hummm_mabbe Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Hullo So, good news first: I am becoming more confident and assertive. I even spoke at a departmental meeting today in front of the directors. Not a presentation, just spoke a bit, questions and that. Was proud of meself, did it despite feeling very nervous indeed, but gave myself space and things. My boss said I came across well However last night I came home and my landlord had swapped over the internet connections for mine and his computers. He plays online games, and decided his wireless was rubbish and kept cutting out on him. So he gave it to me. He didnt ask or anything, just swapped it over and said he would find a more permanent solution. I come home tonight, and the permanent solution is "you're having the crap one". So utterly surprisingly to me, I got angry. I NEVER get angry - i cow tow and smile and do what everyone else wants, so I can avoid an argument. But instead, I got angry. That was good, I am glad I did. I didnt go nuts, or use names or bad words, but I did tell him why I was pissed off, and that for me is a massive step forward. I was so fed up with always swallowing it every time someone took advantage. I didnt win though - I ended up keeping the wireless, as he assures me I wont notice it unless I am playing online games (its got 'low' connection strength and apparently affects his response times in-game). I just felt like if he had asked me, and explained why, I wouldnt have been so annoyed. But he didnt - he took it, palmed me off with some story about another solution, then decided 'actually, I got what I want, so sod you'. On top of that I now have to deal with the sense of guilt and fear my brain always rewards me with after an argument - you know that sense of "will we actually go back to being friendly, or have I fucked it up totally now" type feeling. Its the fear of that sensation that usually stops me standing up for myself, and its bothering me now. Only thing to do is tolerate it, but mehhh I really dont LIKE it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine001 Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 totally know that last paragraph. I am really proud of you hun, what a day ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonelyheartemma Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Its great to read your becoming more assertive. Even speaking a bit and asking questions can be terrifying. And its great you spoke up to your landlord, he should have asked you first. I hope things are ok with your landlord. It might actualy be better now he knows he cant walk all over you. even if he thinks you are being unreasonable (which you are so not, he is the unreasonable one) he knows you arent always like that and don't go looking for arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BimoUK Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Hey, good on ya for standing up for yourself!! You had every right to get angry about it!! I know the feeling though, not knowing if things will go backe to the way they were before an argument or not, but at the end of the day, you have to do what's right by you, and you most certainly did! I'm also really pleased to hear that things are going well at work for you! Way to go man! I'm proud of ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saharah Blue Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Is your aftermath feelings to do with rejection, like you have asserted yourself and now are open to being rejected in some way (not liked etc..) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 totally know that last paragraph. I am really proud of you hun, what a day ! Thanks Christine Am sorry you get that too, its horrid innit. Then you get a counter-anger, like "I am fed up with being pushed around" type thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Its great to read your becoming more assertive. Even speaking a bit and asking questions can be terrifying. And its great you spoke up to your landlord, he should have asked you first. I hope things are ok with your landlord. It might actualy be better now he knows he cant walk all over you. even if he thinks you are being unreasonable (which you are so not, he is the unreasonable one) he knows you arent always like that and don't go looking for arguments. Hi Emma Thats a good point, yes - I guess sometimes its a case that people walk all over us because we let them. I just wish I felt good about my new found confidence :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Hey, good on ya for standing up for yourself!! You had every right to get angry about it!! I know the feeling though, not knowing if things will go backe to the way they were before an argument or not, but at the end of the day, you have to do what's right by you, and you most certainly did! I'm also really pleased to hear that things are going well at work for you! Way to go man! I'm proud of ya! Hi thanks Mr Bim Yeah I just felt like with this, I needed to say something and not pretend about it. That uneasy feeling is such a weird slippery bugger though, and it hangs around like a really bad smell. Sort of like waiting for the cold freeze or another bomb to drop I suppose. I dont totally understand it yet, as its been something I studiously avoided ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Is your aftermath feelings to do with rejection, like you have asserted yourself and now are open to being rejected in some way (not liked etc..) ? Hi Sah This has been the one area of my psyche that has refused to yield its secrets TBH. Its been a feeling I find so overwhelmingly unpleasant I have just totally avoided it, and in many ways I think it is the keystone of whats bothered me all my life. I think its just the sense of being a truly awful, terrible person. Being totally shameful, so not just rejection but total hatred and disgust type level. Thing is these are just words, I find it very hard to 'feel into' those words, so its difficult to get that feeling of "YES - thats what I am scared of". It just all feels like this hidden scary monster. The only way I have been building up to this is by accepting the feelings and working with them, acting despite them, very much the behavioural / mindfulness approach. I think maybe the more I do this, the more I will learn and perhaps the epiphany will arrive :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 i think its a postitive step forward that you stuck up for yourself ross.well done with the job aswell xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 i think its a postitive step forward that you stuck up for yourself ross.well done with the job aswell xx Hi there Thanks Daisy toots :hug2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverwolf Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Well done on the work front and also on the being assertive front Ross that's excellent! You had right to be angry i would of been pissed off too if a landlord did that! x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saharah Blue Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Is your aftermath feelings to do with rejection, like you have asserted yourself and now are open to being rejected in some way (not liked etc..) ? Hi Sah This has been the one area of my psyche that has refused to yield its secrets TBH. Its been a feeling I find so overwhelmingly unpleasant I have just totally avoided it, and in many ways I think it is the keystone of whats bothered me all my life. I think its just the sense of being a truly awful, terrible person. Being totally shameful, so not just rejection but total hatred and disgust type level. Thing is these are just words, I find it very hard to 'feel into' those words, so its difficult to get that feeling of "YES - thats what I am scared of". It just all feels like this hidden scary monster. The only way I have been building up to this is by accepting the feelings and working with them, acting despite them, very much the behavioural / mindfulness approach. I think maybe the more I do this, the more I will learn and perhaps the epiphany will arrive I have been wondering about this kind of thing too last winter I was not coping at all because of aftermath feelings. I am really curious about them more and more as I am trying to get to place to go back to work myself. I have noticed a pattern in my aftermath feelings when I try and assert my real self/personality, no walling up kinda thing. The running theme was a fear of rejection, I was surprised to actually experience it seep into so many areas of my life, I thought were protected from such thinking. It really fits with the whole BPD model. So, I am trying to work on this now that I have some kind of idea. I too walk in and do my thing like you in your meeting, or asserting yourself with your Landlord without 100% flip out. I suppose that helps the high functioning side in me get by, aftermath feelings tend to be all the self doubts, the real fears I have and these are the ones that seem to be in the actual drivers seat all too often. Another aftermath theme I have talk to people about it, is feeling unworthy to have thoughts and feelings at all. Your talking about feel shame made me think yours might fall more in lines with feeling of unworthiness? I know what you mean about not having defined it enough into words, so instead it remains this swirling gunky feeling that you don't want to grow. I have struggled with having time and place to be the my authentic self, if you want to call it that. I noticed it is a running theme in most peoples lives, which made me feel better but has not gotten me any closer to this fear of rejection, I go to great lengths to avoid, like your hidden scary monster. But I am wondering what is really at the bottom layer so to speak because I think there is something connecting even if the aftermath themes are different there must be a common thread to it all. The only thing I have come up with is a deep need as a human being to be connected to others. (believe me I don't like what I have found) I too am trying to lean into being more present (hoping for a more acceptable epiphany, lol) and mindfully aware and for me applying LK when needed, in the same way really that you apply your bunbuns, its away of soothing yourself and being gentle. I was reading this, When we make the courageous choice to be still, rather than running away, we have the chance to establish a relationship with "what is". Being still in meditation reveals the truth of our lives. The fact is we have never been separate, alone or apart, even my worst enemy and I are not wholly separate. Relieved of this mistaken duality, we witness the falling away of the feelings that flow from ignorance. Feelings of isolation and fear, feelings of fragmentation and alienation drop by the way side. because there is nothing any longer to sustain them or nourish them. -s. salzberg- It gives me some hope, but the whole topic is still really confusing for me, my emotions ping pong all around then just want to give it a rest and go do something else for awhile. :blahblah1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiddi Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Conflict is a horrible thing, and by expressing your anger without swearing or calling names is exactly the right thing to do. Doing conflict 'right' isnt about winning, its about expressing your feelings in a way that can be heard. What he does with your information is down to him, and no reflection on you, or what you have said. He may not have changed the connections, but he does now know how you feel about it. I think you did brilliantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Hi I just wanted to say I am reading the replies, just am so shattered and need to climb into bed now zzzz. Will come back and reply and have a good think about the discussions and things when my brain is working :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonelyheartemma Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 It's difficult to feel good about things when you are depressed anyway but i think it can be hard when you've done something that doesnt feel quite like you. I dont like being asertive either, sometimes its something that has to be done (tho i usually don't do it) but i don't feel like i'm really being me. Its almost like I'm going against who i am by doing certain things and that's not a good feeling. And it doesnt seem like so much of a compliment when I are praised for not being myself. My mum thinks shes paying me a major compliment by saying stuff like you sounded just like your sister when you said that but I dont feel flattered coz i don't want to be my sister, I want to be me and my mum saying that is almost like she's saying there's something wrong with me being how i am and I ought to be different, more like someone else. Its difficult to be happy when you feel you've done something wrong or when you are praised for doing something like that. So Ross, i'm sorry I said what I did, it wasn't a good thing to say at all. I'm glad you were able to step far outside yourself enough to do what needed to be done but i think you are a lovely guy and great as you are. Its just a shame we live in a world where being yourself isn't always enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Well done on the work front and also on the being assertive front Ross that's excellent! You had right to be angry i would of been pissed off too if a landlord did that! x Thanks silverwolf Nice to know am amongst friends :hug2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I have been wondering about this kind of thing too last winter I was not coping at all because of aftermath feelings. I am really curious about them more and more as I am trying to get to place to go back to work myself. I have noticed a pattern in my aftermath feelings when I try and assert my real self/personality, no walling up kinda thing. The running theme was a fear of rejection, I was surprised to actually experience it seep into so many areas of my life, I thought were protected from such thinking. It really fits with the whole BPD model. So, I am trying to work on this now that I have some kind of idea. I too walk in and do my thing like you in your meeting, or asserting yourself with your Landlord without 100% flip out. I suppose that helps the high functioning side in me get by, aftermath feelings tend to be all the self doubts, the real fears I have and these are the ones that seem to be in the actual drivers seat all too often. Another aftermath theme I have talk to people about it, is feeling unworthy to have thoughts and feelings at all. Your talking about feel shame made me think yours might fall more in lines with feeling of unworthiness? I know what you mean about not having defined it enough into words, so instead it remains this swirling gunky feeling that you don't want to grow. I have struggled with having time and place to be the my authentic self, if you want to call it that. I noticed it is a running theme in most peoples lives, which made me feel better but has not gotten me any closer to this fear of rejection, I go to great lengths to avoid, like your hidden scary monster. But I am wondering what is really at the bottom layer so to speak because I think there is something connecting even if the aftermath themes are different there must be a common thread to it all. The only thing I have come up with is a deep need as a human being to be connected to others. (believe me I don't like what I have found) I too am trying to lean into being more present (hoping for a more acceptable epiphany, lol) and mindfully aware and for me applying LK when needed, in the same way really that you apply your bunbuns, its away of soothing yourself and being gentle. I was reading this, When we make the courageous choice to be still, rather than running away, we have the chance to establish a relationship with "what is". Being still in meditation reveals the truth of our lives. The fact is we have never been separate, alone or apart, even my worst enemy and I are not wholly separate. Relieved of this mistaken duality, we witness the falling away of the feelings that flow from ignorance. Feelings of isolation and fear, feelings of fragmentation and alienation drop by the way side. because there is nothing any longer to sustain them or nourish them. -s. salzberg- It gives me some hope, but the whole topic is still really confusing for me, my emotions ping pong all around then just want to give it a rest and go do something else for awhile. Hi there I tried to sit with the feelings and watch how they changed over the evening / morning, and its all quite complex really. Lots of emotions, then reactions to emotions, body states and things. At the moment I am taking the view of just let it unfold, and wait to see if inspiration strikes. Its definitely feelings around simply being a terrible person, who does such bad things that others have no choice but to literally hate and attack me. I get this repeated mental image of a face that is full of hate and disgust. "Rejection" or "worthlessness" doesnt sum it up, it feels much more active. People are not going to like me and they are REALLY going to take action about it. Its sort of like "well we have tolerate you for this time, even though we noticed how arrogant / snippy / stuck up / awkward / weird you are, we said nothing all that time, but now thats it. You've gone too far and now we are gonna let you have it". My inner counter-reaction to that is aversion and anger - like part of me is going "NO! I will not accept that I am a bad person", whilst feeling powerless to convince them otherwise. Its not a CBT type 'challenge' to the thought, its more that I feel its true and am trying to deny it, with little effect. I think that is the source of some of my behaviours in the past - the times I have been in the wrong and rigourously denied it. I could not allow that sense of being a dreaful person, which of course got me into more trouble as people just saw me as not taking responsibility for my actions. So lots of insight and stuff, and in the meatime its just tolerate, tolerate, tolerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Conflict is a horrible thing, and by expressing your anger without swearing or calling names is exactly the right thing to do. Doing conflict 'right' isnt about winning, its about expressing your feelings in a way that can be heard. What he does with your information is down to him, and no reflection on you, or what you have said. He may not have changed the connections, but he does now know how you feel about it. I think you did brilliantly. Thanks Bibiddi, I really appreciate it. I do feel glad I did it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 It's difficult to feel good about things when you are depressed anyway but i think it can be hard when you've done something that doesnt feel quite like you. I dont like being asertive either, sometimes its something that has to be done (tho i usually don't do it) but i don't feel like i'm really being me. Its almost like I'm going against who i am by doing certain things and that's not a good feeling. And it doesnt seem like so much of a compliment when I are praised for not being myself. My mum thinks shes paying me a major compliment by saying stuff like you sounded just like your sister when you said that but I dont feel flattered coz i don't want to be my sister, I want to be me and my mum saying that is almost like she's saying there's something wrong with me being how i am and I ought to be different, more like someone else. Its difficult to be happy when you feel you've done something wrong or when you are praised for doing something like that. So Ross, i'm sorry I said what I did, it wasn't a good thing to say at all. I'm glad you were able to step far outside yourself enough to do what needed to be done but i think you are a lovely guy and great as you are. Its just a shame we live in a world where being yourself isn't always enough. Not to wrry Emma, I am actually very glad I did it, it felt good to actually stand up for myself. The feelings of fear and worry were actually separate to the feeling of empowerment, they just turned up together if that makes sense :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saharah Blue Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Ross, Yeah I can see if what you are kind of up against in this one. Because, the typical response to hate would be a reaction. That is a really tough one to sit with and I can see why you would like shoot'em up games now too. So much judgement in in all of it, who wouldn't want to defend themselves from something that felt so combative. listed reasons others would be fed up with you, but I want to remind you, that you also have a very good sense of humor that breaks down the aspects of you that you feel may be unapproachable. I see you as intelligent and funny even silly, which are all the traits I find cool in a friend anyway. The " angry you" you're writing of I don't perceptive you in this way at all, but I know people behave differently in a work environment or face to face social interaction than they do on the internet. for me, part of the rejection thing I experience is about "being too difficult'. *still exploring this one. I suppose the best thing we can do for the moment is being will to sit with it and take note of what is arising. I think I might print out parts of this to take to T next time if you are okay with that? if not PM me. Ahem...... back to mindfulness. xoxo, Sah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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