Ubix Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I would like to make an observation. I feel that the femanine and masculine should be there to complement oneanothers strenghts and weaknesses. We lower the opposite because of our own inferiorities. I think the media and books etc are a world of fantasy in which we endulge of escape. An example of equality is this very conversation, equality of minds, maybe different opinions or ideas but never the less an open discussion where all are valued. Which for the majority of society when the bravardo is gone I think is felt. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelk01 Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think generaly woman are treated with unequality i.e pay is lower than thier male counterpart, some unfortunatly are seem as objects by the neanderthals out there and I do think that the stigma of being weak is still there even in 2012??????? On the other hand when it come to (and I see this as general life as it is common) children, women have all rights, in practice/ reality and thier counterpart none. Yeah i agree ubix they are still treated as bilogically inferior to males as in Foucault stated this still happens as largely male jobs like engineering and other physically demanding roles like plastering and practical work is seen outside the realms of women as they are still stereotyped by the media and by workplace practices as inferior and weak. It is a cultural stigma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubix Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yeah, I wouldn't like a smack in the face off fatima whitbread lol :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelk01 Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 If a woman had a load of nose and ear hair, she'd also be expected to get rid of it. Sure, men have it bad in a lot of ways as well - but when you look at pretty much any industry, it's all run by men. If you look at music, there are loads of unattractive male singers who are really successful and respected, but it's hard to think of many female artists who aren't attractive. And more often than not, women in music (especially pop music) have their clothes off most of the time. Nothing wrong with it, but it is EVERYONE. Why does Justin Bieber not have to dance about topless to be successful? Beyond that, it really irritates me that women are rarely respected in music in the same way. Men are always being called a "genius", "legend" etc, but it's rare to find a woman being called the same thing. Yeah that is so true esme people are always expecting women to look a certain way and often their male ounterparts are just accepted so this is definitely sexual discrimination as men can be in control of many media companies that allow them to be very subjective as to what appeals to the male audience so it is too one way traffic. There needs to be greater access for women in the media industry to balace things out as well as wht Joshua says to try to maybe enable men to have greater understanding within the domestic spheres of the media trying to encourage this. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyP Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 i think there probably is 'inequality', but i just see it as a difference between sexes. i personally would hate it if men and women were treated EXACTLY the same. i like having a different role to men. if men wore make up and nice dresses it would annoy me because i like being able to look nice and i like men to look like 'men'. i mean im no airhead, i think in terms of work there should be equality. my bf does more housework than i do he is very opposed to sexism, im lucky in that respect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 ok but for men to do teaching esp primary/nursery - or nursing (as already mentioned) they are often seen as weak/gay/lacking masculinity in some way. stigma works both ways personally feel that people often struggle with life more when their roles are NOT clearly defined this is not to say they should be refused access to the profession/role of their choice - feminism did many great things but in 'freeing' women from the home out into the work place - in 'liberating' them - it also stole away their role suddenly it became the 'thing to do' for women to get a job and those of us who chose to stay at home and care for our children became the weak lazy ones who weren't making an effort to 'get out and do something' (and MUCH of that stigma came from women themselves) well its not easy - for anyone there is nothing weak, easy, or inferior about staying at home and caring for our children it is more an issue of VALUING each persons contribution - THAT is what should be worked on aarrrrrrrrghhhh so difficult to explain sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love&Me Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Jasmine I agree with you what I said was ill thought out. Joshua you make some valid points about fathers. Many couples split and the woman takes her children without consideration for the father. If the father did that then it could be abduction I've read about mothers saying they are not the father just so the police will retrieve the children. As I have a more old fashioned marriage my children have rarely been read a book by their dad it has been my job and responsibility to do reading, songs, painting, swimming, play centres, mother and baby (only once do I recall a father being there). My husband takes the children to the park more often than me, plays outside, baths the children in a boisterous way so when handed to me to settle might take some time! Some people like me are happy to have our roles defined. I would never argue with my husband in front of the children or disagree in company as it would be disrespectful. I do not fear my husband I choose to act this way. My husband would correct me in public and I accept that. If anything needs fixing or dealing with in the house my husband will either do it himself or call someone it is his duty to deal with these things. I am probably moving away from the original point. I think some of the traditional roles are a good thing for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundries Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I agree with you walker. I think it is really sad that women with children going to work instead of being a choice to allow equality has become a duty. I can't think of anything more ridiculous than paying someone else to look after your children while you go and 'work' to earn the money to pay them to look after them. I think children are society's responsibility and it is the duty of the father or the state to pay for them in their early years if the mother has not already saved enough money. I don't think equality should mean sameness. I also think men are just as discriminated against in many ways re the shaving issue - how many women have to shave their entire face everyday to look kempt? I also think that quite often the 'discrimination' comes from women. If you are a woman who isn't very good with emotions, isn't touchy feely or self effacing boy do other women hate it wheras they wouldn't mind at all if a man showed the same behaviour or at least they would put it down to him being a man wheras if a woman is like that she must be 'on the autistic spectrum'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love&Me Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I have more to add after some thinking time. I had some neighbours two doors down from my home. They were married with two boys, when they moved in the youngest child was nine months old and the other son was starting school. Every day we could hear the woman shouting at her children and her husband she would go in to her garden to smoke cigarettes and slam her back door. One time my husband was going to go and speak to them as we had been in our garden and we heard the woman call her husband the worst swear word. I begged my husband not to go as I didn't want to be on bad terms with our neighbours she seemed like she wouldn't have taken well to a complaint. When the youngest son was about two the husband left and soon after the mother and sons went as the house was sold. I've taken a long time to get to my point that if the man had been using the language the woman was using I would have thought she was being abused. It was much later that I realised she was abusing her husband and children mentally with her screaming and cussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundries Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 That is a really interesting story L&M. I have often thought on TV how it is often portrayed as qutie normal for a woman who is piqued to slap her husband round hte face or hit him with her fists on his chest and yet we do not think of it is as abuse. very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love&Me Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 This woman although small was quite formidable. Sometimes she would shout and I would feel panic and her language was the worst. I now do think she was psychologically or emotionally abusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 i hate it when <insert either gender> wants to be treated equal to the other and then play their gender card in certain circumstances... classic example is when a woman expects to be treated the same as a man, but still expects the man to open a door for them and let them pass first simply because they are a woman... there are many many others for both genders but i cba typing any more, you should get the gist from this one example... imo, if you want equality you accept it in ALL terms, NOT only when it suits you... second thing that right irks me and i was annoyed when they allowed it is that women singles champ at wimbledon gets same prize money as men. imo when women were fighting for this, they should have been given it ONLY on the proviso that they play over the same sets as the men. men currently play over 5, women 3... that in my book is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I actually can't stand feminism - I see it as a 'policitcally' correct way to say 'I'm sexist'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bena.baby Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Well, I'm a feminist, and I don't think I'm sexist. Feminism is about equality for women and men. It is not about saying men are somehow worse than women or that women should have more rights. If you go onto any feminist website, you'll find plenty of really normal women (and men) who just don't like a lot of things in society and the way that it affects both sexes. And now I'm signing off this thread because I really don't to get into an argument with people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 classic example is when a woman expects to be treated the same as a man, but still expects the man to open a door for them and let them pass first simply because they are a woman... Yes! Thats common but then I quite like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubix Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 People need people and people are all misrepresented, have "ism's" against them, annoy and comfort, give and take. It's a matter of culture, upbringing and for us in the western world, forced upbringing under a self gratifying society. That alienates women and men, black or white, gay or straight, rich or poor. It's all relative to your own perception and how you deal with it. It's there fact :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundries Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think some self proclaimed feminists use it in that way Toaster but 'feminism' itself is just about equality in a non aggressive way. I have same difficulty though. My mum is an agressive 'feminist' which has left me feling like 'i can't stand feminists' but then when I actually get into the nitty gritty of 'well should women be allowed this that or the other (e.g. equal pay, access to jobs) I cannot deny I am a feminist through and through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelk01 Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Well, I'm a feminist, and I don't think I'm sexist. Feminism is about equality for women and men. It is not about saying men are somehow worse than women or that women should have more rights. If you go onto any feminist website, you'll find plenty of really normal women (and men) who just don't like a lot of things in society and the way that it affects both sexes. Yeah i agree Esme as a feminist can see both viewpoints in the sense everythings equal with male and female acquiring 50:50% so everything is fair. This is just how i see it as in every culture things should be fair so everyone gets the same access of opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaster Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 If there was a bloke out there saying 'I'm a masculinist (if there is such a word)' then all feminists would go up in arms right? I guess my views are narrow minded at the moment - I see men being berated and blamed for society, men assumed as abusers, men have less right than mothers to see their children, men have to be 'men'... As others have said, there is equality and inequality on BOTH sides. If a man here started a topic saying 'do men get treated equal' there would be arguments ... esme I'm not arguing or wanting to argue with you, I see you as a friend. I have my view, you have yours and I respect that you have your own beliefs x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelk01 Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 If there was a bloke out there saying 'I'm a masculinist (if there is such a word)' then all feminists would go up in arms right? I guess my views are narrow minded at the moment - I see men being berated and blamed for society, men assumed as abusers, men have less right than mothers to see their children, men have to be 'men'... As others have said, there is equality and inequality on BOTH sides. If a man here started a topic saying 'do men get treated equal' there would be arguments ... esme I'm not arguing or wanting to argue with you, I see you as a friend. I h ave my view, you have yours and I respect that you have your own beliefs x yeah thats true toaster. . xxx. both women and men should definitely be equal unfortunately there is still too much inequality for women in other less developed countries as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract312 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I agree with the sexual way women are portaid by the media, it's wrong. I have daughters and it worries me. How it is socialy acceptable and almost expected. I think there are very famous women though who will stand the test of time. In religion for one is Mary. There Lady Diana, Maggie Thatcher, The head of the realm and to some the most respected woman on the planet The Queen. Florence NIghtingaile, who basicaly invented the NHS before Brennan. The list can go on and on. Women are very misrepresented. Yet I do find now that the young generation seem to behave in a way that was complained about by women of men and their behaviour and now the roles have turned You inspired me to give you an example of equality of the sexes....Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan...they are equally vile, deceitful, dishonest, ruthless, dogmatic ....now when it comes to the amount of damage they did to their countries, well, I think that Maggie was a bit more efficient in that respect....nonetheless, they should be treated equally...with disgust. And about the Queen...I would love to comment on that, but the thread isn't really about wasting taxpayers' money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love&Me Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 If there was a bloke out there saying 'I'm a masculinist (if there is such a word)' then all feminists would go up in arms right? I guess my views are narrow minded at the moment - I see men being berated and blamed for society, men assumed as abusers, men have less right than mothers to see their children, men have to be 'men'... As others have said, there is equality and inequality on BOTH sides. If a man here started a topic saying 'do men get treated equal' there would be arguments ... esme I'm not arguing or wanting to argue with you, I see you as a friend. I have my view, you have yours and I respect that you have your own beliefs x You have made me smile with your views and straightforward examples. " masculinist". It would be interesting to read peoples opinions. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonelyheartemma Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I hate it when people open doors for me. I'd really rather do it myself. I dont mind if people stop the door from slamming in my face (i do the same for the person behind me), i dont mind if someone holds the door when i have my hands full, i do the same. I always hold the door for people with push chairs. But sometimes when men hold the door for me it really seems like they think they are doing me a huge favour and they arent. If a woman did this for me it would be just as bad. holding the door for someone is only a favour when people would find it difficult or impossible to open it themselves. my mum always complains that when she and my dad go to the bank they talk to him and not her (they have a joint account.) she says this is unfair as she feels she is the intelligent one, the one who deserves respect and the bigger wage earner. I agree it is wrong for them to not treat my parents as equals but i also think it is wrong for my mum to see herself as superior to my dad. She would say she doesnt but she is always shouting at him or putting him down. He never shouts at her. when i was choosing my gcses i wanted to do woodwork and metalwork which to be fair i was shit at but i was better at that than cooking, sewing or graphic design. but when i went to see the woodwork teacher he was like 'are you sure you wouldnt be happier doing cooking or sewing?' so i decided i would do cooking because I didnt want to spend 2 years being told 'you should have chosen cooking/sewing'. so instead my cooking teacher spent 2 years saying 'you should have done woodwork'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love&Me Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 "when i was choosing my gcses i wanted to do woodwork and metalwork which to be fair i was shit at" This has made me laugh but I see your point I thought we had moved through times where it is female to cook (Gordon Ramsey Jamie Oliver) and male to do woodwork. I don't watch DIY programmes are there any women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I have a friend and her boyfriend is very old fashioned, He has an attitude of " Women should shut up and listen to men speak" She does too, If it was me, I would tell him "to get lost", My aunt can't see why I won't iron my husbands clothes, I am his wife not his slave. This is the 21st century Women can be just as bad men though, I would never take any shit of a bloke :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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