Zen And Meditation

[kraaken]

So you've heard of DBT, dialectical behavioural therapy.

Right, so that was developed by Marsha Linehan in the USA.

She says she combined elements of CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) with approaches from Eastern psychology.

One of her goals of therapy is DISTRESS TOLERANCE.

Well there are a lot of distressed people on this site (including me).

So I got a book recommended by Linehan on Mindfulness.

Which turns out to be a technique of TOLERATING DISTRESS.

INGREDIENTS:

a quiet room where you won't be disturbed (hearing the odd sound is okay)

a meditation cushion + mat

a large candle

yummy essential oils (especially frankincense)

So you guessed it, mindfulness involves meditating.

I was too scared to try it for 6 months, but I wouldn't do without it now.

All you have to do is sit and focus on breathing in and out for about 15 minutes.

And then you'll find information in books/internet if you're still interested.

[verbena]

It works, it helps, it really does. And I need to get more serious about my recovery and make time EVERY DAY to meditate. Why do I avoid it and "forget" it the way I do?

[alphaOmega]

It works, it helps, it really does. And I need to get more serious about my recovery and make time EVERY DAY to meditate. Why do I avoid it and "forget" it the way I do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(Thank you, Kraaken... you reminded me of what I need to be doing. Thanks for being so inspiring.)

Verbena, If you're like me, I forget/avoid meditating because its a nice thing to do for myself and good things for my self are usually last on the *important* list. Just even something nice where I'm fully in the moment because isn't mindfulness a part of DBT therapy?

It would be nice to see a section/club/- somewhere in the recovery area, maybe? where we could ban together and make it a point to do these things each day. It would certainly help me to keep incentive and motivation. Maybe we could even share the effects?

Linda

[Janie]

i can relate totally to what Linda has wrote and linda i think your idea is a great one .....so thumbs up from me ...

i always forget the nice things for me and worry to much about other stufff etc etc ........

now i know what i need to get back to ....thanks love Janie xxxxx

[kraaken]

Dear verbena, LH, and Janie,

Thanks for posting, yes it would be good to have a forum about meditation; the more I do it the more I find it useful.

Like this evening I was feeling agitated but I did a guided meditation that I've got, and had my large candle and a combination of lemon, lavender and frankincense essential oils on my aromastone, and managed to keep going for about 20 minutes... although I've been informed that 15 minutes is good going because intense concentration is difficult (and my legs go numb - mind you I read that it's not damaging, just due to "nerve-pinch")

Anyway before I did the meditation I was going to take my night time Seroquel but I'll leave it till later like what i'm supposed to do.

If anyone is interested in Zen I could recommend a couple of books (doesn't matter what religion you are)

[alphaOmega]

Dear verbena, LH, and Janie,

Like this evening I was feeling agitated but I did a guided meditation that I've got, and had my large candle and a combination of lemon, lavender and frankincense essential oils on my aromastone, and managed to keep going for about 20 minutes... although I've been informed that 15 minutes is good going because intense concentration is difficult (and my legs go numb - mind you I read that it's not damaging, just due to "nerve-pinch")

Anyway before I did the meditation I was going to take my night time Seroquel but I'll leave it till later like what i'm supposed to do.

If anyone is interested in Zen I could recommend a couple of books (doesn't matter what religion you are)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kraaken, I'd love some book recommendations, thank you. Way to go for you with the seroquel! (BTW, whats it for?) I forgot what a guided meditation is~ but you make it sound lovely.

Have you ever been involved in spiritual herbalism? Its like aromatherapy, but it invokes things based on the properties of the oils/plants (like lavender is for healing, lemon is for energy, etc.) Used to know what all that stuff meant. Its cross cultural- Christianity used to believe in it (frankincense and myrrh). Anyway, it sounds like what you're doing right now

I used to try to meditate on what I was doing at the time, like dish washing, trying to block out everything else. Hard to do with ADHD, but it did help it. Meditating while exercising is cool, too, forgot all about that...

Anyway, thanks Kraaken for bringing up this topic and offering book ideas, you're ideas are helpful.

Linda

[calyps]

Kraaken,

it seems every book I read about how to be mindful, how to cope with this distress, how to regulate emotions- gives meditation as the answer. I'm lucky enough to have a friend who is a buddhist who can explain it all to me in a way I understand. I find it hard to 'digest' Marsha when she goes off on one about 'the leaves falling onto the blanket...' I find the easiest way to calm myself is to do some yogic breathing. I made a comfy corner in my bedroom where i just sit. My biggest problem is doing it regularly- any tips on this?! My buddhist friend had a sign on the back of her bedroom door that said 'MEDITATE: you know it's worth it'...maybe i should get my pens out and make some sort of visual reminder to practice mindfulness everyday. This is a good thread mate, I apologise if I have rambled incoherently, I not long woken up!

Anwen

[kraaken]

test

[kraaken]

Dear Linda

I get the Seroquel for agitation and paranoia, it calms me down.

Book recommendations - here's four you might be interested in (I've got others that are quite obscure ie hard to follow)

1. 'An Introduction to Zen Buddhism' D.T. Suzuki (1964) Grove Press, New York (2004 edition) ISBN: 0-8021-3055-0

2. 'The Zen Teaching of Huang Po: on the Transmission of mind' translated by John Blofeld (1958) Grove Press, New York. ISBN: 0-8021-5092-6

3. 'Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: informal talks on Zen meditation and practice' Shunryu Suzuki (1970) Weatherhill (2005 edition). ISBN: 0-8348-0079-9

4. 'Zen Flesh Zen Bones: A Collection of Zen and Pre-Zen Writings' compiled by Paul Reps (1957). Penguin Books (2000 edition). ISBN: 0-14-028832-5

My favourite is the Huang Po one but it might be better to get the D.T. Suzuki one.

I've not heard of spiritual herbalism but it sounds interesting. I've just ordered some Bay Laurel and Myrrh essential oils which are supposed to have spiritual effects...we'll see how it goes.

Guided meditation is when you listen to someone speaking either live-and-direct or on a recording; stops your thoughts heading in the wrong direction. I operate my personal Thought Police in my head so that if a negative thought comes up I just nod at it and figure out what the opposite positive thought is to focus on.

I read in one Zen book that washing the dishes mindfully is Zen practice, so there you go, you know something what it's about already!

Anwen...

It took me 6 months to work up the courage to start meditating as I was afraid I'd go mental. Fear put me off it because I thought it would be too difficult to control my thoughts. However I feel now that it's OK because I read in one of the books recommended by Linehan that all you have to do is pour all your concentration into focusing on the breathing, and if other thoughts come up, which they will and do, just nod at them mentally and get back to focusing on the breath. And the book said to do this practice for 6 months when you're beginning ie. no sweat about "progressing". Sitting in the correct position is important. Don't lean your back on anything and keep it upright. I can't do the lotus position (ha ha that'll be the day) so I sit cross-legged with two pillows under a meditation cushion on a meditation mat.

[alphaOmega]

Hi Kraaken {{{}}} Thank you so much for the information

I have (pardon my spelling) some Tich Nhat Han book that is as thick as a filet mignon, lol. Its intimidating, so I haven't read any of it yet-

Thanks again,

Linda

[kraaken]

Hi Linda

I haven't read much Thich Nhat Hahn except 'The Miracle of Mindfulness' which is the first Zen book I read, explaining about meditating by concentrating on the breath, and I was inspired to get more books. (Ha ha it's not clothes I spend all my money on, I'm a book junky).

Anyway I got the Myrrh and Bay Laurel today and tried them with Frankincense and I really relaxed a lot in meditating and I was pleased as I was feeling agitation/restlessness coming on. I haven't been to the gym this week which doesn't help.

I've got a book on loan from an aromatherapist and it says this:

BAY Laurus nobilis

Stimulating in small doses, and acts as a sedative in larger doses, having a warm yet refreshing quality... best suited to creative people who depend on intuition and inspiration for their work... promotes confidence, insight and courage; use in a vapouriser.

MYRRH Commiphora myrrha

One of the most renowned incenses along with frankincense. Myrrh is thought to enhance spirituality... particularly valuable for people who feel stuck emotionally or spiritually and want to move forward in their lives

FRANKINCENSE Boswellia carteri

Slows down the breathing and produces feelings of calm. Tends to breing about an elevating and soothing effect on the mind. Its comforting and refreshing action is helpful for anxious and obsessional states linked to the past.

CLARY SAGE Salvia sclarea

Well known for its euphoric action. An extremely valuable oil for treating nervousness, weakness, fear, paranoia and depression. Helps reduce deep seated tension, yet remains stimulation, regenerative, and revialising. May centre and ground scattered thinking, absent-mindedness and unrealistic ideas.

I'm going to try the clary sage today

[kraaken]

The clary sage was good yesterday, although I tried it at night and ended up going to bed after about 5 minutes. So I'm going to try it again today.

I was wondering if anyone has tried meditating/aromatherapy this week: Linda, calyps, anwen, verbena, janie?

[verbena]

As usual I haven't had 5 minutes alone but my husband is leaving this morning for 9 days in Canada and I'm determined to use that time to meditate twice a day. I don't have any incense I don't think, just smelly candles. I'm so glad this thread is staying current because it reminds me of what I know I should be doing...

XXX

Ann

[kraaken]

Hi verbena,

hope your meditating goes well, i look forward to hearing about it

[verbena]

And the mindfulness is something we can do all through the day, right? For me, it's concentrating on what I'm doing rather than fantasizing and doing whatever I"m doing without even realizing I'm doing it. I would daydream all day if I had my choice. It's terribly addicting, don't you think?

XXX

Ann

[alphaOmega]

And the mindfulness is something we can do all through the day, right? For me, it's concentrating on what I'm doing rather than fantasizing and doing whatever I"m doing without even realizing I'm doing it. I would daydream all day if I had my choice. It's terribly addicting, don't you think?

XXX

Ann

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd swear you read my mind, Ann. I live in "there"~ I used to be very mindful, but lost practice. (It then became a tool to beat myself up with. "You're not in the here and now blah blah") My favorite day book about mindfulness is "Simple Abundance", she says basically that its a shame to waste the beauty of the moment. It has other concepts, but thats a main topic for her.

Kraaken, (I have got to get me some clary sage!! LOL) It sounds like you're having so much fun. You know an aromatherapist? Wow! No, I hadn't done any this week, but I want to. You're such an inspiration. You're basically doing spiritual herbalism now... Some folks might think its hokey, but many religions believe that plants have healing energies and qualities even without injesting them~ like eucalyptus. Its like magic + aromatherapy A bit more substantial than just smells, that you become infused with its energies. (OK, sounding like some airport crackpot, ha ha)

Orange oil (warming, strong energy) will perk you right up- so will cloves (a protectant). Orange oil + ylang-ylang (sensuality) + 1 drop of lavender (healing, relaxation) will make a glorious upbeat mindful mood. Gosh, It used to be one of my obsessions, I miss this stuff. Can get expensive, tho. Its a shame I lost all my notes on this, wish I'd kept them.

Linda

[kraaken]

Hi vebena,

Yes the point of Zen is to awake to what is Reality in the here and now (as far as I understand it so far); and it is not a religion exactly, more of a philosophy, well that is what my mum says and she's a retired church minister.

Last night I was trying really hard to focus on my breathing during meditation and I felt a bit different afterwards - although when I got up this morning it was a case of "Oh no, not another day, I feel crap etc etc" but that's not unusual before I've had my coffee and cigarettes, ha ha

[Wisdom]

I practice Tibetan Buddhism. If anyone is interested in guided meditation let me know. I'll lead ya thru the beginnings of learning to meditate. I'm also very about DBT/Marsha LInehan.

Om mani pedme hung

Wisdom

[Life is sweet]

I do that sometimes sort of. I just lay on my floor listening to this ocean wave music I have. I'm trying to read Emotional Alchemy right now by Tara Bennet-Goleman(sp?) but it's really hard to get into it. I'm doing okaty at it tho. Yeah, mindfulness is definitely something to think about. It helps, that's for sure. You just have to be concentrated enough to sit down and do it and accept all that comes into your head...

[kazzapants]

This topic is wicked thanks so much you guys!!

and linda I've read a book by Thich thingy hanh called "Peace is Every Step".....it is only about 100 pages, nice easy to read with tired eyes font, and is basically an introduction to mindfulness. It's the onyl thing I#ve read on the subject specifically, have dabbled in the odd buddhist or eastern philosophy type thing though. Anyhoo...am not terribly well read on the subject is my first point, second is the book is really really really stoned so can't think of a word other than great. It is really accessible without the patronising feel of something aimed at stupid people- you know the thing I mean. and i'm sure its the one with the washing up mindfully bit in. anyway its top and if you like i'll post it to ya(via head office if you like), as long as I get it back sometime - if you're anything like me I will get it back, but in about 4 years time.

ALthough I always like to buy books. Its the one thing I can never stop buying. Bought two today actually!! one's a pop up book for d's neice - so cool and even has a pop up anteater??!! how random!!

stoned again sorry dudes.

Kazza

[verbena]

I thought I'd feel self-conscious saying to my husband "K, I'm gonna go meditate now" but that's exactly what I do and he's fine, doesn't tease me or think it's silly at all. I've been able to remember and find time about 3 out of 4 days to do it and I'm enjoying it more and more. That last time I saw the good t he added 10 minutes of relaxation breathing to do before the meditation which seems to give me a chance to get rid of all the crap I am thinking about and makes the meditation easier to focus on. I have some essential lavender oil and an infuser and will use them in my room tonight. The only thing is when he is home I do it in our room propped up on pillows which probably isn't the best. I can't imagine not having my back on something, because I feel like I'll fall or have to concentrate on keeping my pumpkin head from falling off my shoulders! I truly think that it is helping me to keep the troubling thoughts at bay.

XXX

Ann

[kraaken]

test

[kraaken]

verbena, good to hear the meditation's helping. Have you tried counting in your mind the exhalations from "one" to "ten" and then go back to "one". That allows us to "take hold of our mind". The other thing is that the erect posture is very important; I read that when you slouch the thoughts are all over the place, and when you put your effort into keeping your back straight your thoughts are easier to control.... well by control it's a case of "now I'm thinking 'X'", and letting it pass, and then "now I'm thinking 'Y'" and letting it pass and so on. If you get a pain in your legs or back from not being used to sitting right, it gets better over time (I'm using a gymnastic ball to strengthen my back muscles); in the meantime it is okay to focus on the pain and try to describe it precisely. Ten minutes of intense sitting daily is good going for a number of months apparently. I found another book called 'The Three Pillars of Zen' edited by Kapleau, that's where I've been getting these tips. Also you can buy meditation cushions and mats online in the UK, they're reasonably priced. I've read in various books not to lean your back on anything. It's okay to sit in a chair as long as your back is straight, well it's a bit curved as you're supposed to push your rear-end out behind you a bit and your centre of gravity is supposed to be in around your navel. Oh and the way to put the hands is palms facing up with left hand held on top of right hand with the thumbs gently touching each other.

Anyway I thought I'd just say, I saw my psychiatrist today and she said I seem a lot better. I told her about the Zen and how it seems to be helping me. No increases in my medication. So I'm pretty pleased.

Wisdom, I'm not sure what's involved with the Tibetan Buddhism, except that I like the Dalai Lama. However I'm finding the Zen good