Bordering On The Ridiculous.

[abee.abee1991]

Saharah can you explain by what you mean by validation is the key to improving BPD'ers?

Sorry sounds stupid my head will not let me understand what is meant by what you have wrote :/

LBB

[bena.baby]

I am gradually helping myself get better. Being gentle with myself. Allowing myself to make mistakes. Pushing, but not pushing too hard.

There is no way that any relationship, any amount of love or care, will fill up this huge hole in me. There is no person on earth who could sacrifice enough of their life for it to be enough. Besides that, people die, people leave. So I need to rely on myself.

That is hard for me to accept, and lonely. But really slowly, I am getting better.

[BeaBee]

Esme, your words resonate with me, the world keeps turning if you are on your knees or not. I remember being in hospital and my dad visiting and saying something about his work. I was suddenly hit with the reality that life had gone on.

B.

[bena.baby]

It's true BeaBee. It is hard to imagine life going on sometimes.

[ArtMatters]

I dont' want to stir the pot or anything....but I'm not sure that validation is enough. It is very important...but it wont really get you through a time of great distress....there needs to be something in place for those times, whether dbt skills, other therapy skills, a support system....something more I think

[Kitsune]

if DBT is a must what about those of us who can't get DBT? Does that mean we will always be doomed to live and die this way? Or will we have to try and teach ourselves DBT (which seems near impossible)

Well I suppose there could be other methods, I just find dbt the most helpful..........but if you don't have access I've been posting some of my notes and would be happy to walk you through a few things if you need a bit more guidance

I dont' want to stir the pot or anything....but I'm not sure that validation is enough. It is very important...but it wont really get you through a time of great distress....there needs to be something in place for those times, whether dbt skills, other therapy skills, a support system....something more I think

I'd agree with what Art says- also thanks Art for posting DBT stuff! I'm going to try and teach myself some of the skills, I suppose if it doesn't work I can always try and find a DBT therapist somewhere if that's possible seeing as I can't get access through NHS.

I think it's a mixture of what everyone hs suggested- just as BPD is a complex multilayered issue so must the adaptation and skill set be. DBT is a good example as it has so many varied modules, it's good to have a toolbox of things to use in crisis as well as day to day. Also it's trial and error a lot of the time (oh no! mistakes! We can't make mistakes surely! or change our minds!?) and what works for one person won't necessarily work for another.

[ArtMatters]

I'll post the interpersonal skills next! that's the next one I should do... I just need a lil time as I have some of my own shit to deal with atm lol

Oh I know.. in the meantime.. my dbt let me teach one class.. and I still have the questions I made up for the effectiveness.. if I can find will post meow

[RoRo]

beabee, only read top posts but i feel you. totally agree. i wouldn't know where to start with me-Im so able to come across lucid, switched on, sensible and rational. then ill get into a wild mood where i feel i could smash up my whole house without flinching. where do we go with it? xxx

[BeaBee]

RoRo due to my fluctuating mood my despair fluctuates in accordance! I personally feel DBT aside there is an almost criminal lack of support. That is evident in the high suicide rate.

We need to learn how to live in the moment, enjoy life without fear and pressure, who teaches us this?

B.

[RoRo]

i am sick of being advised to "look online" at this charity or online course or another by gp it makes me rage-its basically saying "Yeh we've all got problem love, just sort it out yourself, not much i can do for you" it makes me feel like Michael Douglas in falling down (anyone know what Im on about?).

i, and everyone else on here, probably capable of so much-i have lived on my own since 18 and hardly had any help from anyone. i qualified from college and got my 1st class degree! why do i feel so bloody useless and not good at anything? i think lack of support. general MH is hard enough to get help for but PD symptoms are another level! i have to go to docs soon and i KNOW the reaction ill get when i want them to entertain PD as possible diagnosis. i have seen professionals physically roll their eyes at PD as its every MH professionals nightmare. not as much as living with the symptoms is hey!!!

x

[BeaBee]

I know the film "Falling Down". very well! And yes now you've reminded me it does feel like that at times.

It is all awfully negative, attention seekers, clingy, emotional shells, manipulative. It is bad enough feeling ill and then being called some of the worst things just because you are in mental torment.

I wish I had the answers, I can only validate that people with BPD are often invalidated.

B.

[RoRo]

hmmm i agree. i spent a lot of time really disliking myself after lots of friends turned their backs on me and boyfriends turned out to be awful idiots (being very polite). i took a long look at myself and hated what i found. i was unable to conduct with people in way others did. i came across cold and very independent. when inside i was anything but and couldn't understand why people treated me so bad. but the whole time i have been battling with internal split in my personality so dealing with that AND the shit other people put me through. to be honest its left me empty, emotionally. i used to feel i was bursting with love and care but no one to share it with. now i have a wonderful boyfriend i am unable to connect in way i feel i should. Im very disconnected from others but at same time care so much about all the bad stuff in the world and am quite sensitive to criticism etc. WTF is that all about???:-

I've never talked about it enough to meet others who may be same as me until now. its good to be able to share x

[BeaBee]

Sharing is probably one of the most important things. Connecting with people, telling your story, it is a super positive step and I think you will feel the dividends.

I think at some point in all our lives, someone or something broke us. Some people appear to have split, others, myself included seem to grow in contradictory ways. As you describe, appear cold, very emotional. Two traits which people easily assume fall at either end of a spectrum. When you feel such diverse emotions it creates internal chaos, for me it is has.

B.

[Elke]

I need someone to save me.... someone to genuinely care... that is the only way I will ever be saved. No amount of fake caring and cold medical support will change things. It won't fix a shitty life.

BPDs need someone who genuinely cares.. who has endless patience, empathy, kindless, compassion, and love. Does that even exist in human form???

I doubt it. I dont want to tell my age, I am not young anymore, but even today, I silently wished for someone to "save" me. I have all my life. No one has ever saved me as yet. I like the song by Tori Amos "Crucified". She sings "Looking for a saviour beneath these dirty sheets..."

I can also relate to the ambivalence, which now that my aged mom is in need of constant care-taking, I cannot and do not want to take the responsibility for, because late in life she became very loving towards me, but now that she is in need, I only have the life-long memories of her abuse towards me and I am torn.

What hospitals concerns I often go back to the bio of Marsha Linehan. She was in hospital, in solitary confinement. From her bio it is clear that she never once put any hope in getting help from a hospital. She never even considered it. Linehan found her way to recovery. But she was a very religious person, something not everyone is. Her enlightenment and help came from an extroardinary experience she had while praying in church.

She then decided she wanted to help. To help all the sufferers of BPD who were suicidal, and committed herself to helping those that were going through the same as she was.

I have no answer. I dont believe in God and what she experienced in that church I can wish all I want to would happen to me, it wont. It only happened to her. This "Miracle".

We all need a miracle.

Elke

[bena.baby]

There's only one person that can save you and that's yourself. It would be a really one-sided relationship if one person is basically a saviour for another. And I think, in the end, the saved person ends up resenting the saviour.

There's no easy way out of this BPD shit.

[Elke]

Linehan writes that a good, close friend can also be a source of healing. I know, beause I had one - for a while, until she became ill.

Esme, no man is an island among himself. Of course I know a few people who do fine on their own and watch T.V. saying this way I can watch the film "I" chose and like and can avoid what I dislike.

But as Linehan writes in her bio. One true friend in life can be a source of healing. Unfortunately not all of us are that lucky.

I have been offered DBT. I turned it down once. Then when I chose to go for it, the clinicians (OK, I was in a withdrawal clinic) said "No". I was dumb. All I had to do after being discharged, was to go apply for DBT thereafter.

Just on the side: A friend of mine who has BPD applied for DBT. He was turned down. Reason: He was a high-level Borderliner and they only accepted the ones who are "out on the street" so to say. Try to make sense of it....

Elke

P.S. Yes, it would be one-sided. I dont believe the saved person ends up resenting the savior. More the other way around. The saviour ends up resenting the saved, if it is only one-sided and not a give and take relationship.

[ArtMatters]

I'm hearing a lot of discouraged talk and I know you guys are feeling hurt by your system but I want to offer you hope. In Canada we have by no means a perfect system, but we do have some better resources for those with bpd. Most of the borderliners I know in real life are hopeful. There are some that are very ill and still get failed by the system, but there are lots that manage thier illness with some hard work. I know people with bpd in recovery and one just had a baby.

I don't want to sound super optimistic cuz I know how lame that is when I'm the one feeling cynical.....but... I do keep some hope in my back pocket....because I have gotten a lot better from when I was diagnosed.. and I truly believe you all can get to the point of recovery where you start to see some good things

I'm having a setback now with the onset of my physical illness the past few years.....and it has really devistated me physically, emotionally,mentally......it is a pretty big set back in my progress...yet maybe it's the artist in me...but I can't help but continue to see beauty in this world. I had to finally a few months ago make the decision to find more reasons to keep going than obligation...cuz for a long time I was living just because I knew if I ended things I would hurt a lot of people

I realized awhile ago that's not enough.....I needed to believe in something again..my art...my voice as an anti-oppressive female....the possibility of loving and being loved.......etc...something more

I had try to stop feeing sorry for myself for all the things I can no longer do...and figure out what I still can.....(which I'm still struggling with this)

you have to keep in mind part of our depression comes from our culture. In many cultures some of our traits would be considered a gift. As hard as it is having bpd and finding anything benefitial to it...there are some things that make us special. We tend to be more intuitive to the emotions of others and can pick up on them. That's part of the reason we are so sensitive... we might sense someones anger and interpret that it has something to do with us when it may not. We are taught that it is a flaw...that we are broken to be fixed...and yes our thinking is often difficult and seems broken.......but sensing the emotions of others also increases our ability to empathize.....and I don't know about you guys but I think that's something this earth definitely needs- more empaths

so I think find a purpose......start small- find a passion.....something..........find something beautiful.....find something inspiring......find a voice........but don't keep living to avoid dying.....trust me I've done it and it's depressing as fuck...

find something to get excited about! now I will leave you with a cheesy quote I read the other day that I really liked and thought was cute lol : butterflies cannot see thier wings, they can never appreciate thier own beauty because they are too close to it --- humans are like that

[ArtMatters]

p.s. and trust me when I say this-- if no one will give you a voice or a place in this world --- you take it --- you are more than entitled....if no one will validate you or encourage and support you.. if no one will appreciate you-- find at least one person who will-- you deserve it. If you feel you do not deserve it-- than you need it more than ever.

and if all else fails make some LGBT friends cuz we are usually quite an accepting bunch lol and there is glitter and zazz involved... everyone likes glitter and zazz lol

[RoRo]

it sounds so dramatic i know, but what if you really don't know what others could like about you. because you're so difficult. i wouldn't like me most of the time. this makes me more introvert. i appreciate natural beauty but human beauty i find a lot lot harder. Im not a very good friend-Im just not able to be. i hate being like that but years of trying have made small changes. its very hard though :-)

x

[Elke]

p.s. and trust me when I say this-- if no one will give you a voice or a place in this world --- you take it --- you are more than entitled....if no one will validate you or encourage and support you.. if no one will appreciate you-- find at least one person who will-- you deserve it. If you feel you do not deserve it-- than you need it more than ever.

and if all else fails make some LGBT friends cuz we are usually quite an accepting bunch lol and there is glitter and zazz involved... everyone likes glitter and zazz lol

ermm...,,,,

s´cuse me - but what is an LGBT friend?

[BeaBee]

butterflies cannot see thier wings, they can never appreciate thier own beauty because they are too close to it --- humans are like that

This made me smile, quite a wonderful piece of info, thanks.

[RoRo]

lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender-if Im correct. although Im sure they are all individuals and not a homogenous group :-

i could have read it wrong -sorry if so

[BeaBee]

RoRo what if you didn't read it wrong? Are you offended?

B.

[ArtMatters]

is that offensive? lol I just meant that queer people have usually also dealt with some oppression so there are many of us who are sensitive to people who are struggling and want to support them that's all

didn't mean straight people don't make good friends that would be bananas lol of course straight people make good friends

it was partially me being silly and flamboyant-- doesn't come across as well on the interwebs... ppl tend to take me too seriously through txt

[BeaBee]

I know what you mean, if you had said that face to face, it is a quirky observation, trouble with text!

B.