Anxiety Is Preventing Recovery, Anyone Else?

[Becca95]

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the eating disorders forum but I decided this one, sorry if it's in the wrong place.

Had Anorexia for over a year now, it started from having an anxiety attack last year. Since then, if I have anxiety I find it impossible to eat and sometimes won't eat to prevent getting anxiety. A vicious circle really! I haven't made much progress at all, losing a little, gaining a little etc.

My anxiety is mainly in my throat.. Sometime I get tons of saliva at the back of my throat and I have to swallow but that can cause an attack, brushing my teeth or tongue can cause an attack, breathing too deep or quick can cause an attack when I'm in the high state of anxiety. It's literally like my throat is paralysed and then that's when the attacks happens. I can't sit or stand still because that makes me panic, even if it's just fiddling with my fingers or shaking my legs it's kind of a little comfort? Not sure. Anyway, then I wretch uncontrollably, I can't stop it at all. I can't breath or talk during an attack until its temporarily stopped. Each little episode lasts a few seconds but the whole thing can last minutes. It's just wretch after wretch. Can't concentrate on anything else whatsoever, hands shake and go cold, I end up shivering and after it's all over I feel tired, weak and a bit spaced out and dizzy from trying to calm the wretching down. Anxiety seems to be worse with anticipation or excitement (yay, lucky me!). It could be going to see my boyfriend or him visiting, it could be me going to college just simple everyday things like that that normal end up with anxiety attacks. Thing is, I could be faced with the same situation over and over and it's different all the time. Sometimes I'll have attacks sometimes I won't?! My body seems to choose when it's going to have an attack. So because of all this I find it very stressful and horrible to eat before something is going to happen, i.e going out.

I've been trying to just eat and carry on with life through the anxiety but it's just not working, it's more powerful than my strength.. I was just wondering whether anyone else has bad anxiety like this which has prevented them from eating? Or has attacks like me? I don't know I just need assurance I'm not the only one struggling like this I guess. People don't seem to understand me or believe me when I say it's physically impossible to eat in high state of anxiety.. They say it's all in my head I make these situations happen because of the way I'm thinking and I can stop it but I don't believe them. Is it really all my own doing?! It feels very real and physical to me and ou of my control.

Also, sometimes I end up avoiding eating to avoid anxiety attacks where it could affect me a lot such as being around lots of people in public. I need help, I can't beat this eating disorder until my anxiety has gone or is manageable! :(

[Jinxsta]

Hi Becca,

Have you ever choked on anything?... just wondering if the anxiety is coming back from a past incident where it relates to your throat and the retching.

I can totally relate to the anxiety itself, its completely debilitating. Obviously your mind has made an association between food and panic, I get it with certain places such as if i have a panic attack in the post office in town, if i go back to that post office at a later date, even if i have forgotten about the previous time I get minimum bad anxiety and at worst a full blown anxiety attack because my mind, sub-conscious maybe has made the association post office equals panic. I'm wondering if your mind is doing the same thing.

the only thing I can suggest is that when you are able to eat that you try to do it as calmly and mindfully as possible, so even if that means the calmest you can get is on your own, snuggled up in a duvet eating crisps or whatever... just so your brain can make calming, positive associations with eating.

xx xx xx

[Becca95]

Hi Jinxsta,

Thank you very much for your reply. I don't ever recall choking. I think it may be my fear of being sick?

I totally agree with it being completely debilitating, can't do much without it interfering. Quite possibly, it is doing the same thing, I do think oh I bet I'm going to have an attack because I did last time, which doesn't help but can't help but think it. I think I just live in fear of attacks so I use food to control it. That's a bearable idea, thank you. xx

[artemis84]

Hi Becca,

What you are describing reminded me of myself a few years back. I was hospitalised for my ED and in my first few weeks as an inpatient I had severe panic attacks several times a day. They had started before I was admitted but became much more frequent and far worse inside to the degree that they were concerned I had epilepsy at one point as the anxiety led to fitting. Anyway, like you I was hugely sceptical that all of this was just caused by my own head. I was adamant that I wasn't bringing them on myself and that I had no control over when they hit and how bad they were. However, as time progressed and I worked on my general anxiety issues alongside my eating problems, the attacks did become less frequent and less severe when they did happen. I guess what I'm trying to say is that our minds really are very complicated and extremely powerful. You will not be doing this purposefully at all and there's no way that you want these things to happen but it is your mind somehow associating panic with certain triggers. If you have any support in place maybe you could ask them to focus on anxiety reduction with you before you move on to other things. Unfortunately a lot of it will come down to challenging your beliefs and 'fearing the fear and doing it anyway' which can seem terribly hard and unfair but it does work eventually. My extreme anxiety has calmed down a lot since those years so it definitely needn't be a life long thing.

[Becca95]

Thank you Artemis for your comforting words.

I'm sorry to hear you struggled so much years ago. People have said to me before that the mind is very powerful but it seems hard to believe, that we can somehow stop these attacks without knowing how to.

I have hypnotherapy sessions every two weeks, which at first worked a bit, she's worked on my subconscious mind and trained my brain into coping and dealing with my anxiety etc. I've been given breathing techniques, senses techniques and an 'anchor stone', I've even tried EFT, I admit I give up easily but when you're in a high state of anxiety I just can't focus on anything else and they don't seem to work or help.

I'm pretty sure if I didn't have this anxiety I would be able to overcome my eating disorder. It's so so frustrating! Thank you again for your reply :)

[artemis84]

You're welcome

The turning point for me was one afternoon in hospital when one of my fellow patients was 'playing up' and things escalated so that they had to be restrained by several members of staff on the ground. My anxiety was sky high and having this happen around me sent it even further. My initial reaction was to run away from the situation but my escape route was physically blocked by the restraint so I had no choice but to stay there and deal with my panic attack myself (all the nurses were occupied with the other patient). I remember beginning to hyperventilate and shake, go dizzy etc but I HAD to deal with it. I went to the window and distracted myself by counting the dandelions I could see on the lawn beneath - I had tried this before with limited success but this time because I put literally all my energy into it, it began to work and within 10 minutes I was breathing, and thinking, normally again.

I guess I'm telling you this because you're right...

when you're in a high state of anxiety I just can't focus on anything else and they don't seem to work or help.

normally, it is too easy to give up and think it isn't working and abandon the technique (whichever one you're using that time). What I learnt that day was that it needs your entire commitment in the moment. It sounds like you are trying really hard to find things that may help which is fab, just stick with them and try to suspend your judgement about how successful they may or may not be for a while. All it takes is one chink in your mind's armour to show you that you can, and will, beat the anxiety. Good luck

[Becca95]

I can imagine that being very hard, I hate feeling like there's no way out. I shall have to try and focus all my energy on something next time. Thank you so much Artemis for your advice and support, also thank you for sharing your experience with me, much appreciated! :)

[brisbane]

Hi Becca,

I relate to high levels of anxiety and difficulty in eating and swallowing and feeling it in one’s throat. I recovered from an ED a few years ago and the hardest period (highest anxiety) was the few weeks at the beginning when i made a commitment to eat 3 meals a day, without exception.

I’m not really clear from your post about whether food itself triggers anxiety, for me this was a big part of my ED. And the thoughts that I’d have around eating, about what will happen to my body, and feeling like an absolute pig for eating. I found it really helpful to journal before and immediately after eating, to help me become aware of what thoughts were causing my distress, so i could start to challenge them. I also had the company of a beautiful German Sheppard i was looking after while i ate which often made me smile and see another perspective (i.e. a big dog with a huge tongue dropping saliva as he thought of eating my food!)

[Becca95]

Hi Brisbane,

Thank you very much for your reply.

I think what it is for me is I have a fear of being sick, when I had my first anxiety attack, which was the start of everything, I panicked because I wretch with my attacks so it's like I'm going to be sick but I'm not. Since then I've just had such high anxiety about eating to the point where I just absolutist hate food now, I can't stand it and I really wish I could live without it. Anyway, now anxiety is a problem before and after eating, before going out, whilst out, meeting up with people etc. I now live in fear of my attacks because they're horrible, which is why I avoided food as I felt it fueled my anxiety, it's so much better with an empty stomach.

Thing is, with my anxiety like this it's caused depression because I just got so fed up of not being able to do anything! Earlier this year I had to take over a months break from college because I just couldn't make it in, as I was having such bad attacks and several of them. Ive had to miss out on parties, social events etc, which every teenager should be doing, except I can't..

I've had the ed for just over a year now, I've been attending counselling/therapy session at CAMHS for my ed and anxiety for about 8 months now. I also have hypnotherapy sessions too. I seem to be going in a cycle, I get better and think this is the start of my recovery and then I crash back down and think I'm never going to see the light.

For a week now I've had to try and reach 2500 calories as I've just being losing weight steadily. At my worst which was quite recently I was getting under 1000 calories, professionals were surprised.. So far, I've managed to reach just over 2000, which is a massive achievement to me, it's soo much hard work and even harder work when I have anxiety! Thing is I honestly can't see myself eating much more and I need to reach 2500 and more to make a difference on my weight.. The thing I find the hardest is whenever I have to go out somewhere or something different happens anxiety shoots up to a high and it feels impossible, it just ruins my life and I honestly can't see myself ever getting back to how I was before all this, just don't know what to do

[Becca95]

* oh and just to add on, my anxiety attacks can be triggered by the slightest thing as I have said above, brushing teeth/tongue, breathing in deeply or too quick or slow, having food get stuck at the back of my throat, if I don't take a small enough bite that can set them off or even just words associated with what's making me anxious can, it's ridiculous!

[brisbane]

Hi Becca,

really big hugs to you! I’m so sorry to hear about how hard this time is for you. It sounds like you are doing so much to help yourself right now - asking questions, accessing supports, trying to keep your calorie intake up, hypnotherapy sessions and keeping up college more or less. You are a very courageous and spirited person for doing all this. Recovery will come.

I think the cyclic thing you describe is normal, well that is the way that it happened in my recovery. I kept thinking “at last, I’ve made it” only to crash down again and then again, and have more challenges come up. But then one time it didn’t crash down again in regards to food – i maintained it, and have been doing so since 15 Jan 2011. I was working at an art gallery and bought myself a painting for the recovery process, and wrote that date and inspiring messages on the back for myself. I just looked at that painting and it reminded me, a big thing for my recovery was my first full menstrual cycle where I didn’t crash down, as I always got more anxious/crazy/depressed etc at a certain point in my cycle, and one of my early challenges was to be aware and get through this. That marked the start of ED recovery for me. But my story is different from you in that only when i recovered from food-related behaviours did i see my depression and anxiety, so after a time of joy and peace, phase two of recovery started!! I think it is remarkable that you are aware of your anxiety issues now, and can recover from two things in one hit. Seems like much better value

Reading over your post, two things jump out to me. The first is that i want you to know that all of the answers are within you. You are the only one who knows your truth and what sort of recovery you want and how to do it. Health professionals and family and other people are great supports and for me they were essential, but they only facilitated the process. They could not give me the answers. They could not fix me. They could not give me the courage to try new ways of being. The helped me immeasurably, but it was me that healed me, with the support of others. I wish i could explain what i mean more clearly – i guess what i’m saying is that i believe that in order to recover, part of the process is being with ourselves and asking for our own answers.

The second thing that jumps out at me is something you wrote:

“I think what it is for me is I have a fear of being sick, when I had my first anxiety attack, which was the start of everything, I panicked because I wretch with my attacks so it's like I'm going to be sick but I'm not.”

Have you ever actually vomited up anything from an attack? It sounds like you have become so afraid of retching (and i agree, it is a totally horrible action) that you are doing anything and everything to avoid it, and are so hypervigilant to anything setting the anxiety attack off. I used to often ask my therapist to bring a bucket into our sessions because i was so nauseas, and i have had periods where i feel like i want to vomit for several days/ weeks. But for me i never actually did vomit up anything, i only dry retched. Although I’m not sure whether that is important or not.

When i have intense fear (or anger or something that scares me) i sometimes say something to myself like:

“Ok, i feel like i want to vomit. I hate that feeling. I hate retching. I want to avoid it at all costs. I want to run away. And, despite all this, I am going to sit with this feeling and let it totally consume me, and if that means i’ll retch, then so be it. I will accept this feeling and try to hear its message. I’m going to stop running away from it. I’m going to give it space”.

These days I do this process in my yoga classes – i do it within myself (i.e. don’t share it with anyone) but being in that group space feels really supportive to me. In my early days i would do that with my therapist there to support me, and i’d describe to her everything i was feeling in my body and thinking.

I always reach this point of letting go and being willing to feel the full strength of something only after holding on for a long time before! But then suddenly the pain of avoidance/shutting down/destruction in my life etc becomes greater than my fear of facing that emotion/problem/fear head on – and then i can start to accept and explore it and go into the eye of the storm so to speak..

I really don’t want to tell you how to approach this Becca, you’re an amazing person and you know what is best for you. If anything i say doesn’t sit true just say “thanks but no thanks”. All i can do is share my story and my experience. Happy to chat more on this if it helps.

Big hugs again xx

[Becca95]

Wow, thank you so so much Brisbane for your lovely reply, it really touched me!

I honestly feel like Ive tried everything I possibly can and nothing has even helped much, still exactly where I was a yer ago, anxiety wise.

I think you deserve so much credit, well done for overcoming your ed, it must feel great! You're just one of many inspirations

I have been told I am extremely lucky to still have my menstrual cycle! Even though I'm around 80% weight for height I still have mine, they're not the same as thy used to be but I still have mine. Thy found it very surprising, haha! I do struggle more with my cycles though, more the beginning because I feel so ill and for some reason feel my chances to vomit increases so I try and stick to the minimum so I feel comfortable, which I realise is the worst thing I can do as my body needs more around this time but I'm just soo tired of struggling.

I know I'm responsible for my recovery, that's why I feel such a failure all the time because I haven't got anywhere and people don't think I'm tying hard enough. When speaking to my uncle last year we made eachother realise something, he's disabled and we were talking about our daily struggles when he thanked me. He said "There is no trying harder, the hardest thing is trying." from that day on I realised that trying is how I'm gonna get anywhere, as long as I'm trying that's all that maters, right?

I just don't know how I can deal with the anxiety..

Around seven years ago I had anxiety issues, the same as now but obviously not as severe because I overcame it pretty quickly, most memories are not there though as I was quite young so I don't remember how I recovered. Anyway, when I had the problem then, I normally used to bring up bile, which was horrible but after that had happened I was fine, it was like an overexcitment thing?

However, now it's just dry retching, there has been the very odd occasion where I've vomited a little in my mouth but I've panicked so much I've swallowed it. (yeah I know disgusting! ) Everyones said to me well you have never been sick so there's no reason to be afraid, I just think I know, try telling that to my brain.. I honestly feel I have no control over my brain, it just does what it pleases.

It's just the problems I'm experienced is it prevents me from doing things, I'm always aphrensive about going out, in case my body can't take it and decides it's going to have several attacks. It's really unnerving in front of people, I'm pretty good at hiding my attacks, most of the time people don't know but still I just wanna be on my own. So I find it so hard to go anywhere if my anxiety kicks in. Going to visit my boyfriend is such a massive effort and an ordeal for me. I have to eat something before I go anywhere, so I spend ages trying to eat as I have o take tiny bites to avoid retching/gagging. But then if he comes round than the anticipation of his arrival sends me into a high state of anxiety. I just can't win! It's just kind of like, what's the point? Im not really living life properly am I? No one believes it's as bad as I'm making it out to be, they make it sound so simple and easy but it's really not..

Thank you so much for your kind words again Brisbane, and for sharing your story. I hope one day I can be doing what you've done for me to others giving hope..

[brisbane]

Hi Becca,

Big hugs, I appreciate your kind words. I’m sorry people don’t seem to understand how bad your anxiety is right now – it must be incredibly frightening to feel there is nothing you can do to stop it xx

You wrote:

“I know I'm responsible for my recovery, that's why I feel such a failure all the time because I haven't got anywhere and people don't think I'm trying hard enough. “

Rubbish! People have got it wrong if they think you aren’t trying hard enough. From what you’ve written it is clear that you are trying very hard indeed!

I wonder if the bigger challenge is actually not trying so hard, and rather trying to let go of control? I don’t mean stopping activities like therapy and college etc, but instead stopping trying so hard to not be anxious. Letting go of control is something I am working on. e.g. control for me is wanting things to turn out a particular way, wanting people to view me a certain way, wanting things to happen when i want them to happen, wanting to appear composed and ‘together’, wanting to always appear competent(whatever that is) and so on.

Does a lot of your pain and fear come because you don’t want to experience anxiety? Anxiety is horrid but I question what it would feel like to stop resisting the anxiety... to stop being afraid of it... to just let it come in full rein... Would it be like when you were younger, as you wrote:

“Anyway, when I had the problem then, I normally used to bring up bile, which was horrible but after that had happened I was fine,...”

Forgive my ramblings if they are off track!

I like your comment of having a brain that seems to do things of its own free will, ha ha, I relate to that! I could imagine that as a cute cartoon.

Keep questioning, keep asking, keep doing stuff... you’ll get there! xx

[Becca95]

Thank you once again Brisbane aha!

I think people are just frustrated with me because I say I'm trying but they don't see the evidence because one year on I'm still exactly where I was.

Thinking about it, I think I'm maybe scared of spiralling out of control. With controlling what I eat and do kind of helps control the anxiety, if I just let it take over me I'd feel that maybe I'd never get that control back again? If that makes sense? I'm scared of the anxiety consuming me, it's the worst place to be..

Right now, I'm being moaned at for not eating my breakfast quick enough, I was expected to go out shopping and buy foods that I can just about tolerate. Well, I got up feeling really ill, don't want to eat anything If I'm honest but then that's what I feel like most of the time. I just think what's the point in making me feel worse? Oh well.. I can only do what I feel I can do, yeah I'm taking forever but to me that doesn't matter. Ive spent hours over meals before and I've just carried on because I'm determined to finish the meal.

I often get this thing where I cannot physically chew food at a normal/fast pace. I've tried and I jut can't, I'm like a cow chewing on cud.. I don't know why that happens?

I hope letting go of your controls is going well and helping?

Yes, I think so, I hate my attacks so so much that I try and avoid them at all costs. I've made myself stay at home for almost a week now because I'm worried that if I go out, my eating plan will go out the window because naturally I struggle in these situations. I have to go out a few times this week but when I dont have to I wont.

When I'm having anxiety attacks I obviously have to let them take over me, I just sit there waiting for that break where I can breath again. Waiting for that tiny chance of calming myself down but I just have to wait until the anxiety has won.

To be honest I'm not sure what would happen if I let it take over, an enormous wreck I should imagine but I'm too scared I don't want it going to far :/

You're fine Brisbane I'm just extremely thankful for your replies!

Haha, yeah, it honestly feels like that, no joke. Even when it comes to emotions, it seems to decide what mood I'll be in and if it wants me to cry for no reason it will make me cry! Probably sound a bit weird saying this? Oh well

Thank you once again Brisbane! xx

[brisbane]

Hi Becca,

More hugs. And no that doesn’t sound weird at all. I think that many people today are not connected to their bodies/emotions or to their thoughts – so things just seemingly come out of the blue. I think there is a way to get back connected but that it is no quick process... sort of like training a tiger... or perhaps just a kitten!

I want to suggest Becca that you start to take some mini-holidays from your anxiety! It seems like it is consuming your life and that you’re gonna get worn out if you can’t take breaks from it. By the sounds of it going out in public is stressful, so perhaps something you can do at home or close to home would be less stressful. Do you do anything like massage (by self or another), or warm baths with bubbles, or sitting in the garden smelling everything you can and focussing on what you can see and hear, or sitting and drawing (without the c=critical mind!), or meditating, or patting/brushing pets, or listening to music, or something to give yourself “time-out” from the anxiety? Something that is enjoyable to you. I think it is really important to find ways to take breaks, everyone needs a break now and then.

Becca, you’ve mentioned a couple of times that you feel that you are still in exactly the same place as you were a year ago. If this is true, then maybe the way you are approaching your anxiety is not helping? It sounds like you are already trying very hard. Maybe you need to change your approach? Maybe you need to do something differently. I am not trying to over-simplify your situation or anything like that, I just think if something isn’t working then maybe we need to try something different. I don’t mean doing something radical or changing support people necessarily; maybe just a change in approach. And maybe you don't have to figure this our on your own, maybe there are people that can help and guide you.

Have you got a therapist or someone in your life that you trust enough to share your concerns about being in the same place as a year ago and how anxiety is affecting your recovery, someone who will listen? Or maybe you already have the answers yourself.

You’re doing really well Becca! Freedom from anxiety will come xx

[Becca95]

Thank you Brisbane again, Im so sorry for keep posting lots and lots of stuff but I completely appreciate the time you put into replying to my post so thank you very much!

That makes sense and I appreciate that it will take a long time.

Oh it really is consuming my life, I don't get anxiety all the time but I do suffer quite often, well actually no. I get anxiety pretty much every time I try and eat, it's like my brain is saying NO! You don't like food, it's going to make you ill or something silly like that. It's trying to stop me from being comfortable with eating. The only things I have tried out of your list is drawing, brushing pets and listening to music, which, when I think about it. You're spot on, I obviously don't experience anxiety doing these things, unless I'm anxious when I'm doing them.. Music is one of my passions, I adore listening to music and I love singing, I listen to music near enough everyday and it has helped me through some very dark times.

Isn't it weird how when you're low you listen to depressing music and because you can relate to it, it kind of does the feeling for you. Temporary relief, you don't have to think about everything thats going on because it's told to you? That's how it happens for me anyways

I think you're right though, maybe a break or two might be nice and might help. The last couple of days I've been so so tired, which has mucked up my mood so Ive shut myself away, listened to music or just tried to have a nap, which is nice but then I feel really lazy and a slob. :/ haha

Yes, you're right, I do somehow need to change my approach, it's just knowing how or what to..

I had an appointment today with the eating disorder team people and they're saying they're not sure about my diagnosis anymore. I fit criteria of a few (Anorexia, Food Avoidance, EDNOS..), however also, they think possibly that I do have body/weight issues and my brain is using anxiety as a way to make me not eat.. They said Anorexia is a very secretive illness, but I refused, said I'm pretty sure it's all down to anxiety but I guess it could be that that is true and I just have no idea of it. So they're not too sure about what to do, whether I should leave the eating disorder place and see different people for my anxiety. Then equally, they also said that because my brain isn't getting much energy it can't fight the anxiety so maybe if I return to a healthy weight, things might start to work themselves out. So, I guess it's good that they recognise it, it's a bit tricky and I kind of feel they sort of get how I feel now; confused! I do kind of feel like a bit of a lost cause though.

I tell these people at the eating disorders place most things, about the fact Im not getting anywhere and Im finding it hard, going round in circles etc. They realise this because my weight for height has been steady for a year (80%) so they know something needs to be done. I think it's been left at the moment that I try and pack in as many calories as possible, which I have sort of realised isn't lots and lots of food, it can be calorie rich things. I've put on weight since my last weigh in so that's something, blood pressure is fine, no big evaluation when standing up, which is good. Heart rate is a little low but I've been having and still having lot's of tests on my heart, not to do with that place so all is good health wise, pretty much.

I guess I just need to continue and hopefully at some point, something will click or change and then things may become easier or make more sense.

Thank you so much for our lovely and encouraging words Brisbane, you're such a lovely and kind person.

Hope you're well xx

[brisbane]

Hi Becca, no need to be sorry, hearing from you helps me in a lot of ways, and that aside, i enjoy chatting with you!

Nice to hear you have a strong connection to music. It can be a great way to unwind. I have theme songs that have carried me through part of my recovery. I can listen to one song on repeat for like one hour plus if it resonates with me, usally the lyrics. I once told my life story through song, at an eating issues group run at this feminist centre (and no, I wasn’t singing, i wish! i just played tracks and spoke). I admit that I do restrict myself on melancholic music though – i love it – so often i’ll allow myself a few melancholic songs but i’ll always finish with something to lighten my mood – not necessarily totally up and pop, but something lighter. I find it helps me get out of the deeper lows – i learnt it at a depression management group. I am also not allowed to listen to too much dance music when i’m anxious, or at least to finish and wind down with something more mellow!

Embrace the laziness and slob-ness! If From what you’ve written it seems that you have little chance of becoming a slob, you seem a ‘doing’ active person. And even if you go too far and get really lazy, nature wont allow it, and you'll swing back in to balance after a bit. Well that's always happens to me if i take something too far.

Oh Becca, you are so not a lost case! You are just ahead of your time. The medical model is the lost case, wel maybe not lost, but lagging behind. After I recovered from my ED and then was hit with anxiety and depression i read a lot into dual diagnosis. The idea that EDs and addictions manifest as the result of underlying emo issues, and vice versa. Many many people who have an ED have an underlying emotional imbalance. Many ppl with BPD have ED and addiction problems. And so on. But the health profession hasn’t figured how to integrate this together yet. It makes me mad! Angry! I also felt let down that my ED service didn’t give me the heads-up about possible anxiety/depression. So Becca, your symptoms are perfectly normal, in my view the difference is that you have a lot of awareness and can see both your anxiety and ED at such an early stage. Its a shame that the health system doesn’t cater better for a multi-disciplinary approach. And my ED was atypical too – didn’t perfectly fit a diagnosis box. I’m pretty confident that all the support you need is available – just that it might be inside a few different services. Maybe this will give you exposure to more people and more approaches so give you more tools and learnings - like a positive. Anyway can't be helped - it's your truth/ journey.

I’m really glad to hear that the eating disorder team you spoke to seemed to validate your experience and understand this to some extent, and to recognise that you need both ED and anxiety services. Good on you for communicating this! As to which service comes first, or whether you can access both at once, well that’s a tricky issue. If i were in your shoes i’d find out info about what both services offer, check out wait times (if they apply), costs, and ask the people who know you best/you trust most what they reckon, and then ask yourself what feels right.

The sense i get from your posts is that anxiety is the stopper right now e.g. the title to this post and most of your comments have been about anxiety not about food? What do you think? And it’s really valid what the team said about having enough nutrition to help your brain/body cope with and engage in the therapy etc – a difficult decision. Keep asking questions Becca, you’ll find the way. It sounds like you’re doing great with your weight and health given how difficult it is for you to eat.

Thanks Becca, i’m travelling well right now. My big fear at the moment is a fear of being happy. Such a sinister fear. I find it hard to cope when both my anxiety and my depression drop away and i’m reasonably happy. Each day i’m noticing how i want to act (pull away), and typically acting a totally different way (come forward), to slowly slowly get some change happening. I’m still quite isolated in terms of having close friends in my city, but just have to accept that for now and know it can change any moment.

Hugs xx

[Becca95]

Awhh, I enjoy talking to you too, it's nice to talk to people who understand on here.

I agree, music can really help to lighten the mood. That's a nice way to tell your story, with music, I like that.

I suppose you're right, can't do much if I don't have the energy but if I do then I can do things and help around the house.

I just feel they're not really sure what else to do with me. I think they have said something about most people develop like anxiety later on or something but I just have then both at the same time. My councillor also said to me that its most likely I'll end up suffering from anxiety and depression for the rest of my life, he could somehow tell that. Just have to learn how to manage it I guess.

I have noticed a massive change in my emotional state since having my ED, I'm not sure if it's just down to the ED or like you say, an underlying issue. It doesn't help though, if I'm having a bad day with my mood I tend to struggle more. I've tried hinting to the professionals about my mood and other things but they don't seem to really dig into it. I havent been entirely honest because I can't bring myself to say everything, I'm a very shy and reserved person around other people i don't know too well and ill only really talk about something if they ask. I realise I'd probably get more help if I did speak up but I just wouldn't feel comfortable at all and I find a lot of things really hard to talk about, I always keep things to myself.

Thank you, I get all my help on the NHS so it's free, I'm very lucky an fortunate to have this privilege, I know! I'm not sure what they're going to do because they don't even know what my problems are really anymore, I think I'll have to wait for a bit and see what they say. I think I definitely need more help with my anxiety though because it's clear that something needs to be changed. Yet another person to see and meet and start all over again with! I did used to see someone for my anxiety but just talkig about it doesn't really help to be honest and then she left.. I'm not sure if there's anyone left at the eating disorder place who deals with anxiety now, I'll have to find out.

Yes, that's completely right, the anxiety is the hurdle at the moment. I will, I'll try and get some more help. thank you!

I'm glad you're okay Brisbane. That's not a nice a nice fear to have, I'm sorry to hear about that. What makes you scared of being happy? I know sometimes with my depression, I feel I don't deserve to be happy and should feel really low. I hope things get better and improve for you. Can't be nice, I feel for you. Hugs returned! Xx

[brisbane]

Hey Becca,

Do you want to write a novel together?! It’s lovely that we can sprout so many words – you’re an insightful and kind person Becca. And very strong.

A few things you wrote really stood out to me and I’d like to quote them. I hope that is okay – sometimes it annoys me when other quote my words, oops!

“My councillor also said to me that its most likely I'll end up suffering from anxiety and depression for the rest of my life, he could somehow tell that. Just have to learn how to manage it I guess.”

I’m sorry but I don’t like with what your councillor said, and nor do i agree. Sometimes professionals aren’t always helpful in all they say. Okay, so i’m struggling with some bdp stuff, but i have recovered from many years of an ED, and many years of being suicidal and impulsive. I have seem amazing ‘awakenings’ in other people. I do believe that change is possible – i see it all around me and within me. For me personally, i don’t consider myself “cured” from my ED but i am “recovered”. It doesn’t impact my life anymore. I have a tendency that when i get really stressed/ overwhelmed etc to want to revert to these behaviours – so when i see any warning signs i use the tools i’ve learnt to stop it in its tracks. My view is that it is the same with my anxiety and depression. My depression is not being as low as it used to be, and anxiety i take three steps forward and then two back, so still a work in progress. I’ve not gotten formal help before for anxiety. I believe in recovery from any mental health affliction – no matter how atypical it seems – how different or strange -but maybe not always a cure. That’s my view. I had an ED and anxiety at the same time – I just didn’t recognise it. I think it is so wonderful that you can see both – but i’m sorry that you’re in limbo at the moment with treatment, it sounds like a difficult and uncertain place to be. Trust the process Becca xx

“I havent been entirely honest because I can't bring myself to say everything, I'm a very shy and reserved person around other people i don't know too well and ill only really talk about something if they ask. I realise I'd probably get more help if I did speak up but I just wouldn't feel comfortable at all and I find a lot of things really hard to talk about, I always keep things to myself.”

That is totally okay Becca. Your limits are your truth, they need respecting. I learnt a wonderful phrase in my first group, the ED one: “challenge by choice”. That is accepting new challenges like opening up and reaching out, bit by bit, when it feels like it is within reach, like i will be able to cope with any outcome. Be kind to yourself and don’t force yourself – it can be awful to share too much too soon and then feel exposed... its good to trust people first.

I know well about not being open – i used to be a closed book “happy face facade”. The first two times i saw psychologists they said there was nothing wrong with me – because of the picture i portrayed, as this confident young woman! In time i’ve opened up more and more, but i still respect my boundaries. If i have to have a confronting interaction (e.g. therapist, boss etc) then i will prepare by writing down what i want to say. Sometimes i don’t clearly know what my boundaries of disclosure are so this helps me find that out before hand, so i know what i am willing to share, and then i also check in again with myself at the time to see how i feel about sharing.

“Yet another person to see and meet and start all over again with!”

I hear you Becca!!!! This is one of the first things i told my new therapist, how i am so over the “here’s my life story thing”. We identified what bits i hate most and are leaving them for down the track, making it not as bad as i imagined. But that aside, starting over sux!

“What makes you scared of being happy? I know sometimes with my depression, I feel I don't deserve to be happy and should feel really low.”

Am not too sure, I think the “i don’t deserve happiness” is tied into it. And if i’m happy i am a lot more outgoing and social and i still find it takes a lot of energy to be around people so much, i’m sensitive and i listen really deeply, and am often getting triggered. Being depressed i numb out a bit and sort of let life pass by. The more assertive and authentic i’m becoming its getting better, but i still need help with learning new skills in this regard and putting them into practice. Meditation is helping me make peace/understand my fears. So yeah, i guess whenever i’m happy for too long i end up exhausted. I’m waiting for a long term (6 month+) group to start, and have just started therapy with the view to seeing this therapist long term, and i think they will be key supports for me. I always did just a bit if this and a bit of that, so continuity will be good for me.

Enough words for now, big hug xx

[Becca95]

Awhh wow, a novel! Golly gosh! What sort of novel? Wow, wouldn't think I was any good at writing!

I don't mind you quoting, don't worry.

I know, when he said that I was thinking 'oh, great.. thanks for that!' It did make me feel a bit worse hearing that, as Im sure anyone would. This added to my feeling of being a 'lost cause', can't be helped because I'm different.

I'm glad you've recovered from your eating disorder, and you're able to stop going back to your old habits.

That's very true, what you've said. Maybe, one day I might feel I can speak out and confess everything but I don't have too, I'm not causing myself great harm and I'm not in immediate danger so it's not essential they know. I think it's important to feel as comfortable as possible because although I'm so paranoid about everything and worry a lot and don't feel comfortable as me in the first place, putting myself in an even more uncomfortable situation wouldn't be good at all.

I have written down things in the past but then bottled out and have left it because I just can't bring myself to say the words, it's not easy talking about things you don't want to talk about.

I'm just so sick of having to see so many people and hearing different things, trying different things. I just want to be better already! haha

Oh my, that is what I've been struggling with so mch recently. Sensitive to what everyone says, which makes me angry at them for no reason, it really sucks and I just want these thoughts to go! Awhh that must be hard, sorry to hear Brisbane but it's good that you've got lots of support and you're working on your problems.

Big hugs xx

[brisbane]

Hey Becca,

I meant that we have already written a sort of mini novel on this post!! you're very easy and friendly to chat to - and the words just seem to flow.

yeah i hear you, i'd like to be 'better' already. although come to think of it, i'm not quite sure what 'better' is for me. and i do value growth and challenges and change, so perhaps i would be disaisified if i got 'better' all of a sudden and couldn't grow anymore!

and yeah, opening up definitely takes time, and everyone wants to share different amounts, and that's what makes us all unique.

more hugs for friday! xx

[Becca95]

Sorry for the delayed reply

Ooohhhhh, I see now. Sorry I'm a bit slow sometimes or stupid haha feel silly now! Awhhthank you, likewise you're very easy and friendly to talk to.

I agree with what you said. Let's hope things improve for eachother eh? hugs returned xx

[Lily-Bee]

Hi,

I would like to chime in

Thought I would explain something about anxiety and such, if the things I share are old news to you then sorry

The thing with anxiety is that if you bow to it it will claim more space and more and more. What I mean is that you might have noticed that over time your anxiety has gotten worse not better and that you started out avoiding maybe just food but then followed other things like brushing your teeth.

You said somewhere you need the anxiety to be less before you can manage. But you know what; that is not going to happen, you can wait till the cows come home the anxiety wont just go away.

For it to go away you need to challenge it, you need to do things that scare you (baby steps) in order to realize truly that the things you fear really are not that horrible.

Like Brisbane said; when she had no choice, when she couldn't run away from her anxiety and had to deal with it she found that she could and she had a breakthrough. I advise against trying to face everything at once but slowly do things that scare you, do them anyway.

You will feel anxiety doing it that's ok, you can say to yourself; ok anxiety lets do this together. You will find that if you repeat scary things often enough the anxiety will go...So doing it comes first, the anxiety leaving comes second. Thats how it works.

Your mind will fight you on it, its very normal to have many thoughts about why you shouldn't or cant do it. Those thoughts are ok too but you don't have to buy into them; you can practise anyway. You can say; thank you mind for your concern but Im going to do this.

What helps is to ask yourself this; am I willing to be uncomfortable for a bit anxiety wise etc in order to recover from my ED?

Do you feel you have the right therapy? Are you being give any particular kind?

Lily

[Lily-Bee]

PS I in no way mean to imply these things are easy or that you are not trying hard enough!

[brisbane]

Hey Becca, i do have a habit of saying things and people taking me literally, please don’t feel silly! When i lived in Vietnam it took ages for my friends to understand my sense of humour, they thought i was just saying weird things, very annoying!!

And anyway, i do dream of writing a novel some day - i like the spiritual folk tale kind of things – i’m waiting till i'm more recovered to start! (hmm, so the book might not eventuate until my next life if i’m waiting for ‘perfect’ recovery...). But writing to you showed me the possibility of pairing up with someone to write, and how i find that really helpful and enjoyable, i guess i lack the confidence and internal drive to do it alone, and like to be part of a team and supported/give support. So in some ways I was earnest!

Have you ever dreamt of writing a book?

Yes, to mutual recovery xx