Where Does The Stigma Come From?

[~eleanor~]

We all know there is a whole heap of stigma attached to BPD. It is only natural that people with the disorder are going to be rattled by this (I have a diagnoses of BPD).

The stigma has pissed me off but I am at a place now where I am trying to beat the stigma, not let the stigma beat me!

Where has the stigma come from, though?! I mean, doctors and stuff can't have just made it up...and I KNOW I have been a manipulating, attention seeking nightmare.

It is very black and white, the stigma - how ironic people (doctors, nurses, mental health people) think, 'they have BPD, they must be a nightmare' - they cannot see that we are not a nightmare all of the time.

We meet a set of criteria and those criteria need to be witnessed and observed and described by us.

I just wonder where the stigma arose from. And do I have a right to be angry and hurt by it when I have been all those things.

I guess I can be disgruntled at the black and white view - that they can't see that I wasn't a nightmare all the time, and that by treating me in a way that expected me to kick off just made me fulfill that expectation, as I did not possess the insight to behave otherwise. Now I am on a mission for myself - I am not doing the opposite of what others expect, I am merely doing what I want to make a success of my life.

I am rambling. What are peoples opinions on this? please, don't take offence. I am merely interested and curious

E x

[manja.]

hi hun

i don't know where the stigma came from, but on reading your post i thought of this which I think is related and I thought was good.

Sorry I don't have much advice or thoughts on it though. I'm still relatively new to it all. xx

[donnam]

i am bpd, and now if ppl ask i tell them the best i can, infact i tell them before i permit them to become a friend, because as some one on here said (cant remember who sorry) if they cant cope with my bad days, they dont deserve my good days! it is so true. when i am well i will do anything for anyone, always there for them etc, reliable, supportive etc.

[catsmother21]

I think the stigma comes from inflammatory media stories, ignorance and a general feeling that anyone with MH problems has the ability to flip out and do something awful.

I have read some stuff on the web as well which says that if you meet someone with BPD, turn around and run as fast as you can, that we are a complete nightmare and can never be 'cured'.

So, yep, I think the media and the web are the biggest problems.

[pepsimeg]

I dont care about stupid labels any more i am me - end of it - accept me for who i am not what label the drs choose to slap on me

andy

[CaTsEyEs]

I think for a long time is was not agreed if BPD was an illness or not. I remember a long stint in psyche hospital once and a nurse saying to me, "Mostly you can put people in prisons or psyche units in to groups of mad, sad or bad" BPD I suppose was bad not mad, or maybe sad, I dunno. I think people with BPD are more complex or perhaps they aren't but their issues are. I also think there is a reluctance to change which is quickly projected leaving doctors nurses therapists etc feeling at a loss.

I will be honest some of the level of overdosing I have seen people talk about here I am astonished, I cannot fathom the regularity, the lack of accepting any help yet being in continual crisis. Asking the forum if they should complain over some small error when they are unlikely to ever see this person again. Night after night of calling the Samaritans or crisis team. Lucid enough to live when they want to, it almost seems like some of the attention seeking behaviour is born out of boredom.

I think back to a time when I OD'ed monthly, I can remember that pain. I can understand the way the crisis team act sometimes. I stopped hurting myself so frequently and with such danger and drama because I wanted to.

I am not sure with other mental illness you have that degree of choice?

It wasn't easy and I find myself wanting to grab some of the younger members that are in an overdosing, crisis team cycle and hug them, as I suppose that is all I wanted, that and something to comfort me when that awful pain struck. I think you have to get yourself out of it, you will need help, but you will have to trust people in a way you may never have allowed yourself to before. You have to learn a self control about your thoughts and your past, your temper and your attitude. And....... whenever we are told this we are getting ready to write that complaint.

It is hard when the truth is so insulting .

[Data]

With BPD, the issues are integrated into your personality. A person with depression changes when they get depressed. In contrast, someone with BPD has probably always had problems, since childhood. BPD isn't an illness as such... its more like a type of person. And I think this leads to greater stigma than with other mental health problems.

In the past, BPD was thought to be incurable. People were just written off and ignored, or even worse, told to go away and kill themselves..... Now there are effective treatments, but there are still a lot of people out their with old-fashioned attitudes.

Also, it has to be said that a lot of people with BPD have difficult "acting out" behaviour. They can be manipulative, destructive and volatile. A lot of people with BPD are in prison or are substance abusers. It can be scary for an outsider to be around someone who is OK one minute, but then suddenly is dragging other people into their world of pain by their actions. BPD people behave destructively for good reasons, they are like this because they have never learned any different, like has taught them that these things are the way to deal with their problems. But the problem is that outsiders don't always understand, they can be ignorant and ignorance feeds prejudice, discrimination and judgement.

I think that in the past, there was a huge stigma and mystery surrounding mental health problems. Now, a lot of that stigma has lifted and they are much more accepted. However, personality disorders are the exception to this: the stigma has not lifted for BPD, and other PDs. Which is odd really, BPD is more common than schizophrenia, for example.

[Fuck-My-Life]

Hiya, I can definitely see where you are coming from. I have BPD too, and depression.

I personally believe the stigma comes from a variety of different sources, not just one. Ignorance of medical staff (I have first hand evidence because I am in the healthcare industry!), the media, internet etc. There is a particularly awful site on the net (BPD Family, I think its called?) which personally I find disgusting in the way it is written about people with the disorder. It appears very discriminating and rude, and no I'm not just saying that as a sufferer. There are many medical staff who are lovely about it, but there are also many who arent. Seriously cant say just how much I hated ringing NHS24 in the past, more so if I was in crisis. Touchwood, that hasnt happened for a long while now, but when it did, and the nurse came on the phone, she would read out "So you have a diagnosis of depression and Borderline Personality Disorder"?, and it was as though her attitude changed completely, no joke. E.g, beforehand, she was all "there there, I'm sorry you are suicidal", next it was sighs, huffs and puffs when I was trying to say the exact problem, not to mention having my sentences finished for me.

My GP is great, as he doesnt believe in placing labels on people, and its thanks to him that I have managed to get along so well. Last year, I did fall into crisis at uni and had a really bigoted Occupational Health dr, who said things like "Your diagnosis doesnt bode well for your degree". I soon showed him this year by getting As and Bs and passing all I needed to for the next step!

I have found work colleagues tend to labelise and stigmatise BPD. I work with people who have BPD as well, and so I can help alot. But some work colleagues refer to an individual as "the PD" or "so and so was having a tantrum today, attention seeking as usual".

When I say media as well, I did hear that the nurse Beverley Allitt, who murdered some children at a hospital she worked in, had BPD too (either that or Munchuasens). You can imagine if it came out fully to all my classmates on my healthcare course, the reaction I would get.

Sadly, I have lost friends from the diagnosis. One was a total bitch when drunk; I had sent her an email explaining about it, what it feels like etc. Stupid cow decides to forward it to her Mum, who called me an attention seeker. Sigh. She was an idiot anyway. The good thing is, my best friend knows, and he said he likes and accepts me for me :)

[toaster]

I think personality disorders have the stigma because of things such as psychopathy, narcissism and of course, borderline - they are all volatile disorders, erratic and emotional or lacking emotion. You hear that people in prison have a personality disorder.

Data I appreciate what you say but you speak as though you have medical experience. There are lots of people on this forum with BPD but we are all different people entirely.

A schizophrenic does not have the same hallucinations as another schizophrenic. A white man does not look the same as another white man. I am sure, although I find empathy, understanding and I can relate to people here, our experiences and reasons for wanting to do things are different. 2 people may overdose but the reasons behind those overdoses are different.

I don't like the way people say 'I am BPD' - I guess it is your choice but I now hate to be defined by a label. I am Louise, I am a student, a volunteer, a mother, a partner...I also happen to have a diagnoses of BPD (which I disagree with, but I guess that is me being 'BPD' )

There is lots of stigma surrounding lots of things. There still is stigma surrounding, say, schizophrenia. We speak a lot of mental health here, it being a MH site and all but other people just don't know - why would they?! I know bugger all about diabetes, sickle cell disease, cancer, DVT - I have no reason to know of these things. So why should Jo Bloggs be expected to know of emotional or mental disorders when their life is not affected by them?

I am going on. Only we can change the stigma by NOT being all they say. But I have found, as Eleanor says, I have often fulfilled what people expect of me. And until I can change that, I feel as though I have no right to complain.

[CaTsEyEs]

I do think we have to accept that most people with BPD do attention seek, do have tantrums and do manipulate to have their emotional needs met.

I can remember being sectioned on the back a huge tantrum that I kept up for about 4 hours! It was a tantrum.

It isn't nice to admit but I don't really think there is a nice way of honestly saying it.

[CaTsEyEs]

So why should Jo Bloggs be expected to know of emotional or mental disorders when their life is not affected by them?

That is a very valid point and a kinda anger that people with BPD have, "WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE UNDERSTAND".

I agree aswell, I have a diagnosis but that is not the main thing about me.

[toaster]

Sadly, I have lost friends from the diagnosis. One was a total bitch when drunk; I had sent her an email explaining about it, what it feels like etc. Stupid cow decides to forward it to her Mum, who called me an attention seeker. Sigh. She was an idiot anyway. The good thing is, my best friend knows, and he said he likes and accepts me for me

hey fml

THIS IS NOT ME JUDGING OR HAVING A GO

I just wondered - why did you send the e-mail if it wasn't to get attention? don't we all need attention? the mum may have been wrong in calling u an attention seeker in a negative way, but u emailed ur friend to make her aware, which is a form of attention?

please, dont take me the wrong way.

[Fuck-My-Life]

Hi Toasts,

Well, beforehand, I had really gone off about the OH doc, as I mentioned in my previous thread. I remember the group who me and the girl hung around with were in the canteen at uni and I really ranted about him, called him a c*** (and I only use that word whenever someone makes my blood boil ) I then went into the department store where the girl worked to meet her and catch up (as we werent going to see her for Freshers week), and she started questioning my behaviour, as the group had said I seemed "very aggressive" and she started challenging me on what I was doing then (dating older guys). I said, look as long as I am happy and not doing harm, why should it bother you? She agreed, then I said I would send her an email regarding my diagnosis. She knew about my depression and was very sympathetic as her Dad had had it... then I suppose I took that risk. I didnt see it as attention seeking, I saw it as trying to inform and provide info, in order that she could get a perspective of what its like to have it. Obviously, her being hammered on wine didnt help matters, thankfully she didnt blurt it out to everyone, just drunkenly giggled about it like it was a big joke, to me. I made a mistake in telling her, obviously was too trusting.

I remember a status someone put on their FB about mental illness once; it was really good, mentioned something like "dont judge, if you want to know more, ask", so I thought that by providing more info I was alleviating the stigma, but clearly it backfired... :(

[toaster]

I guess we shouldn't expect people to 'want to know' - they will ask if they are curious.

It's why I don't tell anyone. I have a 'mood disorder'. Yes, I am ashamed of my diagnoses.

[CaTsEyEs]

Why are you ashamed?

[toaster]

Because of the attached stigma and knowing it isn't really stigma for me but fact. Well, not so much now, but in the past...

I told my college tutor, in confidence, of my 'real' diagnoses (BPD) and she was adamant that wasn't me - as though saying it to make me feel better, 'no, you do not seem like a BPD'er' - you know, the tone implying BPD is a bad thing (you had to be there, not me being paranoid lol ).

Her reaction was meant to be nice and make me feel better but all it did was make me feel defensive, angry and highly offended. All of this bottled in though - I changed the subject I think.

[CaTsEyEs]

I've always embraced the stigma.

I will prove I have BPD and I am your worst nightmare.

I will prove I have BPD and am quite ok.

[toaster]

oo ihave done that

'u think im a nightmare? u think im insane? u aint seen nothin darlin'...

ASHAMED

[Data]

Data I appreciate what you say but you speak as though you have medical experience. There are lots of people on this forum with BPD but we are all different people entirely.

I have never claimed to have medical experience, and I am offended by your reply as it suggests I am trying to be something that I am not. I am just a sufferer/service-user who has read a few books and done a lot of thinking and spoken to quite a few people and had a lot of therapy, thats got to count for something.

I am also offended at the second part of the sentence: I've never suggested that everyone with BPD is the same. People with BPD have common characteristics, and its those characteristics (which I have seen in others, read about, and seen in myself) that I am trying to describe. If they didn't have common characteristics, then BPD wouldn't exist as a disorder!

[toaster]

no it wouldnt exist as a disorder but common characteristics do not mean the same. u could say that about ANY illness or disorder. u made comments such as 'a lot of people with bpd' an u didnt suggest things, u STATED that issues are intergrated. thats what i was referring to.

anyway this isnt my topic, altho its an intersting one...ima wait for eleanor to come back b4 looking again, im sure she doesnt want her topic sidetracked or disagreements made on it

take care all

[AndyL]

Couple of reasons in my experience:

1. People fear what they don't understand;

2. It has to be said: people with BPD can be very difficult to deal with on a day-to-day basis.

All you have to do is look at the diagnosis. Just the "personality disorder" part is enough to give most healthy people pause. They wonder what they're in for. They're pretty sure it won't be pleasant. There's the stigma right there. That's why I always advise never let your employer know about your mental health issues. The minute you do you have a target on your forehead.

[piuma]

get ya point there andy, but i have to disagree, and say that people should tell their employers, or rather each case is individual, not telling, and then going into a crisis could lead you down the path of no support and losing your job.

[CaTsEyEs]

I gotta say honesty is the best policy in most everything in life.

[addy2]

I totally understand this i feel i attention seek out of boredom and the fear that they will leave me if i don't need them as much, i try so hard to be the sensible one and not act out and i never tell anyone that i have BPD even a mental health group i am joining i wouldn't let my social worker tell them i have BPD. I also agree with the fact that its hard for me to change because at times i really don't want too i feel like a defiant child and i am like don't tell me what to do. I often wonder does my therapist just put up with me to keep me quiet i try not to be demanding i try not to phone him unless i need him but its bound to be frustrating for him offering support to someone who isn't getting any better. I am so afraid of the stigma because i have met a psychiatrist and a social worker who both made me feel like i shouldn't even be alive and that i was worth nothing so i won't be telling anyone.

[CaTsEyEs]

You know, I just wanna do a little dance sometimes and say " I am whatever, but the thing is I am not aiming not to have BPD I am aiming to be happy and have great happy kids".

It is sad that some people that should have been helpful have made the feeling of shame even bigger. Karma, that is another topic running at the moment!

We are not bad people, bad things happened to us.