annielou89 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 i have disclosed to both college and my employer, and both have given me occy health assessments to make sure i'm getting the support i need to make sure i don't get put under additional stress. so personally i think disclosing is a good thing. as for the stigma, i think it comes from a mix of media hype and peoples' fear of the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaTsEyEs Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 i have disclosed to both college and my employer, and both have given me occy health assessments to make sure i'm getting the support i need to make sure i don't get put under additional stress. so personally i think disclosing is a good thing. as for the stigma, i think it comes from a mix of media hype and peoples' fear of the unknown. Wise words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrippleAndStarfish Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 ....... and do manipulate to have their emotional needs met. Not read everyone's replies here, but just got to this and wanted to ask something. No digs, at all, but just a question for you CaTsEyEs, and for anyone else who might want to answer.... If it's already been pointed out, I apologise..... Is it just people with BPD who do this? And, what is manipulation? Just done a quick google, and the first definition is this - 1. To move, arrange, operate, change or control an object, position, or situation. I think the key between the way "normal" people manipulate situations and the way those with BPD are seen to manipulate situations is that with those with BPD, how they go about this is usually in an emotionally-charged/driven and sometimes chaotic way. To use an often bandied-about term referring to BPD - "I hate you, don't leave me!" someone ends a relationship, the person with BPD says something along the lines of "if you leave me, i will hurt myself", or thinks that and acts accordingly, in an attempt to make them NOT leave. I realise that this is an example that is often given and for me causes upset, because, in truth, it is close to the bone for me. I've acted in such a way before, and I see it for being the manipulative act that it is. Because of this, and because part of me still doesn't want to accept that, I become angry, upset, etc. ...whereas! Generally people who are more able to control their emotions and impulses, have a steadier/more secure sense of self and don't experience such an intense terror with regards to abandonment (issues that as i think we all are aware are pretty central to Borderline Personality Disorder), are more able to manipulate those around them in more... covert?... ways. It isn't as out-and-out as "you do x, I'll hurt myself", rather is more likely for the "threat" to be a subtext to other behaviours and words, they can be much more subtle with it. for me, this way seems much... colder.... I'm not quite sure why though... I think it's something to do with that it implies deliberation on their part... I think i'll have a think about this. This is just my views on it... Anyone else want to share theirs? I'd be really interested to hear them. xxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 gotta be quick, on me way out 'we are not bad ppl we had bad things happen to us' - i agree BUT i HAVE done bad things. both can be true, i can have had bad things happen to me and have been a bad person. doesnt make me bad through and through, although that is something i have to repeat to myself, but i have done bad things. crippie u make some great points. and i get that everyone manipulates. but the thing is, the more 'covert' ways of manipulating are seen as ok, acceptable. threatening to hurt ourselves when someone leaves just isnt acceptable and im not surprised ppl have binned me off in the past. its all self fulfilling shit innit?! we're scared theyll leave so we threaten to do whatever or behave however and we scare them away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrippleAndStarfish Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 yep, completely self-fullfilling, that's why it causes so much hurt and we see ourselves stuck in this cycle and with the beliefs of "everyone leaves in the end", sometimes with "everyone leaves in the end anyway, so what's the point in trying?" We're right in thinking that, based on our experiences. But when we gain the insight that yes, in the past people have walked away... and realise that often a lot of the time that they haven't done so without a hefty shove from us... that is where our hopes are, because once you have that awareness, that is when we're more fully able to address the issues that lead us to repeating these cycles, and in doing so actually gain the ability to change these things. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piuma Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 just a thought, how does anything get a stigma or strong opinions? There is usually a reason, I aint saying they are right, just, well, they aren't fabricated either xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addy2 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I agree i am not a bad person but i do things i shouldn't if people don't listen and i threaten to do things if i feel they aren't listening, i agree Crippie its because i have no sense of who i am and i can't be on my own i am even so attached to my therapist as well i try to get him to care and listen to me by doing things i shouldn't but he never changes he stays there for me no matter what but he never steps over it he holds back and doesn't give me what i want which is driving me crazy and pushing me further. Sorry i just waffled i am tired. I am trying to make sense of BPD i was only recently dx and i still disagree with them but the more i understand about it i can see alot of it probably is me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 We all know there is a whole heap of stigma attached to BPD. It is only natural that people with the disorder are going to be rattled by this (I have a diagnoses of BPD). The stigma has pissed me off but I am at a place now where I am trying to beat the stigma, not let the stigma beat me! Where has the stigma come from, though?! I mean, doctors and stuff can't have just made it up...and I KNOW I have been a manipulating, attention seeking nightmare. It is very black and white, the stigma - how ironic people (doctors, nurses, mental health people) think, 'they have BPD, they must be a nightmare' - they cannot see that we are not a nightmare all of the time. We meet a set of criteria and those criteria need to be witnessed and observed and described by us. I just wonder where the stigma arose from. And do I have a right to be angry and hurt by it when I have been all those things. I guess I can be disgruntled at the black and white view - that they can't see that I wasn't a nightmare all the time, and that by treating me in a way that expected me to kick off just made me fulfill that expectation, as I did not possess the insight to behave otherwise. Now I am on a mission for myself - I am not doing the opposite of what others expect, I am merely doing what I want to make a success of my life. I am rambling. What are peoples opinions on this? please, don't take offence. I am merely interested and curious E x manipulation and attention seaking are traits that parents try to 'train' children out of (generally speaking-no accusing anyone) they are traditionally thought of as bad behaviour in children despite being natural and i guess that generation of adults dislike these traits in adults also therefore judgeing and criticing anyone displaying them, as bpd is known for these traits (amoung others) then stigma is created Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~eleanor~ Posted August 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 just a thought, how does anything get a stigma or strong opinions? There is usually a reason, I aint saying they are right, just, well, they aren't fabricated either xxxx THIS is exactly what I was meaning, Pie. What is the reason? It can't have been made up or anything, surely? Thanks for all your replies! Lots to think about :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaTsEyEs Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Manipulation. Everyone does it, we have to, it is a survival skill. Some people are manipulative in a negative sense as they are running a scam or are con artists. Mainly people without BPD manipulate I think to reach goals without discord. I think people with BPD will manipulate with self harm or threats of self harm. So someone with BPD could have a psychiatric appointment and decide to cut their hands or low down their arms so the doctor sees it. The ideal place for that to move to is to have a good enough doctor to feel you can say, "I feel like cutting myself, I am struggling". I think people with and without BPD often use manipulation as a form of communication. I have taken many overdoses because I wanted to tell the world to "fuck off". Often read on here or other sites, my boyfriend has gone out and I am having flashbacks and I can't breathe. I don't doubt these things are happening, but I think they have been invited in to the mind to demonstrate to the boyfriend that you can't go out without me as I am not safe. It is creating a reason as opposed to saying the words," I feel scared and rejected and alone when you go out". So it is a kinda acting out what people don't feel is reasonable to say. I think if you start using words and give up using actions then you are on a path that will lead you away from constant crisis. I know myself I didn't want to leave that place for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 For me, I had to reach a point where I could say to my doctor, 'I wanted to cut myself so you would keep me on' I also told my social worker, when she was assigned to me, that I may go into crisis quite soon after meeting her, just to 'prove' I needed the service - but because I told her this, the crisis was avoided because she would have known the reasons why I am not saying that I haven't had 'real' crises - but I got so lost in what the crises could get me - love, care, affection, ATTENTION, lack of responsibility - that I forgot how I felt in the first place. I ended up needing therapy to undo all the negative behaviours to reach my core again. Group therapy worked wonders but it really just got me ready for 1-2-1, for me to be honest. Now it's going to take time to undo all those behaviours plus working on what got me here in the first place I was hell bent on blaming everyone around me for my feelings. But then they (people) all went away and I still blamed them, blamed them for leaving me I manipulated my own mind Bah. Rambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaTsEyEs Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Toaster, the main one I forgot, I took alot of overdoses for attention. I was willing to put my life at considerable risk for attention. Or maybe it all showed exactly how I felt at the time. I remember being in hospital and a nurse saying that the only way the devil would leave me alone is if I left the devil alone. That kinda triggers me now, but it was those little tips that gave me clarity to see what I was doing, because at the time I really didn't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I KNOW I have been a manipulating, attention seeking nightmare. It is very black and white, the stigma - how ironic people (doctors, nurses, mental health people) think, 'they have BPD, they must be a nightmare' - they cannot see that we are not a nightmare all of the time. I know I have played up to the stereotype of a Borderline whilst in therapy, almost like I knew I could get away with it. I have never really noticed any stigma though as I have only really had MH experience with a specific PD department of the NHS. Most other people I know have no clue what BPD even is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily-Bee Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I think the image of bpd in the media and what people know about it is one sided.Its the picture of a very manipulative,raging person etc I dont fit in that box and many dont.My cousin studied psychology,Im very very close to her and when I told her I have bod she said NO! that cant be true,you are calm,you dont rage,youre easy to be around,you dont demand loads of attention,you dont go into extremes in your thinking etc etc Yet I really do have bpd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaTsEyEs Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Or do you? Do any of us? 1 doctor says that and that is it. Some go to another doctor get a different diagnosis. I dunno, I think that is why I don't feel it matters so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeyflower Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I think it is just a label,It is something I don't really think about it much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily-Bee Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I accept the label for whatever its worth,I always feel though CPTSD would suit me better,but whatever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 CPTSD What is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annielou89 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 2 doctors have agreed in my case. in fact every one i've seen has agreed. so must be textbook! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeyflower Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 CPTSD What is that? Complex post-traumatic stress disorder I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFenix Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Firstly I think that there's a large stigma against all mental health problems regadless of what they are, even something as unthreatening to others as depression. It scares people, your mind is your safe place, your centre of being, it is what you are. The idea that what you are can become ill is what mental illness represents, a direct threat to the fabric of your existence. For some people even death is less frightening. So people don't understand and they don't want to understand fo fear that they will somehow be infected by such understanding. Bipolar I think gets alot of flak because it's the one chaotic celebrities are always getting diagnosed with as opposed to depression but all mental health problems terrify people into ignorance. The fact is though that the truth of mental health issues is actually far more terrifying than any of the misunderstandings surrounding them. If you believe in souls, gods and demons the best way to describe the effects of a mental health problem is that a demon is twisting, cutting up and devouring your soul. I've been through some terrible mental health problems and even written a book about them and they still scare me if I'm honest. There's a reason most people with seious mental health issues contemplate suicide as a merciful alternative to living. We live in the dark, we live in a world of demons and somehow we've all found the strength to go on and live our lives here, making the fight against mental health problems and their associated stigma our lives. But anyway, enough of my ramblings. Still, we do rock.... XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 I think the image of bpd in the media and what people know about it is one sided.Its the picture of a very manipulative,raging person etc I dont fit in that box and many dont.My cousin studied psychology,Im very very close to her and when I told her I have bod she said NO! that cant be true,you are calm,you dont rage,youre easy to be around,you dont demand loads of attention,you dont go into extremes in your thinking etc etc Yet I really do have bpd. how have u got bpd then? all that you DONT have are the classic symptoms of bpd, especially the extremes in thinking and mood but i think i have cptsd also damn doctors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewchocolate Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 I have not read the full discussion but I have found that people are in general are ok about things if you are open to them. Like, I don't mind people asking me about my BPD and I answer how it affects me but I am different from other people who have the "label" so I explain that too. Why the hell should I feel shame or stigma, I have a problem I am trying to fix that problem by working hard with my psychologist, Pdoc and key worker. Everyone in the world has a problem of some sort and if anyone has a problem with someone with BPD then they are stupid uneducated twats. I don't broadcast that I have BPD but I don't mind people asking me about it because it is a normal thing. Of course you get stupid people who want to project that stigma on me but screw them, if they are that stupid I have no time for them. I also don't define myself as someone with BPD, I am student, a loving uncle to my cute little niece and nephew, a son, a brother, parent to my little kitten and I hope a nice person - these are things that are more important to me because those are the things that really do define me. I had a conversation with someone were they did not want to go to the doctors because they thought they would come out with a mental health label but the person that walked into the doctors office is the same person that walks about. But the benefit is that they could work on getting around their difficulties and moving on to new things with less distress. So it makes me angry that its all a "secret", some people want to keep it private but really there is no need to ashamed of anything. You are who you are! I am Lewis and I have BPD I also have dyslexia so sorry about the errors but that is me and hopefully you get what I am trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaTsEyEs Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 parent to my little kitten You are cool and I would never have known you were dyslexic. Jack what you wrote is so powerful. I love passion, I agree with you also and you have made me reflect about society's fears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewchocolate Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I love Izzy my Kitten she is just mental and likes to sit on my head lol (it hurts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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