Triggered By Group

[Data]

This isn't really a mental health issue as such, but it didn't fit well into any of the other forums, so I put it here.

I started going to a social group for men a couple of months ago. It isn't supposed to be a mental health group. It meets once every two weeks, and advertises on a social networking site. The aim of the group is for men to meet and to explore what it means to be a man in the modern world, through discussions and little social games. For example, we might play a game in pairs where we talk to each other without being allowed to ask any questions. Usually, between 4 and 8 people attend each meeting. The first couple of sessions were led by a guy who was really nice, and I enjoyed the sessions and learned from them.

However, the last couple have been run by a new leader, since the first person pulled out. The session before last was ok. However, the last session made me really uncomfortable, mostly because of the way the leader behaved. I think maybe he was more confident than the previous session since he is settling in more to the role, and his true character is showing through - he is (in my opinion) arrogant, controlling and preachy.

I was eating cornish pasties whilst waiting to enter the group (the room was locked), and I got a lecture from him about nutrition. When I explained to him that i don't normally eat cornish pasties, and usually have microwavable meals in the week, he then said that it is a fact that microwaving food is bad for you, as it destroys the vitamins in it. He said that he is a life coach and he coaches people on nutrition. I hate life coaching, I think its bollocks - and I don't agree that there is anything wrong with microwaving food.

In fact, I disagreed with several of his opinions and resented several of the things he said. I think he pays lip service to listening to others, but in fact he has very strong opinions. Recently I had to move out of my lodgings, and he suggested that I was doing something to create a negative environment where I had to move on. In fact the reason was that my landlady had a death in her family. How can I be held responsible for that???

We talked about ADHD and another group member (not the leader) suggested that ADHD isn't a genuine disorder, and that it is just naughty kids, and that the parents need to take responsibility for their kids behaviour. The leader said that the behaviour of the parents can rub off on the children. Whilst I agree with this, and ADHD may be a over-diagnosed, I nevertheless believe it is a genuine disorder. Blaming it all on the parents is something I find offensive. My son has autistic traits, which I believe are genetic - is it fair to blame me for that?? But the leader was saying "its not about diagnosis, its about taking responsibility". You can't take responsibility for everything in the world! If a kid has one leg, its not their imagination; if they have a disorder like ADHD or autism that causes behaviour problems, thats not their imagination either. To suggest otherwise is discrimination.

Another one of the leader's opinions is that an alcoholic can never take a drink again. I don't believe this. I drink on weekends only, I have controlled my drinking. Abstinence would be an unrealistic goal for me. In my opinion, if you can't take one sip of drink, that suggests that you haven't done sufficient work on the triggers and root causes of your drinking, and that you are not cured or reformed at all. I know some others would disagree, but I did not dare say anything at the meeting, in case it provoked an argument, or they said other things that triggered me.

In fact, I have not told them about my mental health problems in the group (although I have hinted at them and told them I used to be addicted to alcohol). I don't feel comfortable bringing them up now since I am worried my issues will get dismissed or I will be triggered or it will start an argument. They said it wasn't a mental health group, but in fact it is like a pseudo-mental health group, but without being honest about it. I think several members have depression, or have had depression, and rather than thinking of it in mental health terms they go to this group and listen to people who preach pseudo-science and psychobabble.

The leader talked a lot. A couple of times I tried to interrupt him and I got a glare off him. When I did have ideas, he rubbished them. talked several times about self-awareness, and he turned that around and suggested that people who say they are self aware, are in fact not.

The worst thing was the laughing exercise. One guy admitted that he hadn't laughed for months. So, the leader said that we were going to have a conversation and everyone was to keep laughing out loud, even if we found nothing funny. That really annoyed me. I said I wasn't comfortable doing it. The leader got angry with me and said "it isn't about you". Eventually, he pestered me, and I said I would "give it a go". He said "no don't give it a go, do it". Several meetings ago, we had agreed some ground rules where we said that people can opt-out of activities that they feel uncomfortable with. Nobody actually does opt out, but on this occasion I felt I wanted to.

To be honest I just felt really angry. The idea of forced laughing is to me silly, and I question whether it will help someone. But thats not the point, it makes me feel uncomfortable. And, to some extent, everything I do is about me (it is often about other people also). I didn't want to do it.

But, he bullied me into taking part. And, to be fair, I did laugh spontaneously for a bit of it. But thats not the point, the way he pressurised me into it has really triggered me.

I want to go back to the group again, because I wonder if the leaders style will change or perhaps if the make-up of the meetings changes it will get better. And I just get lonely during the week, I only see my wife and children at weekends. So I need the company. However, is it worth it if it is going to upset me? There are other social groups, but many of them are doing things I am not interested in, or they have weekend meetings, which does not suit me.

Am I being reasonable here? It makes me feel guilty that perhaps I am judging him. He has a lot of issues himself and he probably means well, its just his way is to be a bit arrogant. He thinks he is right and he is helping people. In fact, he just made me angry. I hope he helped some of the others, but I doubt it. You can rate the meeting afterwards, and the last meeting was the only one that (so far) hasn't been rated by anyone. I suspect that people resented being subjected to a group life-coaching session, but they don't want to be honest and rate it badly, because they know that the leader wouldn't take it well.

[BeaBee]

Data it sounds like one of those quite cringe worthy situations. Some of the things you have mentioned, talking about your diet, being spoken over, forced laughter. It sounds like you did a super job in not just walking out and going to the pub.

You won't change this person, he probably only listens to himself. If you can learn to accept that he may inflict his views, while you can not offer a discussion, if you can ignore what you don't believe and trust in yourself that you know yourself better, then keep at it.

I've found sometimes I've grown a tolerance to people that rub me the wrong way, I don't really like them or agree with them, if I stop caring how they feel about me I can be around them.

B.

[Pickle59]

(((Data))) Need and want to have a think on this. It all sounds very triggering in one way but very interesting in another. Was just wondering how the leader of the group is chosen?, especially at short notice, like a week.

Will come back, cos have some thoughts and can understand a little of how you be feeling from what you have described happened over the evening.

I know I would prickle immediately if the first thing someone said to me was how bad cornish pasties and microwave meals are!!!!

So that wasn't a great start, and I know I would be on edge about this and on my guard and also either consciously or unconsciously critical towards the person who had been like that towards me.

Got to go to bed here, but a hug for you and will come back on this.xxx

Maybe he was trying to be what he thought was informative and helpful but maybe he needs to learn more people skills!!!

[Tiggsy]

Wow.... what a complete.... Well.

trying to be polite here... to be honest I respect you for not just jacking it in!! When I come across people like that i just want to walk away from them. But what really got me was when you said you wernt comfortable about taking part in that exercise.. thats was wrong of him to get you to do it. like you said, there were rules set so anything you didnt feel comfortable with you didnt have to do. And, being a human, we all have the right to refuse to do something that makes us uncomfortable.

Hmm.. Let us know if you go back and anything changes/doesnt change...

[Pickle59]

(((Data))) Wondering how this new ''leader'' was appointed? Also what the ''leader'' rules and regs are if there are any.?

I mis-read last night and thought it was just one week he had done,((sorries)), but I note you say you quite enjoyed the first week he did, and it was different the second.

As you say, and are naturally wary about, maybe with this new responsibility, and as he has gotten more confident, his true charachter might be coming out, but until next week, I would reserve judgement on this, though I think it is really important to trust ones gut!!! He might just be taking it all a bit too seriously and maybe next time, if there is a chance, it would be good to establish what the leaders role in this particular group is mean't to entail. I'm sorry you feel angry, but think it is understandable, because at the moment you are feeling invalidated and bullied. I would feel angry.

Like there are groundrules for the whole as a group which you have agreed amongst yourselves, are there groudrules for leaders too? Its so important that these are respected by all who go, and if one of the groundrules is to be able to opt out then that is what people must do and not be or feel bullied into any particular excercise.

Just thinking, maybe he will have picked up ((hopefully)) that things didn't go too well at the last sesh, so it will be interesting to see how he leads the group next time. If it is along the same lines then he is up his own...................if he moderates it, ((having considered and given some thought to what happened this week)) then maybe there is some hope for him as leader of this group, and for your enjoyment.xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Lily-Bee]

The way you describe him he sounds like my dad;he is always right,doesnt truly listen to others and surely doesnt respect other opinions then his own plus he is arrogant and a bully.My dad is a narcissist.

And thats what that guy sounds like. I could be very wrong,I am not a psychiatrist and I wasnt there.But Im telling you here my feeling. Bea is right such people dont change.

This actually reminds me of something that makes me smile. My dad has this new thing about milk,you shouldnt drink it,its bad blah blah,he can go on and on about it with no interest or respect for other opinions.

I was having milk one day when he visited and he scolded me a little.Wellll after he went home I had 2 full glasses of milk just to be rebelious,it felt good! :)

[BeaBee]

Lilly! I might go and drink a glass myself now whilst waiting for my food to cook in the microwave!

B.

[Data]

Data it sounds like one of those quite cringe worthy situations. Some of the things you have mentioned, talking about your diet, being spoken over, forced laughter. It sounds like you did a super job in not just walking out and going to the pub.

You won't change this person, he probably only listens to himself. If you can learn to accept that he may inflict his views, while you can not offer a discussion, if you can ignore what you don't believe and trust in yourself that you know yourself better, then keep at it.

I've found sometimes I've grown a tolerance to people that rub me the wrong way, I don't really like them or agree with them, if I stop caring how they feel about me I can be around them.

B.

Thanks for the support! Now you mention it, I did deal with it pretty well. I could have walked out, or lost my temper. You are right that I won't change him, I think next time I go I should be mentally prepared for the fact that he might be a bit of an arse (to put it a bit impolitely ). My aim will be to not lose my temper, but also I don't want to give in to his bullying all the time. If he pressurises me, I am going to make a stand - as long as it doesn't interfere too much with the group. I also have to respect the fact that he is as he is and I won't change him, as you say.

I don't think I'll ever stop caring about how people feel about me. In some ways I wish I did - I am too sensitive.

(((Data))) Need and want to have a think on this. It all sounds very triggering in one way but very interesting in another. Was just wondering how the leader of the group is chosen?, especially at short notice, like a week.

Will come back, cos have some thoughts and can understand a little of how you be feeling from what you have described happened over the evening.

I know I would prickle immediately if the first thing someone said to me was how bad cornish pasties and microwave meals are!!!!

So that wasn't a great start, and I know I would be on edge about this and on my guard and also either consciously or unconsciously critical towards the person who had been like that towards me.

Got to go to bed here, but a hug for you and will come back on this.xxx

Maybe he was trying to be what he thought was informative and helpful but maybe he needs to learn more people skills!!!

I missed the session where they chose the new leader, my car had broken down. I am guessing that this person put his name forward, and either people voted on it - or nobody objected.

I am going to try not to be critical towards him, either consciously or subconsciously. Its hard though, because I can't help the way I feel!

Thanks for the virtual hug.

Wow.... what a complete.... Well.

trying to be polite here... to be honest I respect you for not just jacking it in!! When I come across people like that i just want to walk away from them. But what really got me was when you said you wernt comfortable about taking part in that exercise.. thats was wrong of him to get you to do it. like you said, there were rules set so anything you didnt feel comfortable with you didnt have to do. And, being a human, we all have the right to refuse to do something that makes us uncomfortable.

Hmm.. Let us know if you go back and anything changes/doesnt change...

At one point I wanted to walk away also.

Thanks for the support about the exercise. Its good to know that some other people feel like me - that you shouldn't be pressurised into doing things you don't want to do. I think if it is at work then thats different. but in a social group you go there because you enjoy it.

(((Data))) Wondering how this new ''leader'' was appointed? Also what the ''leader'' rules and regs are if there are any.?

I mis-read last night and thought it was just one week he had done,((sorries)), but I note you say you quite enjoyed the first week he did, and it was different the second.

As you say, and are naturally wary about, maybe with this new responsibility, and as he has gotten more confident, his true charachter might be coming out, but until next week, I would reserve judgement on this, though I think it is really important to trust ones gut!!! He might just be taking it all a bit too seriously and maybe next time, if there is a chance, it would be good to establish what the leaders role in this particular group is mean't to entail. I'm sorry you feel angry, but think it is understandable, because at the moment you are feeling invalidated and bullied. I would feel angry.

Like there are groundrules for the whole as a group which you have agreed amongst yourselves, are there groudrules for leaders too? Its so important that these are respected by all who go, and if one of the groundrules is to be able to opt out then that is what people must do and not be or feel bullied into any particular excercise.

Just thinking, maybe he will have picked up ((hopefully)) that things didn't go too well at the last sesh, so it will be interesting to see how he leads the group next time. If it is along the same lines then he is up his own...................if he moderates it, ((having considered and given some thought to what happened this week)) then maybe there is some hope for him as leader of this group, and for your enjoyment.xxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have decided I am going to go to the group again. I was thinking of packing it in, but its a bit rash to make that choice just based on one session. Like you say, I will try to reserve judgement - maybe the next session will be different - but I am going to prepare myself for if it isn't.

I am not sure if there are ground rules for leaders. The guy came across as a bit power mad, I have the feeling he likes to make all the rules. I might be wrong though - maybe he will have reflected on the group and changed, lets hope so!

The way you describe him he sounds like my dad;he is always right,doesnt truly listen to others and surely doesnt respect other opinions then his own plus he is arrogant and a bully.My dad is a narcissist.

And thats what that guy sounds like. I could be very wrong,I am not a psychiatrist and I wasnt there.But Im telling you here my feeling. Bea is right such people dont change.

This actually reminds me of something that makes me smile. My dad has this new thing about milk,you shouldnt drink it,its bad blah blah,he can go on and on about it with no interest or respect for other opinions.

I was having milk one day when he visited and he scolded me a little.Wellll after he went home I had 2 full glasses of milk just to be rebelious,it felt good!

Yes, he did come across as a bit narcissistic. Without going into any details, he has issues in his past which could have made him the way he is.

As far as I know milk is good for you - its got some vitamins and calcium I think. And its great for an upset stomach! Your rebellion story made me smile, thanks .

[Data]

Well I went back to the group and it really triggered me this time. They made us take part in a role-playing exercise in which I had to pretend to be a child, asking my father for what I wanted from him. I just panicked and mostly stayed silent and it was embarrassing. When I am pushed beyond my zone of tolerance, I either clam up and be silent or lose my temper. I am not comfortable with their role-playing exercises: forced laughing and pretending to be a child are not my thing. Its just triggering without being helpful.

Also, my ideas seem different from the rest of the group. They have strong opinions which seem to differ with mine, which is usually ok, but it seems to happen often. Also, I am getting to the stage where I don't feel comfortable speaking up there. So, I think its probably not the group for me .

Its a shame because I am quite restricted in the social groups I can use as I only want to go Monday-Thursday evenings, as I go back home to my wife and children on a weekend.

This last weekend with my wife was really bad with lots of arguments. And work is something I find hard. So at the moment I am finding things really difficult, and I haven't got the support of a counsellor any more.

[Tiggsy]

I'm sorry to hear things arnt great.

What you said about the group again kinda makes me feel mad... I get quite into role playing and stuff (my degree is in drama) but I dont agree and never have agreed with pressuring people into stuff like that, you either like it or you dont, its not for everyone. Did they take no for an answer this time??

[Data]

I didn't take no for an answer Tiggsy... well more like I just froze.

I have sent a message to the group forum saying I am uncomfortable with the group atmosphere and the role plays, and I am taking some time off the group. I did get a couple of supportive responses and also the group leader messaged me privately (before he read my message) so I am going to send them some polite replies that are honest enough to give feedback, without being nasty.

I need to expand my social life during the week but its hard .

[Pickle59]

(((Data))) You gave it another go and all credit to you for going back. TBH too, I would freeze if I was asked to do what you were asked to do re role play involving being a child towards a parent. I would freak out, especially in public. The least they could have done is ask people first if they were comfortable taking part in this and if they weren't, to sit it out. Sounds like you have handled the situation very sensitively too, in letting them know that you are not comfortable and gonna take a break and I'm so pleased you have had supportive responses. I hope this weekend back at home will be a bit calmer for you all.xxx

[Data]

Thanks Pickle. Its good (in a way) to know others feel the same as me.

I have exchanged some emails with someone from the group. It looks like there are all sorts of undercurrents going on within the group, there has been a bit of a power struggle also. The current leader is recognised as an "alpha male" and apparently not everyone else believes everything he says also lol.

On the surface they give the impression of being supportive, open etc, but it is in part rhetoric - underneath there are personality conflicts going on. But I guess you get that in any group and part of me worries I am doing the wrong thing by walking away, as I have to learn not to be a hermit and to get on with people. But then I look back at the role plays and think how bad I felt and then I think perhaps I am doing the right thing. But I've left it open so I can go back in future, I'll give it a month or two and see how I feel.