repeat, I would personally not want this topic to end, this is such an important topic. Surely the cycles must be broken at some stage?

[toaster]

thanx for that gun

i was pissed off when i came back and this has been on my mind all evening.

i was being childish in my previous reply.

people dont wanna talk about it, i get that. but yeah, we all have a choice here - if u have read this topic and dont like it and dont want to associate with it, then walk away.

this topic is important to me, and it is important to gun and it may well be important to others. so okies, replies continue.

THIS IS ABOUT OUTRIGHT LIES. 'I TOOK AN OVERDOSE' when really i havent - that type of stuff. i AM bieng black and white here because this topic IS black and white - this isnt about the middle ground of 'what is a lie?' - this is about what we KNOW are lies.

REMEMBER - YOU DONT HAVE TO REPLY. IF YOU HAVE ALREADY READ THIS AND DIDNT LIKE IT, THEN YOU DIDNT HAVE TO COME BACK.

like i say, i was never being judgemental, and i wont be judgemental. so i ask the same of others.

toast xx

[ILostHer]

Toaster, I absolutley agree with you about people that lie outright, blatant, attention seeking lies, when really they are fine, they don't struggle on a daily basis to just breath. I agree with that. It's wrong and out of order. I am out today, and I may well put the photo's from today on my face book, but I won't say that I cried like a baby to my mum and dad yesterday, or that I hurt my childs feelings so badly because I switched and became one of my 'others' and didn't care about anyone around me. I just think some people suffer hugely but also have to 'pretend' (and that is SO hard and for the majority of the time completely impossible) to have a normal life. But to be honest when things are so shit, I don't go near FB because it's stupid in comparison and I don't even know I have FB sometimes until I am me again. So what I am trying to say is I agree with your original post. I just think it caused some upset to a few people.

The opposite end to this thread is about being honest, and that is all I am doing, because I find it impossible to lie, seriously, stuff purges from my mouth and I regret it later (in real life)

I also agree that if we were triggered by this post then we don't have to come back to it. I chose to.

You said this had been on your mind all evening, when I'd finally finished switching yesterday it was on mine too. That's all.

Dice started a thread about 'Act or react' I react, like a lot of Bpd'ers I imagine, and I did to this because it touched a nerve, don't need to repeat why.

I should probably keep my mouth shut, it's done a lot of damage in the last week. But like I say it purges out.