natfredricks Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 'In fact the "helper" only helps himself by helping others. In doing so, he stops the expression of feelings which are painful for him to feel. In doing so, he also convinces himself and others that he is capable of helping others and does not need help himself. Almost every "helper" has strong feelings of helplessness that diminish when he helps someone else; and this is true of a great many people in the "helping" professions, whether they be therapist, teachers, psychologists, and especially social-workers'. ( stolen from the Gestalt approach) Please, do you agree or disagree?, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 100% agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Do you agree hunni? I see it in myself, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Not in me, in yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natfredricks Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I agree a lot.I suffer from depression and feel non-stop 'helpless'; I realise that I am trying to help people here to feel more worthy myself. Sometimes people don't want to be helped or can't be helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 With you on that hunni. It is interesting though I do work at a day centre and it is a way of not thinking about my own problems but perhaps all jobs do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tan19 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I agree too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natfredricks Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Thank you, Maddy and Tan. On the other hand, should I swear not to help anybody ever? To help or not to help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Hunni I thought that too. We need to help some people and we need help some times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siamblue Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 OMG,that is scary,so true,many people say to me,help yourself before you help others and love yourself also before you love another. Maybe i just want to win friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlylight1 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 even if it is helping you that doesn't take away you are still helping others. so i think its still part of peoples 'better nature' to help others imo. its what makes the world go round of course sometimes there can be different, more manipulative reasons why people help others but thats a different matter not really to do with what you mention in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natfredricks Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Thank you, Siam and Vivien and Maddy and Tan, you are helping me to deal with my doubts. Another thought which I don't quite get,what it means: 'Every client will have a great deal of unused potential. Most, in fact, are much more capable, more intelligent, stronger and more able than either they or the therapist believes.' (pinched from Gestalt therapy) I don't feel like it is true for me personally,what about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle59 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Definitely agree.xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlylight1 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Thank you, Siam and Vivien and Maddy and Tan, you are helping me to deal with my doubts. Another thought which I don't quite get,what it means: 'Every client will have a great deal of unused potential. Most, in fact, are much more capable, more intelligent, stronger and more able than either they or the therapist believes.' (pinched from Gestalt therapy) I don't feel like it is true for me personally,what about you? i can ALWAYS see it in others especially people who have mh problems who usually don't have great self esteem. i sometimes struggle to see it in myself. i think a large part of the problem is people don't know how to get in touch and connect with all that unused potential (either through lack of confidence or many other reasons). this saddens me but i like to believe if you seek you will find a way. also sometimes i think it could even be that subconsciously not knowing how to connect with your potential could be the cause of much mh, depression, etc. i like all your thought provoking Gestalt quotes, very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natfredricks Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Thank you Vivien. I find Gestalt doesn't quite work for me . I am closer to you point of view. I ,for example, feel like I don't have any more hidden potential and unused powers inside me because I probably used it all out. I personally need a lot of help from other people and I am very grateful when I receive this help(not money though). I had very low self esteem all my life, till I became 44 years old and then it suddenly went high for no reason?????(after I used all my hidden potential). I also wonder if there is something subconscious there,as you suggested. Because consciously I can't cope any more (without help). Sorry for all that confusion. Hugs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlylight1 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 thats great that you found your self esteem suddenly went up-it gives me hope it can happen i admire you for being able to accept help (although i can see why financial help may be a problem). i find it very difficult to accept help from others even tho i may need it. i'm sure in a funny way it is connected to low self esteem(i don't feel worthy of it and so end up feeling very uncomfortable. this can make life quite lonely at times and i hope its something i can approve at. also i think you probably do have more potential, its just that its very well hidden! xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 100% agree again and Nat I think you have potential. It takes some one with careful thought and intelligence to start this debate hunni! We (borderline) waste much energy on negative feelings and thoughts invading us. Take that a way sure would have found a way to live on Mars by now! And make candy with out the calories! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natfredricks Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Dear Vivien. It was never my intention to ask money from this forum members. I suppose my 'brilliant' English failed me. I appreciate emotional and intellectual (ideas and so on) help very much. Yes, when I was around 44 and I became old, fat, ugly and physically disabled, I suddenly felt myself to be the most clever, beautiful and successful woman in the world??????? And when I was slim, young and fit, I thought I was rubbish. My judgement tells me that my self esteem doesn't have any relation to reality. It is like something clicked in my brain... I also have a funny feeling that my brain is developing. I started to understand things I couldn't grasp before (for example even physics-I was a complete idiot in physics before, just absolute zero) So I suppose, yes, there is a lot of hope in that for other people. And yes, I survived the last 20 years exclusively on emotional and even financial help from others. There are truly amazing people on this planet.Me and my kids, we only live now because of them. I agree it takes a lot of humility to accept help. I also agree that if I have any more potential it is very well hidden, because I can't feel it is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natfredricks Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Dear Maddisson. Thank you very much for your compliment. Though it doesn't take much intelligence to pinch something from the Gestalts. Yes ,I agree that life here may be harder that on Mars. I am a melancholic and very prone to depression.I am not an optimistic, bubbly person. CBT helps me a bit; there are many sources which point out that CBT was tailored for depressed people. However I don't find the Gestalts helpful.They even annoy me a bit. But what I figured out, that because it doesn't help me, it is probably suitable for people with a different, more fiery temperament. Don't know that I am right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlylight1 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 i'm sorry for the confusion i don't think i expressed myself well in my last post. i know you never asked for money from forum members i didn't think that at all. when you spoke about getting help i thought you were referring exclusively to being helped in real life and not the forum. i must say i do find it difficult still to ask for help and support from the forum but it is much easier than in real life. you are right too self esteem doesn't have any connection to what we perceive as reality- good self esteem seems very much a state of mind. i am glad you were able to realise this also your english is very good i didn't realise it wasn't your first language! xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenny1471 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 'In fact the "helper" only helps himself by helping others. In doing so, he stops the exp<b></b>ression of feelings which are painful for him to feel. In doing so, he also convinces himself and others that he is capable of helping others and does not need help himself. Almost every "helper" has strong feelings of helplessness that diminish when he helps someone else; and this is true of a great many people in the "helping" professions, whether they be therapist, teachers, psychologists, and especially social-workers'. ( stolen from the Gestalt approach) Please, do you agree or disagree?, I actually agree with this.. Even just with this forum alone I know that when I feel awful it can really help to come here and support others. I'm not saying everyone should do that or even that everyone would have the capacity to do that but with me the worse I feel often the more supportive of others that I become. So yes I do agree. It not only is a way to help take my mind off myself, so it distracts.. But sometimes I find myself saying things to other people that really I should be saying to myself too. I wonder whether on so me level the words I write to others are taken in by me too.. I hope so. But then, is this all such a bad thing? I mean there are so many ways to cope through life's difficulties. I can think of many more ways that I could decide to deal with my pain but instead it is turned in to something (hopefully) useful for others. So I don't think there's a need for us to beat ourselves up about helping others as a way of helping ourselves. If no one helped anyone then the world would be.. Well, I dunno, where would the world be? So yeah I do agree but I don't think it's the worse thing in the world for people to do. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natfredricks Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Thank you,Viv! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natfredricks Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Jenny,I agree very much with you. That's how I feel. But then the Gestalts go on: 'When the therapist is being "helpful" with reassurance, jokes or comfort, it prevents the client from fully experiencing his grief, anger, guilt, etc. Only through experiencing it fully can he accept it, assimilate it into his total life experience, and grow into a more complete and integrated human being.' This one I don't get at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenny1471 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 So is Gestalt therapy basically saying.... Don't go to therapy because by seeing a therapist who is only being helpful because they want to help themselves, you won't be able to move forward because the best thing for you is not be helped but to experience the pain fully? I don't get it either...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Any sucker can copy and paste hunni but you've done more than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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