TooSensitive Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Is Compulsive Lying & Stealing Common For Those With BPD? My own husband awaits an upcoming psychiatrist appointment, which I will be attending with him. I believe he is going to be diagnosed with BPD, and perhaps a few other things (or something along those lines). I am starting to understand that his mental illness is the reason behind so many of his behaviors and actions, esp. b/c I too am mentally ill (bipolar). However, it is difficult for me, b/c I don’t have that same history of lying, compulsive or otherwise; and I don’t have a history of stealing. My own emotions, as a loved one, have swung from shock, to sadness, to anger (fortunately, not out-of-control or explosive), to feeling betrayed by his ongoing deceit, to feeling fear that though he claims he has stopped, he either hasn’t, or has, but won’t stop for long. And then, I feel this incredible closeness to him, b/c he has let down so many walls in a matter of days, which then allows me to feel hopeful. But, my only hope is that since my h has now admitted to at least some of his lies and wrongdoing, and since he is actively taking steps in seeking help for himself in the form of professional treatment, that he will eventually get well (as I have managed to do myself already). I also know that it will be a process, esp. b/c the personality disorders and the dissociative disorders are so much harder to not only diagnose, but also, to treat. We may start out being told one thing, only to be told another later on. My h also has a heartbreaking history of severe trauma that began in childhood and continued on into adulthood. He is only now, at the age of 53, realizing that help is available to him, if he seeks that out for himself. Who knows how much of this is “nature”, and how much of this is “nurture”. And does it even matter, at this stage of the game? There are huge problems that need to be addressed and resolved, once and for all. I do realize that the “whys” and the root causes can be instrumental in providing understanding, and therefore, in correcting, “fixing”, whatever is wrong. You can’t fix a leaky pipe, if you don’t know where the leak is coming from. I struggle with my dual roles of not only being “affected” myself with mental illness, but also, of being a loved one of someone who also seems to be “affected”. I am affected, and I am also the loved one of someone who is affected. It only complicates matters even more. And, my teenage son is affected as well. It becomes difficult to sort out and separate what is “my” stuff and what is “their” stuff. Since my h has not been in treatment for his mental illness, his behaviors and inappropriate actions have continued on – and some of those went undetected for a time, b/c he had been hiding things from me. I don’t yet know all there is to know, but based upon what I do already know, I do hold him responsible and accountable (what I do already know had been discovered by me and then disclosed by him; I told him I had concrete proof, “evidence”, if you will; and that I would not be fully invested in our marriage again until he “confessed”). I might understand why he has done some of the things he has, but at the same time, I cannot excuse what he’s done. We can blame it on his mental illness and his history of trauma for the time being, but at some point, my h must take ownership, make amends, and get himself well, for both our sakes, if we have any chance of surviving as a couple. Only he will be to blame, if he does not seek out treatment for himself, and further, if he does not do the necessary work involved. On one hand, I understand. On the other, I cannot excuse. It is hard for me to understand why he never sought help for himself, when he seemed to know right from wrong, yet could not stop himself from committing acts which were terribly wrong. I am trying to look at the most important part, and the big picture – which is that now, he is finally seeking help for himself. He has also told me he has put a stop to his inappropriate behaviors and actions, and he is glad I “found out” and then confronted him. He did tell me that even if I hadn’t, it would only have been a matter of time, before he himself chose to come to me on his own – b/c things were starting to feel too out-of-control for him, and things were starting to really get to him. I knew this on some level, b/c he had started waking up in the middle of the night, on a regular basis. It was obvious that something was getting to him. I thought it was his job, b/c that’s what he led me to believe. Yet if this was so, then why would he not talk to me about it? I later learned it was b/c he had so much he was hiding from me, that he was ashamed to talk about. I have recently read that what is underneath compulsive lying is a lack of emotional regulation. I have also read that a lack of emotional regulation is a symptom of BPD (I think). I realize he may also have one (or more?) of the other personality disorders, or he may have one or more instead. The dissociative disorders could also be at play here. My understanding is that they are all difficult to diagnose, and that his diagnosis may start out as one (or more) things, only to change along the way. I always knew – I always had the “sense” – that my h was still lying to me. If he wasn’t telling me an outright lie to my face, then he was lying by omission. He has withheld some major information from me. He has basically been leading a double life, that only caught up with him b/c my gut was screaming at me, and when it does, I go in search of answers in an effort to find out why. I found out why. My h’s double life involved him stealing. I won’t get into what or how. I will just say I’ve discovered he’s been stealing, and leave it at that. I always try to find the silver lining. The upside to all this is that my h has come clean on what has happened this year, at least; and, he is taking steps in the right direction to get well. He will still need to come clean on everything that has happened not only since we met, but also, on everything that has happened in his past. He will still need to formulate and then follow a treatment plan, with the psychiatrist’s recommendations, I assume. Lying and stealing go hand-in-hand, of course. If you steal, you further lie about that, b/c you know that stealing is not acceptable behavior. You lie about it to those who will not be accepting of it, unless they are fellow criminals. There is a person with BPD who is also a member of my support group, and I know this person has a history of shoplifting (and therefore lying), but as far as I know, she is “reformed”. Is compulsive lying and stealing common for those with BPD? Or at least the case for some? I hope I am not breaking any rules by asking this question. I tried to find guidelines or rules to follow here, but I came up empty-handed. I am not altogether computer-savvy, and they may be staring me in the face, for all I know (I also think I have ADHD, which makes it difficult to focus on things and sort out things, when there is too much information in front of me, such as is the case on most websites). I am not asking the question in an effort to find people to judge. It is actually easier for me to be more open-minded and avoid judgment of people I don’t know, vs. people who are closer to me. I am only trying to have more of an understanding of just why my h has chosen to lie and steal as much as he has. I am trying to get more of an understanding of BPD as well, b/c as I’ve said, I believe he may suffer from this, and that he will subsequently receive a diagnosis of this. Thank you for reading my post, and thank you in advance for any replies given. I apologize if I have crossed any lines here. I am fairly new, so I am still trying to learn my way around. I also tend to be wordy, whether that is due to my mental illness (bipolar), possible ADHD, or my love of writing and journaling…so if you have read entirely through, I do appreciate your time in doing so. Other than my therapist, I don’t have anywhere else to go to talk about “this”. I don’t even feel comfortable mentioning what’s been going on when at my support group, other than in a very vague way. I don’t want others to judge my h, if and when they happen to cross paths (which they do, when we have social functions outside of our meetings). I cannot tell family or friends about “this”, either. Thank you again for any insight you can offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I think compulsive lying and stealing is a sign of a weak and deceitful person. Personality disorder or not, bad childhood or not. Lying and stealing is just that, lying and stealing. Sorry if that sounds abrupt or rude but that is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine001 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Sorry hun, just couldnt read your full post as poorly today but I dont think lying is a trait of bpd, specifically, I wondered more about what he is lying about or covering up because the reason why he lies may have something to do with insecurity or self destructive behaviour and I guess this could be linked to bpd. So maybe trying to see behind the lies might give some answers, however, we are all responsible for our behavior so I am not saying this is an excuse for lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starryeyesee Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hi I read your post. The DSM-IV criteria for diagnosing someone with BPD used to include shoplifting. It may not be part of his personality disorder but he sounds as if he has been lying and stealing to punish himself - it hurts you and so it hurts him. It is part of self destructive behaviour. I hope therapy works out for him and welcome to the forum starry x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starryeyesee Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I think compulsive lying and stealing is a sign of a weak and deceitful person. Personality disorder or not, bad childhood or not. Lying and stealing is just that, lying and stealing. Sorry if that sounds abrupt or rude but that is my opinion. I have lied and stolen in the past because I was hurting does that make me a weak and deceitful person? The person who posted this said she was not judging so I don't think you have any right to judge back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowlinglioness Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 personally i dont think it is a bpd trait. it could be signs of another pd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnam Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 i dont think it is a bpd trait, u wil find a lot of ppl here with the bpd diagnoses, that dont lie or steal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I think compulsive lying and stealing is a sign of a weak and deceitful person. Personality disorder or not, bad childhood or not. Lying and stealing is just that, lying and stealing. Sorry if that sounds abrupt or rude but that is my opinion. I have lied and stolen in the past because I was hurting does that make me a weak and deceitful person? The person who posted this said she was not judging so I don't think you have any right to judge back Nothing is black and white and my response was very blunt. I have my beliefs and I don't want to offend anyone intentionally. We can all hypothesise and come up with some viable reasons why a person my lie or steal and there always are going to be situations that fall outside of our normality. In answer to the question regarding personality disorder or mental illness being excuses for lying or stealing I don't think so. I do think when people are in a flurried psychotic state then of course your responsibility is not intact as is your mind. Lying and stealing is something most of us have done at some point in our life, it is the extent I suppose that is relevant. I didn't think I was judging I thought I was giving my opinion as the person that made the post asked. Not quite asthough I barged in, demanded info and said I don't agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlylight1 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 i used to know somebody who was a compulsive liar i think it was an expression of poor self esteem. but it hurt me and made me question a lot about our friendship and other trust issues. as long as i knew her she was fully functioning in every other way and no history of depression or other mental health problems. so in that case it wasn't to do with bpd or anything. i hope things get easier for u soon xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlylight1 Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I have lied and stolen in the past because I was hurting i've done exactly the same starry, i don't think it makes someone a bad person xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Please can I just say, I don't think anyone is a bad person. I seem to have written alot and insulted alot. I have lied and stolen in my life too. I was replying in reaction to the original post, that was all.xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hey, I haven't read all of your post, it's very long! I did read some and obviously the title. I have also read some replies and am feeling a little defensive I have lied. Mainly to get attention or cover up bad things I did. I think everyone has told at least ONE lie in their life. I think it is the extent of the lies and how much they hurt people is what matters. When I lied the person I was hurting most was me. I was so used to negative attention that I continued the cycle of getting attention through negative measures. I used to shoplift on a regular basis. I didn't even need the stuff, it was a thrill for me, something perhaps to distract me. I was never caught. Maybe if I was caught I would have stopped sooner than I did. I have also stolen money from people. This I am deeply ashamed of. I have got in touch with some of the people I stole from and apologised and offered to pay the money back when I have it. That was incredibly hard for me and I was fortunate that the people I approached were willing to forgive me. There are studies to suggest that people who have been sexually abused are more likely to steal, perhaps as a way to either distract themselves from the awful things that are happening or perhaps to get caught and get the attention they need. I'm not saying these things are 'ok' or that it is 'ok' because I have been abused or have a diagnoses of BPD. I made those bad choices. The lying and stealing was a symptom and it was that symptom that needed addressing. I don't think it is acceptable for someone to say, 'I have BPD so I can't help it'. Just my take on things. Take care, Toaster xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Mainly to get attention or cover up bad things I did. I think everyone has told at least ONE lie in their life. I think it is the extent of the lies and how much they hurt people is what matters Put in a much better way than I managed. :blush02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooSensitive Posted October 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Thank you all for your honest and insightful replies. They have been helpful to me. I will write more when I have a chance. Thoughts are too scattered right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlylight1 Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 ((((too sensitive))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonkers101 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 This post really caught my attention.... I had never stolen a thing in my life and had a big issue with 'stealing' - not even the things people tend to do when they are children.... About 2 years ago (I had just had my meds upped) I finished work and popped into a department store. Before I knew it, I was putting cosmetics/ make-up in my bag without any conscious thought process behind it. Then I went into the next department store and did the same. When I got home, I must have had around £2000 worth of stuff (it was really expensive). I was delighted with myself as I had probably spent £1000's in these department stores (as compulsive spending has been one of the biggest problems with my BPD). So without realising it, I had replaced my compulsive spending with compulsive stealing. I stopped for ages but found myself doing it again a few weeks ago (I was just coming out of a crisis).... Its weird as I dont feel guilty at all about it even though I know its wrong - what worries me is the 'compulsion' element to it where I have no control. Plus if I got caught....... With regards to compulsive lying, I do sometimes find myself making up stories to get out of doing things, fictitious illnesses to get a day off work...that sort of thing. I find it hard to be honest a lot of the time if I dont want to do something so I will just make up a story. I do feel guilty about that.....in a way it would be easier if I could just be honest! Anyway - interesting topic ) I have BPD and have elements of what you are talking about but cant speak for everyone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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