Dead End?

[Kara.]

I am often angry in my therapy. I am demanding. Many times I find it hard to communicate the most vulnerable sides of me although I try very hard. Because I am not successful in communicating I feel rejected and incredibly isolated.

I have aversion to connection though I want connection very much. Connection equals rejection. Humiliation. This comes from a growing feeling of warmth regarding T and the increasing need to be liked, even loved, by T.

T seemed to like me in the beginning. T hoped that T's interventions would make a difference, help me. Of course I didn't allow this to happen as I feel that I am hateful and very sensitive to rejection and abandonment. I always become hateful after sometime in a relationship that's why I'm not in one. I protect others, but also myself from being disliked.

T agreed today that I'm difficult to be with. T is most certainly fed up with me and wants to see me leaving. It must be so frustrating and exhausting to have a patient who is constantly fighting. And I wish T to like me???????

T also said that there were nice aspects to me but I don't show them very often. Nice aspects to me?

There's no winning. Dead end.

[artemis84]

T also said that there were nice aspects to me but I don't show them very often.

You show nothing but nice-ness around here kara!

Sounds like a very difficult therapy session today. I wonder if your T was hoping to provoke some kind of reaction from the more vulnerable parts of you? I don't know. But I understand how hard it can be to let them communicate and also what it feels like to be so isolated by communication conflict.

Hugs to you xx

[Kara.]

Thank you for your supporting words Artemis.

I have been showing my vulnerability but T often doesn't get how this vulnerability can get me so low and depressed and this triggers mistrust and anger. And isolation, rejection and so on. I wrote something that came from a very deep and hurt place in me but I felt that T didn't have much interest in it.

The fantasy that I won't go back and that I will spare T of my presence, gives me relief. I don't have to witness being disliked by someone who has become so important to me. And I don't have to hate T and myself for it. Yes, relief.

I'm usually hopeful but hope is failing me at the moment :-(

Hugs to you Artemis.

[bluemoon5]

Hi kara, if it helps at all I related so much to your post. I read something a few days ago about how some people are the opposite to dependant pds where they want to have commections but fear them so much. This fight between needing love but fearing rejection and dependance (because we are bad people) means we become very self reliant but at the same time hate being alone. Afer mzny years of people.getting fed up of me i have tried to not have social conntact or connections. I even tell people who seem to be attracted to me tbat they will get fed up withme and leave in a.few months.

This ambivilance is so so draining. In therapy so much is about the relationship. Not sure I am explaini g this right. Think it can come from disorganised attachment as a child. I have no ides how to be me in a relationship and if I don't find a way to be how I think I should be I am horrible and ofcourse people eventually don't tolerate this. But in T it is different they are conssistnt, are honest and are not trying to get rid of us even if we think so.

[Kara.]

Yes Bluemoon. That is it for me too. But I usually end my relationships as I can't stand waiting for them to break up with me.

You know, there is a great focus in therapy for the patient to become dependent on T and develop positive feelings for T. Essential for me would be to have someone who could also develop positive feelings for me. I can't expect someone to like me if I attack though. But i can't feel that there is anything good inside of me to be liked and then i attack more. It's the desire to be loved mixed with the belief that inside there is only disgusting things that are repellent instead of attractive. I can't imaginethe inside of me being liked. I want it so badly though.

Thank you bluemoon. If I happen to have the magic answer i will share it with much pleasure. Hugs.

[addy2]

Hugs karaindrou I have only ever seen the niceness in you, you understand how others here feel and not many people can do that, you have helped me so much. I also struggle with connections I just can't anymore everyone hurts me and to stop that relationships need to stop. I guess the thing to do would be to challenge the thoughts but we all know how hard it is, I'm sure your therapist still likes you although I understand the feeling but if your like me you'll always feel that way, I really wish I knew the answer for you and bluemoons and for everyone xx

[bluemoon5]

Yes I understand, being loved for being you. Good bad and shades of grey is what your t will know you have, even if you want to prove your core is only disgusting things. But your core isn't because you prove that here in the wonderful kind caring thoughful way you are. Fighting to not be vulnerable but wanting yout t to care. Got to be a defence because of bad things that have happened not because you are so bad. Xxxxx how about taking some.of.the hope and kindness I have and that you have shared with me for yourself and as you often say to me be compassionate with yourself xx

[Kara.]

Dear addy and bluemoon. Thank you for helping me.

addy, yes. It's so hard to change the thought and feeling pattern. It's so real inside. Maybe I should give up and accept that I will always feel this way. Maybe this is what I should do. I haven;t yet been able to do so. I din't want to live my life without knowing what to be loved feels like. The saddest thing is that i had people that loved me very much. I couldn't cope with it. Thank you addy for helping me. You always help me think and be hopeful.

bluemoon you brought me to tears. I was not being compassionate towards myself and I will be. Thank you for reminding me and thank you for sharing your hope and kindness. I will try to not engage in dramatic fantasies and see what happens. What else?

Big hug addy and bluemoon. Thanks for being here.

[Lily-Bee]

I just wanted to add you are concluding that your T doesnt like you but that might not be the case at all.

[Threemoons]

I agree with Lily, dear Kara. I see the good in you and I bet that T sees it also. You're a very lovable person, believe me.

[Kara.]

Yes, Lily, I am concluding that T doesn't like me. It is so difficult to believe otherwise because my belief that I am not good is so huge. How to challenge these thoughts and feelings?

Thank you Threemoons. I appreciate your words. There are good aspects to me. But that core that I think is the youngest part of me... that feels the most real but the most damaged and disgusting. Maybe it is ok but I don't know how to think it.

Thank you both. You help me.

[Kara.]

Feelings. Beliefs. They need changing.

[Lily-Bee]

Maybe start by realising really that you cannot read minds and that youre projecting. Accept that maybe youre wrong, that you do not know.

[Kara.]

Thank you Lily. In fact I did not know. T replied to an email with much generosity. It's also the splitting, isn't it? One moment of tension is enough to define the whole relationship. The part becomes bigger than the whole. This sense of being defective needs changing. Yes. that moment of not knowing is dreadful. Staying with that tension too instead of wanting to have something defined and objective straight away.

Thank you.

[burning wing]

Hi karaindrou
From what I saw here you seem to be one of the nicest people I've ever met. Seriously, you always show so much understanding towards others and find the correct words to support people in their hard times. For a borderline, it might be difficult to believe someone will not stop liking you after a disagreement or a frustration on their side, but other people don't have the same splitting we do. If your T didn't like you, T would have given up on you long time ago. Now T has no logical reason to stop liking you just because you haven't been feeling well lately. T knows BPD and understands the way you feel, at least is supposed to. I believe thinking that someone doesn't like you is projection, it is the result of a strong emotion you are feeling, probably you're frustrated with how therapy is currently going for you, you feel you're going through some difficulties now in therapy and you may feel like others are frustrated with you the same way you're frustrated with yourself, but that I believe isn't true. You're a great person and I believe you have what it takes to achieve recovery.

[Kara.]

Burning wing, thank you for your kind words. It's lovely to read your words but makes my stomach twist. I will stay with the feeling though and with the possibility. I think that part of bpd recovery really is counterintuitive. As good was so mixed up with bad, or even absent, when good comes one way one will necessarily feel pain. At first one thinks that this pain needs to be avoided, as instinctively we do, but this pain has to be bore instead. With time it will hopefully become natural and pleasurable.

I'm a good listener that's true but I am also hell!! :-) I don't like it, specially because it makes me fear that people will leave. But as you said this may not be the case. In fact I was the one to break up with partners for different reasons but the last ones was because I couldn't stand being so sadistic and paranoid at times. I couldn't understand why they were with me and I hated it that they were still there.

It's hard to imagine what it might be like for other people. I know what is it to split but can't quite imagine what is it like not to split.

You're right. Therapy has been very difficult and I have been in crisis for few weeks now.

Burning wings, thank you. Hugs.

[Lily-Bee]

I wanted to add something;

Your belief is that youre no good but we have our own belief; we like you.

Its like the color green, you might hate it and others might like it.

I do hope you can get to feel about yourself the way we feel about you.

And wanted to commend you as it sounds like youre going through a hard time and really working your ass off to manage. You are brave and strong my dear.

[Kara.]

Thank you for coming back to add those words Lily. I understand what you are saying. My mind is struggling to place itself with these new ways of thinking and fights to hold on to the familiar but I am trying very hard. I'm really trying. I also hope that one day I can feel more loving towards myself. And also towards others. I want to feel free and brave enough to love another.

Hugs Lily and again, thank you for your support. I will keep your words in my mind and keep trying. xxx